[Fr_Chuck]

I have been reading where the IRS has been investigating more churches for getting involved in Politics by indorcing canidates or by telling people to vote for people that have certain beleifs ( and other reasons) that violate IRS rules and regulatoins.

Does this not violate the churches constitutional rights, since the IRS is established by Congress, so the laws and rules the IRS has are endorced by Congress since they created the IRS.

So if they pass laws regulting and restricting religion is this not unconstitutional. Should not churches be free to give their opinions on political matters.

[fredg]

Hi,
Many churches do give their opinions, from the pulpit as well, on many different political opinions.
I am sure some of the larger churches will bring things like this to court, sooner or later, depending on the actions of the IRS and other Gov't departments.
I agree with you that churches should have the constitutional right to give their own opinions on anything; ranging from abortion to who to support in the next local elections, based on spiritual and religious beliefs.

[mfpaul]

I do not know where and how I can post message though so many tries I did . Hence please forgive my writing here . All I want to know is that :
If one people is in trouble due to political reason and wants to move to another country , how can one do ? Which organization should one contact ?appreciate your great help .

mfpaul

[CaptainForest]

i do not know where and how i can post message though so many tries i did . hence please forgive my writting here . all i want to know is that :
if one people is in trouble due to political reason and wants to move to another country , how can one do ? which organization should one contact ?appreciate your great help .

mfpaul

You can look into refuge status.

Type it into Google with the country of destination and you will find the necessary information.

Going through immigration is also another way.

[mfpaul]

Well , I entered the related words in google.com and found no the right web site I wanted to get . Any people who can provide me with direct website involving migration due to political reason would be very highly appreciated .

[CaptainForest]

well , i entered the related words in google.com and found no the right web site i wanted to get . any people who can provide me with direct website involving migration due to political reason would be very highly appreciated .

To what country?

[mfpaul]

Oceanian continential

[CaptainForest]

Is

oceanian continential

actually a country?

Where do you wish to migrate to. Where do you wish to live in the future?

Let's assume you wish to live in Canada.

This website will tell you all you need to know about coming to Canada as a refugee: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/index.html

[tomder55]

If churches really wanted to be consistent they should forego their 501c3 status . Do you really think thax exemption comes without strings attached ? Romans 13:7 clearly says to pay your taxes, so why should the stocks, bonds, and commercial real estate of churches be tax exempt ? It should not even be an issue . Progressive and Conservative churches all have a political agenda they promote . I have no problem with either . They are a part of the community and should have a say in the governance and decisions . But it would be better that when say Conservative Church activists campaign from the pulpit that they are not violating provisions of an unneeded subsidy from the government . It is unfair also to the taxpayer who does not share the beliefs of the church to subsidize it . "Almighty God has created the mind free. ... to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
Thomas Jefferson

Eliminating the tax exempt status would also free us of those self serving charlatans who purchase their credentials and set up shop as modern day Elmer Gantry's for the purpose of the financial gain .

[NeedKarma]

I don't get it, they allow lobbyists to pay money to politicians but won't allow the church to endorse a candidate? Sounds like something that deserves a revolt. Lobbying leads to corrupt politicians and, IMO, should not be allowed.

[FREDLHRA]

When the Church applies for and accepts 501c3 status, the rules and regulations of the State incorporation go along with the territory. The Church is not forced into this State incorporation, it is strictly voluntary. When the Church incorporates, like it or not, it is doing business just like anyone else.

I believe God would have anyone stand by their word. And the rules for 501c3 incorporation are spelled out in the IRS rules. The Church fell into this trap out of greed.

Matthew 22:21 "They say unto Him, Caesars. Then saith He unto them, render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's".

[Starman]

The real issue from a Christian church standpoint is where to draw the line between merely expressing a Christian opinion and going so far that the church effectively becomes part of the world of which Jesus told his disciples to separate themselves. During Nazi Germany's existence this fine line was crossed.

[talaniman]

Why should the church get exemptions and not play by the rules of those laws that were written to monetarily enrich that same church? Who in the church makes political policy and does the congregation vote on this or not? I think the church no matter the religious affiliation should stay out of politics and minister to the needs of the people they serve,or else pay taxes like everyone else!:cool: :eek:

[jduke44]

I am going to ride on both sides of the fence on this. No, I am not running for public office, it's just I can see both sides of the argument to be true. I think for rthe sake of non-profit organizations, since they don't make any income, should be allowed to stay tax exempt. Yes, it would help to pay the taxes if the property they owned were taxed but this is allowed by the IRS so let them take advantage of it. Talking on the other side of my mouth, I do agree that the IRS made certain restrictions for this tax exempt so organizations need to abide by it -- churches included. I looked up these regulations and from what I see these aren't too hard to follow.

I agree with talaniman about the churches ministering to the people they serve and I will go one step furthur -- the community.

I am not sure if I am missing something, but these regulations specifically say not to endorse on the pulpit, signs on property, giving preferential treatment to candidates at functions, and so forth. It doesn't say a leader couldn't give their opinion any where else. I think the IRS doesn't want influentual leaders persuading the people they lead to vote a certain way so that benefits the organization.

I did agree with Need in the beginning of this post, and I still do, but the law is the law. I didn't know the extent of what was going on here.

[Fr_Chuck]

Are you in congress jduke44, I think I heard Kennedy saying something like that last week.

But really thank you all very much, it was nice to have a discussion over this issue

[jduke44]

I was thinking of running for NY governor this year. :D

Your very welcome.

[rorelam]

From what I know, churches have the right to state their opinions about any topic, this includes politics. But what they cannot do is to make people vote for certain candidate.