[dlochart]

This is time critical because we are leaving tomorrow and won't be back until the next weekend.

House Info:
150 amp service.
circuit in question has 20 amp breaker installed.
Home was built in 1930 but all interior electrical was updated (year updated unknown).

Issue: Our baseboard heater (1500 watts) stopped working. It was the only thing on the socket at the time and the other load on the circuit was simply 2 night lites. I decided to replace all the sockets in the bedroom as they were old. I had to replace all in the other bedroom the previous year, they did not have the screw style connections which I prefer and they were used to extend the circuit in ways I did not like. When we investigated the plug of the heater, the socket and wiring further we discovered brittle and burned insulation and the socket had also cracked. This is a serious issue. The sockets in the wall were 15amp rated sockets.

attached images:
Pic1 = bad wall connection
Pic2 = bad socket front
Pic3 = downstream (down current) socket condition.
Pic4 = bad socket back

The socket downstream had decent insulation elasticity (not too dry) and no evidence of problems. The preceding socket (and first in line from the breaker) had one wire with bad insulation near the connection. I just determined that it is coming from the circuit breaker. If I am not mistaken we had a 1500 amp heater there and the plug showed signs of melting a few years back. The cord was thin so I initially thought it was a poor quality heater thus we bought a better quality one.

Questions:
1) If you have a 20 amp breaker should the sockets be 15 amp or 20 amp? Could the fact that it's a 15 amp socket be part of the problem?

2) At this time I do not know the rating on the wire. I HOPE its 20 amp (12 gauge) wire but I will try and go determine that if I can. If its 15 amp wire with 15amp sockets would a 20 amp breaker cause problems?

3) I am assuming the answer to this question is yes but should I replace the entire length of wire coming from the circuit panel to the troubled socket ? (this would cover 2 sockets) Or if I can cut the wire back to good insulation and still attach the sockets is that OK? I have checked the condition of the outer covering of the wire past this socket and all seems to be good (no drying or other issues).

4) Is there ever a time when a socket/plug getting warm is acceptable? Is luke warm OK or should it always ne room temperature?

I have 3 circuits dissappearing behind the wall, one of them is 12-3-g I assume this is the lighting circuit) , one is 12-2-g, and one is 14-2-g. If this circuit is supplied by 14-2-g I have a problem.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Doug

[tkrussell]

First off, you have the very popular fault found in homes, esp. subdivision homes, apts, etc . The push in connection is a typical problem, and I made a lot of money repairing these.

So any outlet with wrap around screw terminals is the best method. Any not changed will fail if used with a large load of electric heat, another popular reason for fires, because of the high wattage and current needs. That and loose connections are the major reasons for this situation you have.

Answers are:

1.No, 15 amp devices on 20 amp circuit is fine, the circuit is limited to 15 amps or less because a true 20 amp plug will only go in a 20 amp outlet.

2.Change the breaker if it is a 20 amp CB on #14 wire. Not allowed.

3. Yes you can cut back to good wire ,even if you only have just enough to make a tight insulated connection. Note:Crimps are only good if two or more wires are twisted, wirenuts are best.

4.The heat was created by the large load of the heater, and many times the plug is loose in the outlet, and / or the wires are loose in the back. The high current flow causes the heat, which feeds on itself, hotter it gets the looser the connection.

[dlochart]

I forgot to send my edit. I have two more questions.

5) What if any is the comfortable warmth that you should feel when touching a plug/cord at the socket? Is Luke warm OK or is anything above room temperature bad?

6) Given that I have a 1500 watt heater, I see that a 15amp wire can load no more than 1440 watts. How many watts can a 20 amp circuit hold? My wife has a 1800 watt hair dryer.

[dlochart]

One more thing, I guess I will need a 20 amp socket in order for the 1500 watt heater to function properly, is that right (given of course that the breaker and wire is 20 amp).

Thanks again for your help.

Doug

[tkrussell]

Since the heater came with a 15 amp plug , a 15 amp outlet is fine. A 20 amp will help, has a higher current rating, and should have screw terminals to prevent loose connections.
You will see that a 20 amp outlet has a T for one of the blade openings. This is what makes 20 amp plugs different than a 15.

[dlochart]

tk, one more thing... well two more =).

5) What if any is the comfortable warmth that you should feel when touching a plug/cord at the socket? Is Luke warm OK or is anything above room temperature bad?

6) Given that I have a 1500 watt heater, I see that a 15amp wire can load no more than 1440 watts which I guess is OK since the plug is a 15 amp plug.

How many watts can a 20 amp circuit hold? My wife has a 1800 watt hair dryer. It too has a 15 amp plug but should it go to a 20 amp socket or is it good enough for the short duration that it will run?

I have determined that the wire is 20 amp so I am safe there. I'll just take the time and replace all the sockets in the house then just to be safe. I hate it when people take the cheap way out. I am no electrician by trade but come on its your house and your life at stake!

TIA again Doug

[tkrussell]

Luke warm is normal, most all electric devices create heat, but the warmth is relative to the device and normal current draw. But aynthing too hot to touch is much too much.

A TV draws very little, and no heat should be noticed, a toaster, thou only runs a short while, (that's why a 1800 hair dryer can run on a 15 amp circuit,) will cause the blades of the plug to be somewhat hot. Do note that newer codes now require all bathroom outlets to be a min of 20 amp. Your home was built under a less stringent code that was based on short duration, and you are not obligated to upgrade. If you do, all the better.

Large loads will draw the power it needs, loose connections or not, and the loose connection will blossom.

[dlochart]

Awesome, thanks again. I have one more question (sorry)

If my wire is too short after I cut the bad part off, can I extend it with a twist and a cap? I would also wrap all exposed wire and cap with electrical tape.
Is this considered safe and / or within code?



Otherwise I'll have to rip out the wall and replace the wire. I don't think I can fish any new line in considering its location. I may be able to go up into the attic and back down again but that would be my only other option and that is a maybe.

Thanks again,

Doug

[tkrussell]

Yes as I stated in first post:
3. Yes you can cut back to good wire ,even if you only have just enough to make a tight insulated connection. Note:Crimps are only good if two or more wires are twisted, wirenuts are best.
Follow this and you should be fine.

[dlochart]

Thanks TK. I am all set. Everything checks out. Next weekend project... replace all sockets in the house with better ones!

Doug