[phildebenham]

I've gone thru the thread again. I think I found where some confusion has entered into it on the part of all parties, with certain statements that were not precise enough. Suffice it to say, that I think we are pretty much on the same page now as far as respecing ones right to their beliefs.

Now I can accept that, despite all the name calling directed my way.

[ScottGem]

Now I can accept that, despite all the name calling directed my way.

About that. Almost all of the discussion here was directed at what was posted here. I don't believe anyone engaged in name-calling on a personal level. Any possible derogatory terms where applied to what was said.

I received certain comment as well. I was told that I focused only on the bad and was very negative. Also that I believed in nothing. Yet, when disproved those statements, I got no acknolwedgement of it.

[phildebenham]

About that. Almost all of the discussion here was directed at what was posted here. I don't believe anyone engaged in name-calling on a personal level. Any possible derogatory terms where applied to what was said.

I received certain comment as well. I was told that I focused only on the bad and was very negative. Also that I beleived in nothing. Yet, when disproved those statements, I got no acknolwedgement of it.

You have just acknowledged it. But, be that as it may, we shall, I believe, both live in peace and with respect towards one another from here on out. Agreed?

[Tommyp!972]

Hi. Jesus is your only answer. I do not care what others tell you, you must believe in, and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. There is no other.
May God bless you.

So what happened to everyone BEFORE Jesus was born?

[ScottGem]

Hi. Jesus is your only answer. I do not care what others tell you, you must believe in, and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. There is no other.
May God bless you.

I suggest you read through this thread entirely. I think you will find that even those that believe as you do, still respect the fact that others have the right to believe differently.

Those of us that don't believe as you do, don't cotton to using phrases like "your only answer", "you must believe", "there is no other".

The only verifiable fact is that there are many religions. Millions of people believe differently from each others. The Amercian society is built partially on religious freedom. That each individual has the right to believe and practice what they want. You have the right toi express what you believe. I respect that. But please fford me that same respect.

[31pumpkin]

ScottGem:

I had a fair amount of Jewish friends when "we" we about 20.
Religion was never really mentioned except for acknowledging the obvious.
Now, I was born a Christian. Believed in God, subconsciously or consciously.
These friends must have been non-religious or we probably wouldn't have been friends at all.
Now, I'm not in any catch-22 position. I can relate to the secular society with somewhat" ease".
One more fact here is at the 20ish age I forgot sometimes, but Never denied my belief in God.
O.K. Now my question is this:

This whole discussion (FOR ME,) NOW has boiled down to...
Having eliminated any other Religions... Does it not come down to the only 2 Religions that hold any Truth?
Isn't the Religion in this Topic about that?

Tell me, do my statements hold any water to Anyone?
Is this Judaism and Christianity?

[arcura]

ScottGem,
Thanks for clearing that up.
Believe it or not there are parts of many other beliefs that I think are true.
All those that believe in a creator: I agree with that.
All those that believe we should not harm each other: I agree with that.
I also agree with those have in their particular belief:
That working for peace and kindness is a noble virtue,
That there is but one true God,
That one of the main purposes in life is to serve each other,
That human life is sacred,
That honesty is much more preferred than deception,
That men and women were made for each other,
And much more.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
:) :) :)

[ScottGem]

Just to make it clear:

ScottGem,
Thanks for clearing that up.
Believe it or not there are parts of many other beliefs that I think are true.

All those that believe in a creator: I agree with that.
I agree that there was a creator, we probably differ on the nature of the entity
All those that believe we should not harm each other: I agree with that.
The three major religions all believe in the Ten Commandments. Other religions also have prohibitions against harming other life.
I also agree with those have in their particular belief:
That working for peace and kindness is a noble virtue,
I definitely agree with that
That there is but one true God,
While I believe in a Creator, I don't believe in what I think you refer to as a God.
That one of the main purposes in life is to serve each other,
I would put it to HELP each other
That human life is sacred,
To a large extent
That honesty is much more preferred than deception,
Most definitely
That men and women were made for each other,
Not sure about what's behind that one, so I'll pass.
And much more.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
:) :) :)

It seems we do have a number of beliefs in common.

[jduke44]

I just looked at several different versions. Most seem to use the wording "that we may know them" in describing what the crowd said to Lot. The word "know" is being interpreted as sexually. Not being a biblical scholar, I'm not going to argue with that interpretation. But I'm still not too comfortable with the idea of condoning the offering of virgin daughters for gang rape for any reason.

Scott, I commend you for researching this on your own instead of taking my word for it. I only bring this up for clarification and nothing else. In my view of this scripture, I don't believe God (and the author) is necessarily condoning this behavior. God never condones this behavior for any reason. Just like He didn't condone the two for trying to sexually rape the two angels and the two angels killed them. I believe this is in there because it happened. God chose to have it in there to show the even ones who believe in Him mess up. The one's who believe in Him and mess up can ask forgiveness and He will forgive them. Sometimes I believe God will forgive even when we don't ask. Lot thought he was doing the right thing I am sure, but in context with the teaching with the rest of the Bible, that isn't right to do. I hoep this clarifies this particular scripture.

[ScottGem]

O.K. Now my question is this:

This whole discussion (FOR ME,) NOW has boiled down to.......
Having eliminated any other Religions.... Does it not come down to the only 2 Religions that hold any Truth?
Isn't the Religion in this Topic about that?

Tell me, do my statements hold any water to Anyone?
Is this Judaism and Christianity?

In my view there are three major religions that have to considered, Judiasm, Christianity and Islam. All three are based on the Old Testatment. Christianity expands on the OT with the NT. Islam rather than expanding on the earlier works, takes bits and pieces and adds its own. Within each of the big three there are sects that have some varying beliefs.

Then there is Buddhism and Hinduism that have their own practices. I'm not going to try to list splinter groups like Wiccan, Druidism etc.

There is some commonality between almost all of them as well as major differences.

Remember this discussion startted with a question about what a 15 year old should pick.

My point has been that it doesn't necessarily matter. What's important, in my view, is that a person lives an ethical, moral and generous life.

[arcura]

ScottGem,
Thanks,
To clear up this one...
That men and women were made for each other,
Not sure about what's behind that one, so I'll pass.
What is behind it is that men and women (that is the need sexual difference) is for the propagation of the species, sometimes called species survival.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[ScottGem]

ScottGem,
Thanks,
To clear up this one.....
That men and women were made for each other,
Not sure about what's behind that one, so I'll pass.
What is behind it is that men and women (that is the need sexual difference) is for the propagation of the species, sometimes called species survival.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Well now, there are species that are asexual. I would say the Creator did some experimenting and arrived at the concept of different genders mating to produce offspring. However, I also believe that concept is both one of the greatest gifts and greatest curses bestowed on the human species. But that is a topic for another discussion. ;)

[arcura]

ScottGem,
That would be and intersting discussion.
Why not start it?
This one has lost much of it's steam.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[ScottGem]

ScottGem,
That would be and intersting discussion.
Why not start it?
This one has lost much of it's steam.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I may at some point, but I think I need some time to recover from this one ;)

[DrJ]

I really wish I had the time to read all these posts... but since most of you seem to be caught up in your own little discussions, Im going to jump in on what Father Chuck said a few pags back...

"Christianity is the only true religion."

Father Chuck, what defines a Christian?

There are many answers to this question. Many will say that it is one that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. To that, one could say that MANY people inadvertently follow those teachings without acknowledging that Jesus is their Savior. Most Christians would then say that without acknowledging that, they are NOT Christians.

Some would say it's a person professing belief in Jesus as the Christ. I can certainly know that Jesus is the Christ and worship Satan, therefore that would not make me Christian.

I believe my Sunday school teachers told me that as long as I accepted Jesus into my heart, I was a Christian. Well, I have done that a thousand times, during a thousand sermons... and yet, I have sinned... I have acknowledged, practiced, and professed other religions without asking forgiveness. Am I still a Christian?

Some would say that you have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God. That He was sent here to die for our sins.

I believe that. Does that make me a Christian? What about if I told you that I didn't believe He was the ONLY Son of God? Does that no longer make me a Christian? Aren't we ALL Sons of God? Didn't Jesus Himself profess that He is no different than you or I? That we can do acts in His name just as Jesus did? I also see God and Death in a different light than 95% of proclaimed Christians. I believe in a form of reincarnation. I believe that Astrology can tell us a lot about our path in this Life. I believe that the Darkness can be contacted. I believe that One can overcome the limitations of this Life. I believe that I am as much a part of God and Jesus Himself... as Buddha... as Hare Krishna... I believe it all parallels a scientific aspect of Life...

I could go on and on... lol - basically, all I am getting at is what truly defines a Christian?

[rideout2]

Yes, we cannot deny that other faith exist. But this does not make them true. It is everyone's right to believe as they wish. That is why God gave us freedom of choice. He wants us to come to Him because we want to, not because we have to. That is why He did not build robots. Even the angels were given freedom of choice. That is how Satan was able to rebel, and take a third of the angles with him.

As a follower of Jesus, I must tell what His word says. That does not mean that I am saying that other faiths does not exist. It means that I believe the bible, and what it says. There are some things in the bible, which I do not understand, and I do not believe others understand it either. Because I believe it is not time for us to have this knowledge yet.

But the basics, I do understand, and that is what I base my beliefs on. I believe that Jesus is the only begotten of the Father, and that it only through Him that we can be saved. That is what He said. Now that is true, or He is a liar. There is no between. He cannot be both. I do not believe that He could lie, nor did He ever want to. So, in my heart, I know that He is who He said He was/is, and that is what I base my faith, my life, and the destiny of my soul. Amen..

[phildebenham]

So what happened to everyone BEFORE Jesus was born?

According to the bible, Jesus existed before his incarnation, in fact it was He who created everything that is. The promise of his coming and his redemptive work for all of mankind first occurs in Genesis and can be found over and over again in the Old Testament. Jesus told the Pharisees that Abraham saw him and was glad. The Jews answered him saying, "you are not yet 30 years old and you say you've seen Abraham?" Jesus answered, "Before Abraham was, I AM."

So, to answer your question, Jesus was the answer to all of mankinds problems from the beginning of creation.

Phil Debenham

[orange]

It's really weird how a couple of days and a major event can change your outlook on things... there was a huge tragedy, 2 accidental deaths in my family, and now the religious discussions, arguments, etc. don't seem to matter anymore.

Anyway I just wanted to say that if I offended or hurt anyone by anything I've said in this thread, I apologize. It's difficult to describe, but like I said, I feel a lot differently now. Take care everyone, I probably won't be participating in this thread anymore, at least for a while!

[talaniman]

Yes, we cannot deny that other faith exist. But this does not make them true. It is everyone's right to believe as they wish. That is why God gave us freedom of choice. He wants us to come to Him because we want to, not because we have to. That is why He did not build robots. Even the angels were given freedom of choice. That is how Satan was able to rebel, and take a third of the angles with him.

As a follower of Jesus, I must tell what His word says. That does not mean that I am saying that other faiths does not exist. It means that I believe the bible, and what it says. There are some things in the bible, which I do not understand, and I do not believe others understand it either. Because I believe it is not time for us to have this knowledge yet. :cool:

But the basics, I do understand, and that is what I base my beliefs on. I believe that Jesus is the only begotten of the Father, and that it only through Him that we can be saved. That is what He said. Now that is true, or He is a liar. There is no inbetween. He cannot be both. I do not believe that He could lie, nor did He ever want to. So, in my heart, I know that He is who He said He was/is, and that is what I base my faith, my life, and the destiny of my soul. Amen..

Am I wrong if I am not a christian? Am I a heathen If I don't believe the bible is the word of GOD?

[rideout2]

I will only tell you what the bible says. I will not call anyone a name. I do not have that right. I cannot judge. I do not want to judge. That is God's job. In fact, I could not even describe a heathen. My desire is to help someone find Jesus. I cannot do that by calling people names. God loves everyone. He wants everyone to come home to Him. So do I. God bless