Check out some similar questions!

topgun · May 5, 2008, 08:10 AM

My question involves a traffic accident in the State of: Massachusettes

I was driving behind a mini-van when the driver stopped just before a pedestrian crossing. I stopped behind that car as well with at least a 4 feet gap between the two cars. Without any indicator light signal, the driver of the other car started reversing to park into an open spot. I honked a warning but the other car ended up hitting my right front bumper. There are minor scratches on my car and a scrape on the other car's bumper.

The driver of the other car insists that I am at fault because I came too close to her car. She says insurance companies would view this as a case of rear car responsbility. I feel that she did not give any indication (blinker lights or parking signal) of reversing to park which resulted in the accident. We would like to avoid going to insurance companies to settle this, so I would like to know the opinions of the members of this forum?

Thanks!

ScottGem · May 5, 2008, 08:14 AM

You were stopped and she hit you. She is at fault. No question about it.

The question is whether you can prove it.

topgun · May 5, 2008, 08:29 AM

Thanks for your reply Scott. I do not have a police report but my wife was a witness. I was concerned that is this matter goes to insurance then who would they consider at fault and wanted to get expert opinions before I talk to an insurance agent.

Are you aware of any official rules that require drivers to display indicators before they park?

Thanks.
Saurabh

ScottGem · May 5, 2008, 08:34 AM

I believe that when a car goes into reverse, its brake lights are supposed to light. Now you have, again, an issue of proving those lights didn't work. They may be fixed by now. Without a police report, the other driver can claim you hit her. Your wife's testimony will probably not be taken.

I would call your insurance company immediately and report it, then get their advice.

twinkiedooter · May 5, 2008, 08:51 AM

Improper backing on her part. She hit you - improper backing.

topgun · May 5, 2008, 08:52 AM

Thanks for your reply twinkiedooter

KISS · May 5, 2008, 08:55 AM

ScottGem:

The white back-up lights are supposed to light. You can't move if the brake lights are on.

ScottGem · May 5, 2008, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by KeepItSimpleStupid

ScottGem:

The white back-up lights are supposed to light. You can't move if the brake lights are on.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew something was supposed to light up warnng that the car was backing up. But since I've never watched myself backing up, who remembers? ;)

topgun · May 5, 2008, 09:01 AM

So if I understand, you guys are saying that I could be at fault if her backing lights came on and I did not react early enough?

JudyKayTee · May 5, 2008, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by topgun

So if I understand, you guys are saying that I could be at fault if her backing lights came on and I did not react early enough?

I don't know what anyone else is thinking but if it was as you said - she at a total stop, you at a total stop behind her (no matter what the distance is between the two of you) and she backed into you - she is at fault.

No question -

It is not your job to back up when you see her backup lights go on - I can't recall if you blew the horn the warn her but that is your responsibility, at least in NYS. She's not supposed to drive in any direction - frontwards, backwards, sideways for that matter - unless it's safe and obviously it wasn't safe and the path wasn't clear for her.

One word of caution - I have seen several of these and by the time I got into things the first driver claimed the second driver rear ended her car, no mention at all about car #1 backing up. Depending on the damage I would go to the insurance company and not try to work it out yourself. (Your wife as a witness will carry little weight; she is presumed to be prejudiced on your side.)

amricca · May 5, 2008, 09:58 AM

You should have called the police when it happened and tried to get a witness who saw it, if there were any. Now it will be between your insurance companies and it could go either way. As Judy states, if the other driver claims you re-ended them, then it will be your word against theirs.

ScottGem · May 5, 2008, 10:09 AM

Judy hit on what I've been saying. Given the circumstances as you related it there is no way your at fault. If one car is stopped and the other moving the moving car is at fault, end of story. The problem is proving it.

Let me relate a recent incident with my daughter. She was stopped in a parking lot waiting for the driveway to clear. Another car passed he on her left and made a right turn into the driveway in front of her. He clipped her car as he did so. However, he claimed that she moved and, in actuality she hit him. The insurance company (same carrier) decided there was no evidence to support either party, so they put it at 50% liability so each liability policy had to pay half the other's deductible and each collision policy paid the rest of the repair.

So, even though you state that you were stopped and she backed into you, you have to prove it. If she claims that you rear ended her, you have nothing, besides your wife's testimony to prove it and that's not going to be enough.

I'll give you one more instance of an accident I witnessed. I had just made a turn into the aisle of a parking lot. I saw two cars start to back out of spaces. They were exactly opposite each other and I saw they were going to back right into each other. I started hitting my horn, hoping it would cause them to stop and look around. One car did stop, the other didn't. The driver of the car that stopped was a young girl, maybe 19 or 20 and was visibly upset as she exchanged info with the other driver. I felt sorry for her, especially since it hadn't been her fault so I gave her my name and number as a witness. A couple of days later, his insurer called me and I related the story. The adjuster told me, that with my account of the incident, they had to hold him 100% at fault. But without my account it would have been 50-50.

So the best you can do is report it to your insurer and let them handle it. They will deal with the other driver's insurer.

topgun · May 5, 2008, 10:15 AM

Hi folks -

Your advice is sound. I am going to get a damage estimate today. Based on the damages I believe it should be under $500 deductible. If that is the case, then I'll try to settle because the other driver did not want to involve insurance. If the repair cost is significant, I'll contact my insurer today.

I'll keep you posted, for those who are interested to know how it pans out.
Thanks.

JudyKayTee · May 5, 2008, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by topgun

Hi folks -

Your advice is sound. I am going to get a damage estimate today. Based on the damages I believe it should be under $500 deductible. If that is the case, then I'll try to settle because the other driver did not want to involve insurance. If the repair cost is significant, I'll contact my insurer today.

I'll keep you posted, for those who are interested to know how it pans out.
Thanks.

Number one statement following an accident that should make your hair stand on end: "I don't want to involve my insurance company." Translation usually is: "I'm at fault and I don't want my company to have to pay." The driver who is NOT at fault is usually repeating, "Let's call the Police. Give me your insurance card."

Let us know what happens -

KISS · May 5, 2008, 11:03 AM

Bottom line:

Don't get burned. Believe me, you will. It doesn't even matter if the driver has a prestigious job, like the principal of a high school.

twinkiedooter · May 5, 2008, 02:29 PM

The vehicle that hit you sustained less damage than your vehicle and also the angle involved was telling as well. A van can do much more damage than a car can when backing up. Also the van has hidden viewing blind spots so the woman probably didn't even see you as she was not paying much attention to what was behind her. The 4' gap was not enough for her to really see you properly if she was in fact looking in her rear view mirror (she probably didn't look anyway) as you probably were too close to her AND she didn't back slowly enough to be sure no one was behind her. I owned vans in my time and I know from experience that unless you are looking in ALL the mirrors you cannot properly see a car behind you if the car is in a blind spot. Vans are hard to drive properly and back properly and most people who drive them haven't the faintest clue to back slowly and look at all mirrors.

ScottGem · May 5, 2008, 03:31 PM

One car incurring more or less damage doesn't indicate fault in the least. The angle doesn't mean a thing either. The OP could have rear ended her in the act of turning into the space. The van's blind spot might have a bearing, but its not proof of anything.

Without witnesses to say the van was backing up, it's a he said/she said thing.

JudyKayTee · May 5, 2008, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

The vehicle that hit you sustained less damage than your vehicle and also the angle involved was telling as well. A van can do much more damage than a car can when backing up. Also the van has hidden viewing blind spots so the woman probably didn't even see you as she was not paying much attention to what was behind her. The 4' gap was not enough for her to really see you properly if she was in fact looking in her rear view mirror (she probably didn't look anyway) as you probably were too close to her AND she didn't back slowly enough to be sure no one was behind her. I owned vans in my time and I know from experience that unless you are looking in ALL the mirrors you cannot properly see a car behind you if the car is in a blind spot. Vans are hard to drive properly and back properly and most people who drive them haven't the faintest clue to back slowly and look at all mirrors.

In my experience the angle of the hit tells something but not the whole story - somebody swerves to avoid and it's not what it would seem.

It's back to he said/she said. Only the insurance company can straighten this out - unless driver #1 confesses and offers to pay for the damages to driver #2.

JudyKayTee · May 6, 2008, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

One car incurring more or less damage doesn't indicate fault in the least. The angle doesn't mean a thing either. The OP could have rear ended her in the act of turning into the space. The van's blind spot might have a bearing, but its not proof of anything.

Without witnesses to say the van was backing up, its a he said/she said thing.

PS - and with a known blind spot the driver of the van is held to a higher standard of care/caution when backing up. She KNOWS she can't see behind her as well as drivers of other vehicles.

Sounds like minimal damage and just a fenderbender so 90% of this won't come into play.