[COOKIE MONSTER]

Well I disagree I think alife is being killed but that's my opinion and that is what this site is for opinions and I was giving mine and in ireland it is NOT legal there is NOT 1 abortion clinic in ireland NOT 1 if you want an abortion it cost nearly 1000euro that's not including travel etc

[Synnen]

See... I think that nikosmom kind of added to my point.

Not ALL single moms are on public assistance (though there are too many for my liking) but not ALL dads are deadbeats complaining about child support, either (though there are still too many for my liking there, too)

And let's not turn this into an abortion debate (over whether it's a human life). I know you agree with me that it's a woman's choice--but that's because each woman defines whether it is life differently, as well.

[COOKIE MONSTER]

I am on social welfare payment or public assistance if you want to call it I wish I wasn't but I am my youngest is just nearly 6months my eldest is 2 and as soon as my youngest has started nursery I will be getting the ball rolling to be a drugs councillor and I'm learning html at the moment aswel so I can get a good job

[Fr_Chuck]

For many men ( not all of course) move on, start a new family, and they get used to living on certain incomes, Many don't visit their child and don't feel any responsilibty to the child.

So when 20 to 30 percent of their pay goes for the child, then their new wife or girl friend also fusses that they are not bringing home enough money.

While the truth is they have a moral and legal obligation, many just don't realise it

[the1unv]

First off I get so tired of hearing about guys complaining about paying child support. It is a two way street. I was a single dad for 11 years, my oldest son is now 22. My ex-wife is a RN in a state hospital. She was making $50,000.00 a year with full benefits. My son lived with me and I provided all insurance, cloths etc... I was making $25,000.00 a year. She was court ordered to pay me $105.00 per month. At 16 years old my son went to go live with his mother... the courts ordered me to continue carrying insurance on my son and I had to pay her $425.00 per month. Go Figure?? My son who was an A-B student and a Boy Scout quit school and was busted for theft in a walmart store with in 6 weeks of being with his mother. He moved in with friends and got a girl pregnant before he turned 17. Guess what... I still had to pay child support even though he didn't live with his mother! I guess that makes me a "BAD DAD" for complaining about how much I pay. I need to say one more thing to COOKIEMONSTER... child support is to help you raise your children... It is NOT meant to be spent on TOYS. It is to help pay rent,utilities,cloths,food and etc... I don't much care how some moms want to complain about how hard things are... I was a single dad who raised my son, worked 40+ hours a week, assisted in FFA, was a Boy Scout leader, coached baseball and soccer, cooked all the meals, did all the laundry and cleaning... plus I did odd jobs on the weekends to make ends meet... you know why... because I had to!! AND I would do it all again to have that time with my son!! You have your children... suck it up and make the best of it. If there is any questions I would like to ask it is WHY does a man who makes half the money his ex-wife makes have to pay over 4 times the child support she does??
Mike

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

I would like to chime in about the mothers using the child support money for their leisure...

It does NOT matter how the mother uses the money. It only matters that the father is paying x amount each month like he is suppose to. What she does with the money is her business and hers alone.

For awhile I battled the same situation and thought that it wasn't fair that a father pays $500/month and the mother does what ever with it. Not only did I realise that it was none of my business but also that as long as he is giving her the proper amount for their child, he is safe.

Yes, it angers me too that mothers uses child support money to buy clothes, shoes, make up, get their hair or nails done, or worst yet, cosmetic/plastic surgery but hey, we live in that kind of world. We either have to deal with it, or live in anger. I choose to deal with it because and by happy for myself, happy that I'm not making those decisions.

[Depressed in MO]

This topic seems to be somewhat of a rollercoaster. Every single person who has commented on this thread has very valid points. But some should be careful as to what they say. Then again, this is a place for everyone to voice their OPINION, so I'd like to share what I feel if it's OK.

I am 27 years old, single mom, three kids. Two different dads. Yep, there, I said it. Obviously, had my first born when I was very young (17). Was with her dad for four years. Left for obvious reasons, too young, needed to make a REAL life for my daughter and I. I worked, went to college, and raised her on my own. The next two came from the same father, both were planned, we were together for 7 years. For those of you who say... "you should've kept your legs closed..." -well you are right to some extent. But how are we to always know how the future is going to end up? It's impossible. No one knows that their lover is going to cheat on them, or beat them, or leave them and never return for weeks, months, years at a time. That doesn't mean one should have kept her legs closed because-OOPS, their baby's daddy turned out to be a loser after all. A little too late for all that. I have always worked, and provided every single thing that my children have ever needed, clothing, food, medical, bedtime stories, kissing ouchies, you name it. I work full time, clean the house DAILY, pay for daycare, attend school functions, plays, take them to the park, let them play outside in the snow-whatever I can to keep them happy and healthy. And frankly, that keeps ME happy and healthy. I have a good job, offers benefits, 401 K-basically the works. But, hopefully some, or better yet, all of you may know-nothing is for free. Even those nice benefits from work. It takes money out of your paycheck. I make decent money, and I know one should not post what they make on the internet full of strangers, so I won't post EXACTLY what I make, but it's between $14-$15 per hour. To most of you, that's probably petty. But I've worked long and hard just to make it to that salary and I'm damn proud of it. I can't afford the cost of the insurance that my work provides because it takes too much out of my paycheck, which takes money away from the cost of living. I cannot contribute to my 401 K and additional stocks because it takes money away from the cost of living. I have never went after any of the kids' fathers for child support. That was my biggest mistake right there... until recently. None of them ever worked, nor do they have jobs now (therefore-part of the reason why we are not together-part of it). So, in addition, I have recently gone down to the Division of Family Support to see if I would qualify for any kind of assistance at all. I was disqualified for every single thing. The only thing I MIGHT be eligible for is medicaid for my kids, not even myself. Ok, good. Well at least that is something. I asked the caseworker after I was informed of all this-"Well, what if the father doesn't ever pay?"-He shrugged his shoulders and told me he didn't know what to tell me. So here I am, in square one again.

I don't disagree to the fact that there are so many people on welfare for the wrong reasons, but I don't get why public assistance/welfare will ONLY help those people who don't have a job or make under $6.25 an hour. I absolutely think that the non-custodial parent should help financially raise their children. As far as the guidelines go as to what percentage should go towards that-I don't know. There are a lot of people who work full time plus some, pay taxes, etc... but don't qualify for any assistance AND don't get child support.

My overall point is-it is ABSOLUTELY fair that both parties should be equally responsible for the financial upbringing of their children and it should definitely go by the salary that each parent is making. NO one should ever tell anyone to just keep their legs closed or that their parents are to blame because of the current situation. My parents raised me right from wrong, I was punished when I was bad, and I was rewarded when I was good. If anyone ever told me that it was my parents' fault for the way my life turned out-I'd straight up tell them where to go. Unless someone knew me and my family well, no one should judge another by what they read/see/hear from the outside-because you just don't know what is really going on from within.

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

Depressed in MO,

I like your statement. You are a very strong woman. No, it is not right to tell someone that they should've kept their legs closed because who would've thought that the love of your life would turn their back on you one day? No one knows and no one can tell the future.

[Depressed in MO]

Depressed in MO,

I like your statement. You are a very strong woman. No, it is not right to tell someone that they should've kept their legs closed because who would've thought that the love of your life would turn their back on you one day? No one knows and no one can tell the future.

Thank you for the support. Again, I totally agree, well, understand everyone's opinion here. But every situation is different. Unfortunately, the society is the way that it is. If one wants to continue getting pregnant, regardless of HOW or WHY, then I think the most important thing they need to be taught (other than Birth Control or absitenence 101), is how to deal with the way they will be treated in society-financially and mentally.

Again, Thank you.

[nikosmom]

I agree with Depressed in saying that none of us know what the future holds for relationships, whether married or not. I knew my son's father for 5 years BEFORE we were romantically involved and we were together for 2 yrs. The abuse didn't start until the last few months. I had no idea it would've turned out like that. But to be blunt, I opened my legs to him because I loved him at the time. That's what people that love each other do; they have sex.

I also think Mike made a good point, that responsibility should be shared equally. So for all the single dads out there, I think they are entitled to child support as well relative to the income of the other parent.

I give my son everything he NEEDS. If I ever get child support, you better believe that it'll be used for daycare, clothes,food, and other living expenses; not toys. Also like Mike mentioned, the custodial parent is spending so much more when the child actually lives in your home. You don't get to charge class field trips and birthday gifts to child support, but don't we all want to be able to do those simple things for our children? Child support doesn't account for going to PTA/teacher meetings after work when you're dog-tired. It doesn't account for staying up or missing work when your child is sick. It doesn't account for driving them back and forth to doctors appts and pee-wee league football games. So I think male or female, the non-custodial parent should be held responsible.

And I don't want anybody telling me I should've kept my legs closed because my child is a blessing to me. He has been a wonderful addition to my life and regardless of what happened with his father, I'm thankful that he chose me to come through unto life. I have to make it the best I can until I can get a judgement against him.

[svatnsdal]

This is really making feel very happy and grateful to be who I am!
I really wish birth control was out and available a lot more, I also really wish parents would be a lot more open to their kids and discuss the outcome. Sex education is a class that should be taught in every school to every child! Make teenagers live like parents for a week and then see how they think!

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

You are so right svatnsdal about parents being open with their kids.

But I don't think that the lack of sex education has an effect on so many pregnancies. Even if it were taught in every single school I still don't think that is a huge factor.

I'll tell you what I do believe to be partially blamed for and that is the media. I don't think any movie these days can't finish unless there is some steamy part added. There are a few that don't have them, but most do.

Parents do have a lot to do with their child's upbringing. Thank fully my parents were open enough to discuss it with me. As a teen, I looked at intercourse as 'Well if I do it, I will get pregnant and be miserable.' Not all pregnancies end in horror but as a teen they just might.

[Greg Quinn]

If a woman wants and is granted custody of a child and limit shared access to the father she should get nothing(Except for special circumstances). If there is split access to the child or children, the man shouldn't have to pay a cent. In these cases I would complain too
If it is a dad who doesn't want to take responsibility for his own child and raise the child, he would be a waste of skin... And complaining about money is the least of his low life problems.

[Depressed in MO]

[QUOTE=Greg Quinn]If a woman wants and is granted custody of a child and limit shared access to the father she should get nothing(Except for special circumstances). If there is split access to the child or children, the man shouldn't have to pay a cent. In these cases I would complain too

Sorry, but In my opinion, only a man would say this. Sorry, what I mean is the "non-custodial" parent.

Please don't be offended as I mean nothing personally to you if I HAVE offended you, it's just that BOTH parties should be responsible for the financial upbringing of their children, no matter who has them at ANY time.

[COOKIE MONSTER]

A CHILD NEEDS EDUCATIONAL TOYS TO HELP IT GROW AND LEARN AND TO USE ITS BRAIN
I get 360euro a week 155 goes to rent leaving 205euro left about 90euro goes on food leaving 115euro,12 goes on coal,6 on taxi home with shopping,leaving 97 which goes on the electric bill,clothes and toys for both my sons they don't get toys every week[because I have bills] and I do have family that buy them toys and most of the toys are from bloody xmas my son has been taught to look after his things because mammy can't afford to buy him new 1s every week just because I have a house full of toys does not mean I bought them all I did not say I bought them all if you read it and it does not meen they were all brand new either I buy most toys on eBay
My sons are both well fed and clothed and if they need something I go with out I've needed anew coat for 3 years and I've just saved up enough money to get the one I want I don't go round with designer gear and anew cell I got mine last year I saved up for that aswel

And anyway I don't get child support off either of my sons dads I don't want it either I get by just fine yeah sometimes it's a struggle but I don't complain I get on with it if I need anew top or pair of pants I go oxfam or see if theirs anything cheap on sale I don't buy brand gear its not my style and it costs way too much I don't go out drinking and partying because I don't have the money to plus I don't drink I don't do drugs either my mum gave me my PC because she got anew 1 most of what I have is second hand so don't be giving me all that crap I budget my cash I have to I won't end up like my mum with bills up to her eyeballs and if you don't believe me go and ask teatea on this site she's my auntie

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

That's very true Deppressed in MO.

Why should a man get away with every seed he plants? If that were the case, then EVERY man would go around, getting women pregnant, and then going on as they please.

[Depressed in MO]

A CHILD NEEDS EDUCATIONAL TOYS TO HELP IT GROW AND LEARN AND TO USE ITS BRAIN
i get 360euro a week 155 goes to rent leaving 205euro left about 90euro goes on food leaving 115euro,12 goes on coal,6 on taxi home with shopping,leaving 97 which goes on the electric bill,clothes and toys for both my sons they don't get toys every week[because i have bills] and i do have family that buy them toys and most of the toys are from bloody xmas my son has been taught to look after his things because mammy can't afford to buy him new 1s every week just because i have a house full of toys does not mean i bought them all i did not say i bought them all if you read it and it does not meen they was all brand new either i buy most toys on ebay
my sons are both well fed and clothed and if they need something i go with out ive needed anew coat for 3 years and ive just saved up enough money to get the one i want i don't go round with designer gear and anew cell i got mine last year i saved up for that aswel

and anyway i don't get child support off either of my sons dads i don't want it either i get by just fine yeah sometimes its a struggle but i don't complain i get on with it if i need anew top or pair of pants i go oxfam or see if theirs anything cheap on sale i don't buy brand gear its not my style and it costs way to much i don't go out drinking and partying because i don't have the money to plus i don't drink i don't do drugs either my mum gave me my pc because she got anew 1 most of what i have is second hand so don't be giving me all that crap i budget my cash i have to i wont end up like my mum with bills up to her eyeballs and if you don't believe me go and ask teatea on this site she's my auntie

Honey, you don't have to explain yourself to anyone on this site, it's no one's business. All that matters is what you think and feel about YOU.
Good luck to you and your family. You sound like a good mom to me.

[Depressed in MO]

This is really making feel very happy and grateful to be who I am!
I really wish birth control was out and available a lot more, I also really wish parents would be a lot more open to their kids and discuss the outcome. Sex education is a class that should be taught in every school to every child! Make teenagers live like parents for a week and then see how they think!

I agree with you too. I think it goes deeper than the parents talking to their kids about sex. I believe that a lot of parents DO talk to their kids about sex.
I remember being scared to tell my mom when I wanted to go on birth control as I felt she would be ashamed of me or I would be in trouble because she would then think or know that I was having sex.-even though she always assured me that I could come to her with anything.I think, in addition, or even before-the SEX talk-parents need to open up to their children to let them know that they can come to them ANYTIME they have a problem or question on ANY subject. People shouldn't be so quick to judge-It's not just about the lack in talking about sex education when it comes to blaming parents. It should be about their overal relationship as a whole with the child. Again, just my opinion.

[COOKIE MONSTER]

Well it pissed me off to be honest with you and when something pisses me off I have to say what I think or explain myself or b**ch at that person and I have done all 3 and feel better for it

[nikosmom]

well it pissed me off to be honest with you and when something pisses me off i have to say what i think or explain myself or b**ch at that person and i have done all 3 and feel better for it

Well I personally wasn't calling you out. I mentioned the thing about toys because the messages that I referenced (Depressed & 1UNV) were talking about furnishing children's NEEDS. I think all the custodial parents are entitled to support from the other parent. I'm going to keep going to court until I get a judgement. My son needs that money and he shouldn't be punished just because his father is angry at me about ending our relationship.

I agree with Depressed that you don't have to reveal to anyone on this site how much money you receive. Can I ask why you don't seek support from your kids' fathers? They deserve that help and possibly with that help you won't be in such a predicament. This is what the original question was: why is it that a lot of fathers think they shouldn't have to pay child support.