[achampio21]

Other than my parents made me, I don't think about some guy in the sky waving his hand and all life appeared. I don't sit around and wonder where we all came from, I go out and live life and share living with others. Life isn't that complicated in my world; I control my life. :)

No but you did evade my question. You never told me how you believe we got here you simply stated how you Don't believe we got here.

[NeedKarma]

I answered your question. We got here because our parents made us. I also added that how I don't think about how man started by evolution is the best bet so far.

[achampio21]

Okay. Well I guess I want to know how you believe the very first human or organism or speck of dirt or whatever got here. Or do you just not think about that because no one has figured it out yet as far as proof of no higher power or whatever?

I guess I want to know how non-believers explain life's existence when they are asked about it. How do you explain how the very first anything was created?

[NeedKarma]

I answered already - we don't know but we don't attribute it to an unseen force.

[achampio21]

Okay. You never said that you didn't know all you said is "I don't sit around and wonder where we all came from..."

So "We don't know" is a better answer for me. Thank you.

[firmbeliever]

Champ,
Regarding atheist views on life
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/spirit...s+dont+believe

[Fr_Chuck]

Part of the issues is that just within Christianity, there are 100's of different types of but almost all have some basic faiths on Jesus and what he did, and what happened to his body.

The issue after that is except for Islam, none of the other include Jesus at all, some may allow him to be a prophet of another religion but many will like to claim he does not exist.

So if you ask anyone but a christian, to them christ did not even exist, so there is no body, So if you are asking about Jesus, the only place to find the truth about him is in the bible.

[De Maria]

Jesushelper76's view on this is a reply from a Christian perspective , and is based on - as he confirms himself - his Christian belief.

The non-religious facts are that Jesus's origins are highly questionable,.
:)

Non-religious?

Aren't you contradicting yourself? You just objected to Fr. Chuck because he commented on behalf of the Christian perspective on this religious board. But you are commenting on a religious board on behalf of the non-religious. Therefore, who has more rights here on this other religious forum, the non-religious or Fr. Chuck?

Oh, and non-religious opinions are not facts. They are simply opinions.

Sincerely,

De Maria

If Jesus was born to a human woman and lived as a human and then died and was then of spirit... where did his body go?

Was then a spirit? Jesus was spiritualized in His resurrected body, but He was not a Spirit:

John 21:24 Now Thomas, one of the twelve, who is called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said to him: We have seen the Lord. But he said to them: Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you. 27 Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing. 28 Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God. 29 Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.

Jesus proved to Thomas that His body was real by putting his finger in His wound.

Luke 24 36 Now whilst they were speaking these things, Jesus stood in the midst of them, and saith to them: Peace be to you; it is I, fear not. 37 But they being troubled and frightened, supposed that they saw a spirit. 38 And he said to them: Why are you troubled, and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 See my hands and feet, that it is I myself; handle, and see: for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as you see me to have. 40 And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 But while they yet believed not, and wondered for joy, he said: Have you any thing to eat? 42 And they offered him a piece of a broiled fish, and a honeycomb. 43 And when he had eaten before them, taking the remains, he gave to them.

If anyone else died and left their body behind it would take years to decompose... so where is Jesus' body...

But Jesus didn't leave His body behind. According to Scripture, Jesus ascended into heaven in His human body:

Acts 1 6 They therefore who were come together, asked him, saying: Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 But he said to them: It is not for you to know the times or moments, which the Father hath put in his own power: 8 But you shall receive the power of the Holy Ghost coming upon you, and you shall be witnesses unto me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and Samaria, and even to the uttermost part of the earth. 9 And when he had said these things, while they looked on, he was raised up: and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they were beholding him going up to heaven, behold two men stood by them in white garments.

11 Who also said: Ye men of Galilee, why stand you looking up to heaven? This Jesus who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come, as you have seen him going into heaven. 12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount that is called Olivet, which is nigh Jerusalem, within a sabbath day's journey.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[Credendovidis]

Non-religious? .... Therefore, who has more rights here on this other religious forum, the non-religious or Fr. Chuck?

Nobody and no view have more "rights" here or anywhere else. Believe whatever you like to believe. But whatever you BELIEVE , realize that it is BELIEF. It only becomes a fact once you provide objective supporting evidence for whatever you claim to be "true" !

Oh, and non-religious opinions are not facts. They are simply opinions.

Opinions are never facts. They are opinions. The difference between religious and non-religious views is that the first is based on BELIEF only, and the non-religious views are often based on facts and/or the lack of facts that should be provided for religious views - if believers claim them to be "the one and only truth".

The reality is that believers claim something without being capable of providing even the smallest iota of objective supporting evidence for what they claim. Ever.
Non-believers do not have to prove that the religious CLAIMS are incorrect. Claims are just claims, and so far I have never seen any objective supporting evidence for any of the basic and essential religious claims by religions. Like the Christian-Judean God exists, the Bible is based on God's words, Jesus was the son of God, etc.

Draw your own conclusion from that...

Link to : Some good reading on belief in God/Gods and the reality of belief.

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This lead's Question :

If Jesus was born to a human woman and lived as a human and then died and was then of spirit... where did his body go?

Reaction De Maria :

Was then a spirit? Jesus was spiritualized in His resurrected body, but He was not a Spirit ....

That is nittpicking. The question is clear and straightforward. You are deliberately sidestepping the question.

But Jesus didn't leave His body behind. According to Scripture, Jesus ascended into heaven in His human body

"According to Scripture" : that is BELIEF. Can you provide objective supporting evidence that that really happened? Again you are deliberately sidestepping the question.

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... if you ask anyone but a christian, to them christ did not even exist, so there is no body, So if you are asking about Jesus, the only place to find the truth about him is in the bible.

Christ never existed. Christ is not a person, but a title.
Jesus of Nazareth may have existed, but there is no real objective supported evidence for that. Even for that !

This non-theist is hardly interested if Jesus existed or not. Your statement is (therefore) incorrect. And I am not the only one : for me and most other non-theists the only thing that is relevant is that there is no objective supporting evidence for :

1 - God/Gods exist.
2 - The Christian - Judean God exists, and has the powers as claimed in the Bible.
3 - God is the real author of the Bible.
4 - Jesus is the son of God.
5 - Jesus with God and the Holly Spirit are one and the same.

As to the original question in this lead : Jesus' body is claimed to have gone to heaven.
There is no objective supporting evidence for that claim.
It is based on BELIEF and nothing else.

You stated : the only place to find the truth about him is in the bible.
That is what you BELIEVE... But is it the truth? Can you prove that with objective supporting evidence ?
.

[Moparbyfar]

My belief achamp according to the scriptures, is that Jesus fleshly body was taken by God after his burial in the tomb, fulfilling the words at Psa 16:10 - "You will not leave my body in Sheol. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit." If God had left Jesus fleshly body in the tomb 1) his disciples would not have fully understood him being raised up if they saw his body as they didn't yet fully appreciate spiritual things. 2) it was likely that his body or parts of it would be used for worship or exploitation.
During the next 40 days that he appeared in fleshly bodies, they were obviously different to his original as Mary didn't recognise him and neither did two of his disciples while walking to Emmaus, although the body he appeared to Thomas in was very similar with holes in the hands and side for that was the only way Thomas said he would believe in Jesus being alive again.
Whether he took his physical body to heaven is answered by Paul who states in 1 Cor 15:44,50 "It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body...flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom." In other words, only spirit beings with spiritual bodies can reside in the heavens. Human bodies are intended for the earth.
Incidentally, there seems to be well over 30,000 different denominations who claim to be christian, which makes up 1/3rd of the worlds population. Hindus and muslims make up another 3rd and the rest are non-religious, Buddhist, Jewish, new-religionist etc.
Good onya for being curious! Never hurts to ask questions right? :)

[Credendovidis]

achampio21 posted the following question :

If Jesus was born to a human woman and lived as a human and then died and was then of spirit... where did his body go?

Once that question became really interesting when RESPECTFUL but different views from all directions were added, the question and all reactions to it suddenly disappeared from this board.

Does this really suggest board censorship ? There was nothing that gave reason for this action! Let's hope this lead was accidental unintended deleted...

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My reply (post 32) contained reactions to 3 statements : De Maria , achampio21 , and Fr_Chuck.

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Non-religious? .... Therefore, who has more rights here on this other religious forum, the non-religious or Fr. Chuck?

Nobody and no view have more "rights" here or anywhere else. Believe whatever you like to believe. But whatever you BELIEVE , realize that it is BELIEF. It only becomes a fact once you provide objective supporting evidence for whatever you claim to be "true" !

Oh, and non-religious opinions are not facts. They are simply opinions.

Opinions are never facts. They are just opinions. The difference between religious and non-religious views is that the first is based on BELIEF only, and the non-religious views are often based on facts and/or the lack of facts that should be provided for religious views - if believers claim them to be "the one and only truth".

The reality is that believers claim something as the "one and only truth" without being capable of providing even the smallest iota of objective supporting evidence for what they claim. Ever.
Non-believers do not have to prove that the religious CLAIMS are incorrect. Claims are just claims, and so far I have never seen any objective supporting evidence for any of the basic and essential religious claims by religions. Like the Christian-Judean God exists, the Bible is based on God's words, Jesus was the son of God, etc.

Draw your own conclusion from that...
Some good reading on belief in God/Gods and the reality of belief.

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Originally Posted by achampio21 : "If Jesus was born to a human woman and lived as a human and then died and was then of spirit... where did his body go?"
Reaction

... Was then a spirit? Jesus was spiritualized in His resurrected body, but He was not a Spirit ....

My reaction to De Maria : That is nittpicking. The question is clear and straightforward. You are deliberately sidestepping the question.

... But Jesus didn't leave His body behind. According to Scripture, Jesus ascended into heaven in His human body

My reaction to De Maria : "According to Scripture" : that is BELIEF. Can you provide objective supporting evidence that that really happened?
Again you are deliberately sidestepping the question.

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Fr_Chuck (Super Moderator) stated in that lead on 1 June 2008 , 11:46 PM (post #29) :

Part of the issues is that just within Christianity, there are 100's of different types of but almost all have some basic faiths on Jesus and what he did, and what happened to his body.
The issue after that is except for Islam, none of the other include Jesus at all, some may allow him to be a prophet of another religion but many will like to claim he does not exist.
So if you ask anyone but a christian, to them christ did not even exist, so there is no body, So if you are asking about Jesus, the only place to find the truth about him is in the bible.

My reaction to Fr_Chuck :
Christ never existed. Christ is not a person, but a title.
Jesus of Nazareth may have existed, but there is no real objective supported evidence for that. Even for that !

This non-theist is hardly interested if Jesus existed or not. Your statement is therefore incorrect. And I am not the only one : for most other non-theists the only thing that is relevant is that there is no objective supporting evidence for :

1 - God/Gods exist.
2 - The Christian - Judean God exists, and has the powers as claimed in the Bible.
3 - God is the real author of the Bible.
4 - Jesus is the son of God.
5 - Jesus with God and the Holly Spirit are one and the same.

As to the original question in this lead : Jesus' body is claimed to have gone to heaven.
There is no objective supporting evidence for that claim.
It is based on BELIEF and nothing else.

You stated : the only place to find the truth about him is in the bible.
That is what you BELIEVE... But is it the truth? Can you prove that with objective supporting evidence ?
.
.
.
So referring to this last reaction to Fr_Chuck :
.
As stated : Jesus may have existed as a real person but Christ was not a person but a title
What is your opinion ?

[Curlyben]

Once that question became really interesting when RESPECTFUL but different views from all directions were added, the question and all reactions to it suddenly disappeared from this board.

Does this really suggest board censorship ? There was nothing that gave reason for this action! Let's hope this lead was accidental unintended deleted ...

Don't start with this rubbish!
The thread was simply MOVED here as it has turned into a discussion.

I await your apology.


Also I would like to clear up the rights comment.

There are ZERO rights conferred, either implicitly or implied, anywhere on AMHD.

ALL members are free to post anywhere on the site, as long as said posts comply with AMHD's TOS.

[Credendovidis]

Don't start with this rubbish !!
The thread was simply MOVED here as it has turned into a discussion.

I await your apology.

I have no problem apologizing for that. Sorry ! Had you left somewhere a note that the thread was moved, my comments would even have been understanding and supportive. How could anyone know that you MOVED it ? There was nowhere any information about that move !

Also I would like to clear up the rights comment.
There are ZERO rights conferred, either implicitly or implied, anywhere on AMHD.
ALL members are free to post anywhere on the site, as long as said posts comply with AMHD's TOS.

With all respect : that is only partially true. At several occations I have been warned that my respectful replies to christian questions on the Christianity board were not welcome, because I am not a Christian. Is there a different rule for that board, perhaps?

[Curlyben]

All links to this thread would automatically direct people here so no move announcement is needed.

Also:

Also I would like to clear up the rights comment.
There are ZERO rights conferred, either implicitly or implied, anywhere on AMHD.
ALL members are free to post anywhere on the site, as long as said posts comply with AMHD's TOS.

With all respect : that is only partially true. At several occations I have been warned that my respectful replies to christian questions on the Christianity board were not welcome, because I am not a Christian. Is there a different rule for that board, perhaps?

Reread EXACTLY what I have written on this subject and DON'T imply things that aren't there.

[achampio21]

Okay. Awesome. So far I have found out this much...

In the christian religion Jesus died on the cross, was buried, rose from the dead and his body and all went to Heaven.

In atheist religion well I pretty much have figured that they don't believe in anything. They live day to day and believe they can for the most part control their destiny.

I have also found that religion is a pretty vague and VERY broad subject.

As I stated earlier I believe in a higher power. God is the title I choose. I believe in Him for my own reasons. The bible to me is a man made structure that just like any man-made structure has been altered, changed, and made to fit the conditions of a particular time-frame. And with time will break down just like any other man-made structure. Now I'm not saying the whole thing is a sham, but I have serious doubts in a majority of it's content. Just like how the old and new testament contradict themselves.

I think everyone should and can believe in whatever they want. But I have a lot of questions and doubts that talking to preachers and the like haven't answered. Just about every christian I talk to wants to kind of walk around my questions and direct me to the bible. But I know I have found contracdicting scripture on several subjects. Where it will say one thing in one part and the opposite in another part. Not to mention the bible itself is written like a legal agreement with any court is written... confusing. It can't just say...

God is God. Here is what He did. Here is what He made. Here is a son that He created. Here is what his son did. And now the same people that worshipped Him have had Him killed. Oh, and now He is alive again. And there He goes to be with God. But He will be back someday.

No it was written so 500 people could take it's meaning completely out of context and debate it and argue certain views. It was written so that you could 20 different religions all based on one freakin book. But every single one of them believe differently.

I just don't get it. I think it is perfectly OK for me to believe in God and not go to church and not give money to a church that will abuse it anyway. And I don't need everyone praying for me because if he hears everyone He can hear me by myself just fine.

So I don't know. I am just asking questions and getting feedback. I guess if the Christian faith believes that Jesus' body and all went up to Heaven my next questions would be: where is Heaven and how long until Jesus got there and if he was alive enough for people to touch him then he was still "alive" when he went to Heaven right. And if that is the case then can he walk in Heaven or did he change to a spirit when he got there?where in the bible does it answer those questions? I mean it can go on and on.



Okay, I found this on the board that firmbeliever directed me too. And I really liked it so I am copying it here because it won't let me quote user that way... or I just don't know how yet.. lol


Originally posted by michaelb on different board for different question:

"Why would you believe? There have been so many gods over the course of humanity that we can't even keep count. Why does anyone of them deserve your worship more than the other."

[firmbeliever]

Okay. Awesome. So far I have found out this much...


God is God. Here is what He did. Here is what He made. Here is a son that He created. Here is what his son did. And now the same people that worshipped Him have had Him killed. Oh, and now He is alive again. And there He goes to be with God. But He will be back someday.


Okay, I found this on the board that firmbeliever directed me too.

I am glad you found that thread.:)

Just to let you know that my answers are from an Islamic viewpoint (sorry forgot to mention that in my earlier post).

[achampio21]

Thanks firmbeliever. Islamic is one religion I am not at all familiar with. But I am interested in all of them.

To De Maria:

You stated that all the previous gods never had eyewitness accounts and Jesus had many. Well I have this comment on the eyewitness thing...

You go to Wal-mart and pick up any tabloid and I can guarantee you that you will find a bunch of eyewitness accounts to the lockness monster, to alien encounters, to mermaids, to babies with five heads, etc etc. Why should we believe in the eyewitness accounts that Jesus existed and rose and that he was alive again because someone put their finger in the hole in his hand and then he went up to heaven, but not that unicorns and mermaids and lockness monsters and alien encounters and five headed babies aren't real? Those all have "eyewitness" accounts too.

And I am starting to get the feeling that firmbeliever is the only that is still talking to me on this thread...
Didn't want to start a right or wrong debate.. just wanted each person's opinions and beliefs. No one is right or wrong. Everyone just feels they way they feel. That goes with everything. I don't like cheese, but you might. I don't believe in same-sex or interracial relationships, but you might. Who cares. Let's just talk about it and maybe we will learn some things we never knew. :)

[De Maria]

Nobody and no view have more "rights" here or anywhere else. Believe whatever you like to believe. But whatever you BELIEVE , realize that it is BELIEF. It only becomes a fact once you provide objective supporting evidence for whatever you claim to be "true" !

I believe Fr. Chuck is a moderator on this forum. What gives you more say than he as to what is acceptable on this forum? Are you a moderator also? And if so, do you outrank Fr. Chuck?

Opinions are never facts. They are opinions. The difference between religious and non-religious views is that the first is based on BELIEF only, and the non-religious views are often based on facts

Wrong on both counts. Religious people base their beliefs on many facts.

And, non-religious people frequently don't believe that God exists. Yet, they can't prove that God exists. That is an opinion, not a fact.

and/or the lack of facts that should be provided for religious views - if believers claim them to be "the one and only truth".

This is speculative. What believers should provide is up to them to decide. It is not written anywhere that we must provide anything.

The reality is that believers claim something without being capable of providing even the smallest iota of objective supporting evidence for what they claim. Ever.

Not true. As believers in God, we see a wonderful world which presence can only be explained by the wisdom of God.

And non-believers in God, actually believe whatever comes down the pike. I don't know what variation of non-belief you subscribe to, so I'll withhold comment until you divulge your beliefs.

Non-believers do not have to prove that the religious CLAIMS are incorrect.

But they do need to prove that their claims are correct.

Claims are just claims, and so far I have never seen any objective supporting evidence for any of the basic and essential religious claims by religions. Like the Christian-Judean God exists, the Bible is based on God's words, Jesus was the son of God, etc.

That is fine. It isn't because you haven't seen it. It is because you reject it.

Draw your own conclusion from that...

Link to : Some good reading on belief in God/Gods and the reality of belief.

Study the doctrine of suffering, it will tell you why God doesn't heal amputees:

Catholic Culture : Library : Problem Of Suffering Reconsidered, The

This lead's Question :
Reaction De Maria :

That is nittpicking. The question is clear and straightforward. You are deliberately sidestepping the question.

Not so, it is a correction of a false assumption. The OP assumes that Jesus came back as a Spirit. But Jesus Himself says He is not a Spirit only, but a Spirit with a body.

"According to Scripture" : that is BELIEF.

True, but that is belief supported by evidence. Eyewitness testimony is considered evidence in every court in the world. Scripture, the Gospels in this case, are the eyewitness testimony of Jesus' contemporaries who witnessed His Resurrection.

Can you provide objective supporting evidence that that really happened?

Again, eyewitness testimony substantiated by four witnesses is completely objective. You consider it subjective only because the finding disagrees with your subjective rejection of the evidence.

Again you are deliberately sidestepping the question.

Nope. I corrected the false assumption and then I addressed the question.

Christ never existed.

Certainly, if you believe the evidence, He did and does exist.

Christ is not a person, but a title.

Both actually. Jesus, the Christ, is the anointed One. He is a person.

Of course, the word Christ, is also a title which is given the Messiah who happens to be Jesus.

Jesus of Nazareth may have existed, but there is no real objective supported evidence for that. Even for that !

Actually, there are literally volumes. Besides the volumes in the Bible, there are the customs and cultures who have preserved his place of birth, of suffering, of preaching, of crucifixion and much other information to substantiate the written and oral accounts.

And there are the volumes written based on His teaching by those whom He taught and those taught by them.

This non-theist is hardly interested if Jesus existed or not.

Really? You seem quite interested in disproving His existence.

Your statement is (therefore) incorrect.

Huh? You just said you weren't interested and Fr. Chuck said:

to them christ did not even exist, so there is no body,

So if you aren't interested, why do you care?

And I am not the only one : for me and most other non-theists the only thing that is relevant is that there is no objective supporting evidence for :

1 - God/Gods exist.
2 - The Christian - Judean God exists, and has the powers as claimed in the Bible.
3 - God is the real author of the Bible.
4 - Jesus is the son of God.
5 - Jesus with God and the Holly Spirit are one and the same.

There is objective evidence for all of that. You just don't accept the evidence. Two different things.

As to the original question in this lead : Jesus' body is claimed to have gone to heaven.
There is no objective supporting evidence for that claim.

Eyewitness testimony.

It is based on BELIEF

Everything is based on belief. You have your set of beliefs which includes your belief that Christ did not exist.

and nothing else.

And that describes your belief. You have a belief with no evidence because you reject the evidence which is provided.

You stated : the only place to find the truth about him is in the bible.
That is what you BELIEVE... But is it the truth? Can you prove that with objective supporting evidence ?
.

Well, the Bible is already objective evidence. But we also have the Church and the many teachings of Christ which have been carried by Tradition. And the artifacts left from His time on earth and many other things which we can discuss.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

To De Maria:

Hi

You stated that all the previous gods never had eyewitness accounts and Jesus had many. Well I have this comment on the eyewitness thing...

You go to Wal-mart and pick up any tabloid and I can guarantee you that you will find a bunch of eyewitness accounts to the lockness monster, to alien encounters, to mermaids, to babies with five heads, etc etc. Why should we believe in the eyewitness accounts that Jesus existed and rose and that he was alive again because someone put their finger in the hole in his hand and then he went up to heaven, but not that unicorns and mermaids and lockness monsters and alien encounters and five headed babies aren't real? Those all have "eyewitness" accounts too.

Hm? Hard to explain.

First I should tell you that my Catholic faith teaches me to have faith in other human beings as well as in God.

2 Timothy 2 2 And the things which thou hast heard of me by many witnesses, the same commend to faithful men, who shall be fit to teach others also.

Therefore, I don't automatically discount something because it sounds incredible. So, I believe that many of those things which people report to have seen may be "real".

So, lets compare the eyewitness testimony of the Gospels to the eyewitness testimony of these phenomenon.

1. The Apostles spent at least three years walking and talking with Jesus. They didn't just see Him in a glimpse. They knew Him intimately. They didn't just witness one miracle. They witnessed almost all of His miracles and they participated in many of them as well.

So, its kind of like comparing your knowledge of your parents, whom you lived with, vs some stranger who passed by and saw your two adults standing outside your house.

Does that make sense?

2. The motive. The Apostles went to their graves and never denied Christ. Either they were all crazy or they were telling the truth. I vote they were telling the truth.

How many of these eyewitnesses in these magazines do you think might be banking on a bit of profit for a harmless story about something out of the ordinary?

3. Why do I believe they were telling the truth. Because I have read their teachings, they have affected and changed my life and I have FAITH in them. In other words, just as I have faith that my parents love me, I have faith that the Apostles love me and want the best for me.

4. Finally, I believe many of those people who saw weird things are telling the truth. Many of them are not profiting from their witness and too many of them are saying it for it all to be made up. Besides, in this high tech world, many of them have footage of what they saw. Do you remember the ufos in Mexico City?

The one I remember was live footage on Mexican television from different cameras at the same time and showed the objects sitting still and moving. And this occurred for days in a row.

Were all these people faking the same thing at the same time? Why? So I believe something was there. Whether it was from alien technology or some secret human technology I can't tell you.

So, the wise saying in the Scripture is relevant here:
1 Thessalonians 5 21 But prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[achampio21]

Okay. Good point.

I guess I just wonder about the writings in the bible. Because I know for a fact that the leaders of churches can and do abuse religion to profit just like some of the people in the tabloids. So I just wonder if some of the bible is exaggerated to benefit someone. It IS possible, but I am finding out that basically the christian religion is based on faith and the scripture. But you have to have faith that the scripture you read is real or it means nothing.

And what I think I know of catholics is that they focus more on the saints and Mary and not so much on Jesus. Is that right? And why is there such a broad difference between catholics and christians if you both basically believe in the same things?

HAHA! I just realized something reading back over my posts!! I kind of sound like a 4 or 5 year old asking mommy and daddy how babies get here!!
Sorry. I just thought laughing at myself would be funny for everyone!! :))