[Knucklez]

hi peeps.

just remodeling my kitchen now.. have removed the counter and original sink and cabinets. The new sink will be installed in same place as original, which is right under the window.

original kitchen sink on main floor of house did NOT have a vent, so I am adding one.

the sister'd 2x4 is necessary because the 2x4 that is there now does NOT extend all the way to the ceiling. It just runs up the side of the window and then stops.

both the original 2x4 running vertical on right side of the window will require a brace near the bottom so that the 2" vent can run horizontal THROUGH the studs (see picture)

the vent line is in neon green.. the captions says "drain extends to roof" but of course, I meant the VENT extends to the roof

what do you think of vent solution?

[Knucklez]

Second Question:

just to confirm... about the rest of the kitchen sink plumbing..

I have a sink and a dishwasher in this kitchen.

from the sink, looking down the drain, the order of connection of things would be:

1) kitchen drain
2) stub for Dishwasher so it can share same drain
3) P-trap using screw connection on each end so it can come apart for clean-out purposes, trap installed 17" below sink
4) 2" T for vent connection

all plumbing of drain and vent is with 2" black ABS. i chose ABS because the rest of the house is done with ABS.

the drain line runs back to the main 4" ABS drain in the house in the basement. The main 4" waste line is some 20 ft. away from the kitchen! so i will slope the 2" kitchen drain at 1/4 per foot, for a total slope of 5" (round up to 6"). When I get close to the 4" drain, i will use 2 x 45 to angle the 2" kitchen drain so it can connect with the 4" main waste which is below the kitchen drain.

tapping into the main house drain involves a 4" fernco, and a 4"x2"x4" T to connect with kitchen drain. See picture here --> CLICK ME

[massplumber2008]

Hey Knucklez:

Hey... first... NO TEE FITTINGS downstairs off the 4" main...must connect into the 4" horizontal drain with a WYE fitting or a wye 1/8th combination fitting... but no tee fittings!

Then... kitchen sink needs a 2" waste line..BUT only an 1.5" vent!

If 4" in basement is cast iron on left (I see it is ABS on right) then I would prefer to see you use a shielded clmap over the fernco . The shielded clamp makes up for the difference in pipe thicknesses between plastic and cast iron. If both plastic then can just use a 4 banded clamp...see pics.

The sequence is sink, dw tailpece, and then trap that runs into the wall to be picked up by the horizontal drain line that connects into the SANITARY TEE fitting that goes down for waste and up (1.5") for vent...

Hope that made sense!

Get back to me with any questions! MARK

.

[Knucklez]

Wow, that's great advice.

I can see the problem now that you mention it.. the T will not work because the drain will fall straight down the 2" into the T and then splash and collect crap... it needs to be DIRECTED into the flow direction, hence the Y.

i thought the 2" vent seemed a little big... :)

The basement 4" waste line is ABS on both sides. i'll probably need to goto DESCO to find one of those specialty clamps you specified.. but i'll find it.

now... the trap... i think i was a bit misleading by speaking about a "P-trap". This gives you the impression that the trap exit will extend horizontal into the wall.. in my case it does not.

What I need is an S-trap... becaue the drain is directly below the floor. If I try to take the drain into the wall behind the sink I will not make it to the basement because that wall sits on a stone foundation. See my original picture? That galvenized drain (to be replaced with ABS) is about as close to the wall as it can get, that's how thick the house foundation is!

Can I even use an S-trap? I am in ontario canada...

Does this picture look better to you?

ps. i really appreciate your advice - how can i repay you!!

[massplumber2008]

Hey again... ;)

OK.. I got it now... but you still can use the PTRAP here...

In your picture you have the vent fitting coming off UNDER the TY fitting for the sink drain... (and an awful S-TRAP also)

Instead make it so the that the vent comes off the TOP of that ty fitting... instead of as a separate fitting UNDERNEATH the other fitting... (then can install ptrap on horizontal)

Then run that 1.5" vent into the wall... ;) and should be all set.

Hope that made sense... if not just let me know.

AND Knucklez, You are always so positive you don't owe me nothing for advice... just keep making it fun! Thank you.

[Knucklez]

You.. this website needs a place to document entire projects, not just ask/answer questions. I am documenting my DIY full kitchen reno elsewhere, but wish I had somewhere to post it at askmehelpdesk to help traffic flow & site interest.

Anyway...

I've redrawn the plan. Its looking much better

I) note the use of 2 sanitary Tees in the plan
ii) note the elimination of the S-trap in favour of the P-trap
iii) I think I might need one more 90 bend (not shown) to get the vent into the wall properly

[KISS]

Knucklez:

How did you draw that plan? I love the drawing.

[massplumber2008]

Hey K:

Almost done here!

I notice you have a 2x2x1.5" sanitary tee on the vertical going to kitchen sink....you really want a 2x1.5x2" sanitary tee... thereby feeding the 2" drain to sink and the 1.5" upward for the vent. You also want to use a ptrap with a full size union cleanout (called a union trap) or you want to add a full size 2" cleanout under the sink (this is code requirement).

Be aware also that after you install the 2" ptrap you will need to reduce it to 1.5" right out of the trap to pick up the dishwasher tailpiece and kitchen sink (so will need to add a 2x1.5" reducing, flush bushing and an 1.5" desanco transition fitting to your order list, too).

AND KNUCKLEZ... what did I say at my first post on this thread about TEE fittings in the horizontal drain line... hmmmm..?

Well...I said, "Hey... first... NO TEE FITTINGS downstairs off the 4" main... must connect into the 4" horizontal drain with a WYE fitting or a wye 1/8th combination fitting...but no tee fittings".

I am sure you remember now...:p ....Hey, seriously, everything looks good, just use fittings I recommended and you are all set!!

Also note that you CAN use a 3x1.5" sanitary TEE fitting in the attic to connect into the 3" vent just before penetrates the roof!!

And..if you want to be super thorough can add a 2" dandy cleanout just before this drain attaches to the main drain line.

And remember... hang pipe every 4 feet in basement.

And can use 2 45s or a long sweep 90 there at horizontal to vertical change (I read the tiny question next to the fitting, too... ;) ).

Let me know if need more... MARK

.

[Knucklez]

OK, now I can bring back all the wrong material I bought.. :)

All your points made sense to me (except the flush bushing.. but is a minor part). I included them in the drawing as best I can. Not sure how I ended up with the bad sanitary T going to 4" main... :eek: changed it back to your recommendation.

I am having trouble finding a 4 banded clamp. I'll have to check local plumbing distributor.

Otherwise... I probably spent more time drawing pictures than I will the entire assembly, which is perfect! Exactly as I like it, installed correctly the 1st time :cool:

Ps. I used paint.net to produce the pictures. Its free and available here . Hint, when adding images, select "paste as new layer" and then in the layer properties select "multiply" - this makes it look nicer with transperency. The added pictures were all from Google images (just searched for ABS fittings or P-trap etc.) I would have liked to use Google sketchup so I can draw it all in 3D superimposed over my camera photo of the actual room.. but didn't have time.. .

[massplumber2008]

Hey Knucklez:

Really are neat pictures for sure! Thanks for info.!

The 2"x1.5" flush bushing will fit INTO the 2" ptrap INLET (thereby reducing the 2" trap to 1.5")... from that comes the DW drain connector, etc.

The 4 band clamp is not required... anything that joins plastic to plastic is acceptable (just that the 4 band is best... but a two bander will be fine). The trick to using only one clamp on this install will be to cement the combo. Wye in place and then slide the pipe into place which occurs by you bending the rubber sleeve of 2 or 4 band clamp back upon itself (SS clamp is back AWAY from rubber sleeve), sliding the pipe into place and then unbending the sleeve back onto pipe... then sliding SS clamp over sleeve and tightening appropriately! I hope that made sense..?

If you use a two band fernco (without SS shield... not code approved!. see pic.)... :( the bending of sleeve back on itself will not apply... just slide fernco back and forth)

The combination wye looks great (could also just be a WYE fitting... just no sanitary tees... ;) )! That dandy is also good!

Good luck Knucklez... looks perfect!

Mark.

[Knucklez]

I've seen the 2 band fernco at HD, in fact that was what I was going to use. I see in my basement it is used elsewhere for similar function on 4" main.

how is the 2 band fernco NOT code? what else would you use it for?

the only other option at HD that is rubber 4" is something that looks exactly like a 2 band fernco, but it is shrouded in metal. I think this is for attaching plastic with metal, so I was not going to use it since I am attaching ABS to ABS.

Knucklez

[massplumber2008]

Hi...

OK... good questions...

The shielded clamps are preferred here BY CODE... see picture below (SS band around entire sleeve).

The 2 band fernco couplings I put up at last post are not allowed anywhere that I know of. Although sold everywhere... they are primarily intended for underground plumbing... and quick repair plumbing... and even then most states don't allow them when actually filing for permits for jobs.

They expect a licensed plumber to do the work... AND THAT DOESN'T INCLUDE USING 2 BAND FERNCOS (pic. At last post)... as a minimum.. they want the shielded kind. I prefer the 4 band clamps (see pic.)... and most inspectors allow them when going from plastic pipe to plastic pipe!

Check with a local plumbing supply house. You are looking for MISSION clamps OR at home depot they call them FERNCO PROFLEX CLAMPS (see pic... says proflex on it... just to confuse you... ;) I swear! )

Let me know if need more...

.

[Knucklez]

Thanks for the tips. Couldn't do this project without you!

Please check out the full kitchen reno... I'm right in the middle of it, planning out the plumbing

See HERE

[Knucklez]

Unfortunately, the P-trap union does not come in 2" size from rona. they only had it in 1.5"

So everythign to do with the drain AFTER the p-trap will be 2"... funny how reno's go :p

Knucklez

[massplumber2008]

That's fine... just make sure to leave a full size 2" clean out under the sink... if you can... ;)