[George_1950]

Time's Joe Klein thinks so: "Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now."
The Patriotism Problem - TIME

[Guest]

Time's Joe Klein thinks so: "Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now."
The Patriotism Problem - TIME

About Klein's statement, simply put, how can it not be? If Obama had not shown the whole nation that he did not want to Patriotically place his hand over his heart for the National Anthem and that he did not wish to wear the American Flag pin on his lapel and had he distanced himself from Wright's hateful, unpatriotic remarks years ago as well as from Farra--, and told his wife not to say what the news media says she said about this country, then perhaps he would have better credibility. But under the circumstances, the writer of the article hit the nail *right on the head*! We need a President who will do things PATRIOTICALLY the *AMERICAN* way and show his or her LOVE for this country not fill people's broken dreams with impossible solutions using gossamer thin plastic tape just to sound nice and hold the public's attention thereby pulling the wool over their eyes. Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it for someone campaigning on real CHANGE! We need Experience and Savvy to solve the pressing problems this country is now facing and Obama simply just doesn't have what it takes to lead us forward no matter how badly the spinmeisters try to color it!

[BABRAM]

Is the lack of "corny" patriotism an issue for Obama? Time's Joe Klein thinks so: "Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now."

I have to admit after reading this article I think Joe Klein has discovered a new way to get a paycheck for doing diddly squat. I do agree with parts of his commentary, but as an informed reader, some of it didn't work for me.

Example 1

""But there was still something missing. I noticed it during Obama's response to a young man who remembered how the country had come together after Sept. 11 and lamented "the dangerously low levels of patriotism and pride in our country, the loss of faith in our elected officials." Obama used this, understandably, to go after George W. Bush. "Cynicism has become the hot stock," he said, "the growth industry during the Bush Administration." He talked about the Administration's mendacity, its incompetence during Hurricane Katrina, its lack of transparency. But he never returned to the question of patriotism. He never said, "But hey, look, we're Americans. This is the greatest country on earth. We'll rise to the occasion.""


Barack was saying we could do better by comparison of the soon to be past Bush admin, not just a campaigning shot, but true to subject. BTW using Joe's own logic and judgment, Joe himself just suggested the US is not the greatest country on earth and that we need to rise to the occasion. Perhaps there is some truth to that. Wow! :eek:


Example 2

"Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now. His aides believe that the Wright controversy was more about anti-Americanism than it was about race. Michelle Obama's unfortunate comment that the success of the campaign had made her proud of America "for the first time" in her adult life and the Senator's own decision to stow his American-flag lapel pin — plus his Islamic-sounding name — have fed a scurrilous undercurrent of doubt about whether he is "American" enough."

We already know the man has more uphill battles to fight from a historical perspective than the other two current candidates. That's why Geraldine Ferraro stills wears the bozo button for suggesting Barack's path was easier, and was lucky because he was "black." What real expectations does Klein have for Obama to change his last name to Clinton or McCain? :rolleyes:


Example 3

"In this campaign, we will not stand for the politics that uses religion as a wedge and patriotism as a bludgeon," he said on the night that he lost Ohio and Texas. But then he added, "I owe what I am to this country, this country that I love, and I will never forget it." That has been the implicit patriotism of the Obama candidacy: only in America could a product of Kenya and Kansas seek the presidency. It is part of what has proved so thrilling to his young followers, who chanted, "U-S-A, U-S-A," the night that he won the Iowa caucuses. But now, to convince those who doubt him, Obama has to make the implicit explicit. He will have to show that he can be as corny as he is cool."


George- My family has been involved in almost every war since we migrated to this country generations ago. I salute the White House when they've made good decisions and gave them the finger when deserved. These are same idiots that want to be build a fence on our borders like a Berlin Wall. Sure it will keep some illegals out, but at the same time the government pins it's own citizens in like animals. America has had two hundred years plus of Caucasian presidents and short of McCain giving a minstrel show the only candidate with a tan will be Barack. And so, "Hey Joe!" Where you going with that box of corn flakes in your hand? :)

[excon]

Is the lack of "corny" patriotism an issue for Obama? Time's Joe Klein thinks so

Hello George:

I don't know, George. 81% in a NY Times/CBS poll say the nation is headed on the wrong track.

Your guy, Joe Klein, thinks we shouldn't be saying that... “This is a chronic disease among Democrats, who tend to talk more about what's wrong with America than what's right.”

You guy's like all that God and Country rhetoric….. That's all it is, though, corny rhetoric. It makes you feel good… But, it don't fix nothing… I'd rather fix things than feel good. In my view, looking at the country through rose colored glasses is what's wrong with America...

Tell me, how can things be fixed if you never talk about them?? Or, do you just pretend everything is rosey?? I actually think that's what it is.

But, as long as things are bad, THOSE are patriotic things to talk about. And, things are bad! Let me say that again. It's VERY PATRIOTIC to talk about the things that are wrong… I know you don't understand that… That's why you're going to lose this election and many more to come.

excon

[speechlesstx]

[QUOTE=excon]

I don't know, George. 81% in a NY Times/CBS poll say the nation is headed on the wrong track.

It's a good thing some of us don't base our opinions on our feelings. What's interesting, is all these people saying things have "gotten off on the wrong track" (whatever that means) say the economy is the main concern yet 72% say the financial situation in their household is either very good (9%) or good (63%).

Your guy, Joe Klein, thinks we shouldn't be saying that... “This is a chronic disease among Democrats, who tend to talk more about what's wrong with America than what's right.”

I don't get that at all, ex, he's pointing out the obvious.

You guy’s like all that God and Country rhetoric….. That’s all it is, though, corny rhetoric. It makes you feel good… But, it don’t fix nothing… I’d rather fix things than feel good. In my view, looking at the country through rose colored glasses is what's wrong with America...

Yeah, there's a lot of corny patriotism in this country but there's a difference between corny patriotism and inspiration, we need a lot more of the latter. Obama himself is proof of that with all his "hope" rhetoric. The problem with him AND the Democratic party of late is it's just talk, with one goal, winning.

Tell me, how can things be fixed if you never talk about them?? Or, do you just pretend everything is rosey?? I actually think that’s what it is.

But, as long as things are bad, THOSE are patriotic things to talk about. And, things are bad! Let me say that again. It’s VERY PATRIOTIC to talk about the things that are wrong… I know you don’t understand that… That’s why you’re going to lose this election and many more to come.

We do need to talk about things and it is patriotic to talk about what's wrong if the motivation is really to make things better. I don't see that from Democrats. I see a bunch of whiny children having tantrums when they don't get their way (see Bill Clinton lately). I see politicians saying whatever it takes to win because it's all about power to them (see Obama and Hillary's fantasies). The 2006 election is a perfect example, where they threw their own guy under the bus (Lieberman), trotted out the blue dog Democrats front and center while putting their radical little children on a leash, promising their six point plan of "change and new direction for America." What happened? A new direction meant wasting the past year in investigations, demanding an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, and otherwise antagonizing Bush. What's new about that?

Obama was right, "Cynicism has become the hot stock, the growth industry during the Bush Administration." What you're talking about ex, is patriotic. The left is just feeding the "growth industry" of cynicism, and that is NOT patriotic. I don't need corny patriotism from my president any more than I need angry, arrogant cynicism.

[tomder55]

Obama is too cool to be corny.

[tomder55]

From a political strategy standpoint this is the equivalent of Michael Dukakis leading the fight against the Pledge of Allegiance. I think he should keep it up and continue to say people who wear flags on their lapels are displaying phony patriotism. In fact I urge him to do so.

[George_1950]

Clinton is certainly not my guiding star. But one thing he did that made an impression on me, he knew enough about TV journalism and photo journalism (pictures in papers and mags) that he always had a background of American flags. Now comes Obama, and doesn't place his hand over his heart, and doesn't wear the flag on his lapel. Frankly, I couldn't care less, but he is running for president, and these things mean something to some voters. Of course, Clinton was the master in fooling a lot of people, a lot of the time.

[BABRAM]

It's a good thing some of us don't base our opinions on our feelings. What's interesting, is all these people saying things have "gotten off on the wrong track" (whatever that means) say the economy is the main concern yet 72% say the financial situation in their household is either very good (9%) or good (63%).

Compared to where, Haiti? Even Dubya admits the economy is not doing well, i.e. stimulus package. Republicans can't have it both ways, but if people insist that their household is doing "very good" or "good," then the seventy-two percent can afford to send the remaining thirty-eight percent their share of any rebate check funds, they may be receiving. I'm taking all donations. Thank you. :D

[speechlesstx]

Compared to where, Haiti? Even Dubya admits the economy is not not doing well, i.e. stimulus package. Republicans can't have it both ways, but if people insist that their household is doing "very good" or "good," then the seventy-two percent can afford to send the remaining thirty-eight percent their share of any rebate check funds, they may be receiving. I'm taking all donations. Thank you. :D

Hey man, I'm just citing from the poll. I'm all about facts, and that's what it says. :D

[BABRAM]

Hey man, I'm just citing from the poll. I'm all about facts, and that's what it says. :D

Oh darn! I had the seventy-two percent donations already spent. I was going to get a full tank of gas and after about twenty more stops pit stops between Vegas and Big D, I'll be primed for a Texas steak dinner, some preseason football, a couple of new jerseys and caps. Yeah! Never mind, I've got bills to pay first. But "hey" it sounded good! I'm shutting down before shabbos. Catch you later. :)

[guest]

Obama has proven to us that he is not the leader he thinks he is. But he is a good **FOLLOWER**! Just look at the facts, he is the lock-step follower of Rev. Wright and Farrakhan! That will not make for a good American president and anyone who has hung his or her hat on Obama may as well hang it up!

[BABRAM]

Obama has proven to us that he is not the leader he thinks he is. But he is a good **FOLLOWER**! Just look at the facts, he is the lock-step follower of Rev. Wright and Farrakhan! That will not make for a good American president and anyone who has hung his or her hat on Obama may as well hang it up!

Nothing personal but as evidence by previous posts with numerous threads, the other Repubs got their newsletter instructions before you. Take a look-see for yourself. I'll catch everyone later. :rolleyes:

[speechlesstx]

Oh darn! I had the seventy-two percent donations already spent. I was going to get a full tank of gas and after about twenty more stops pit stops between Vegas and Big D, I'll be primed for a Texas steak dinner, some preseason football, a couple of new jerseys and caps. Yeah! Never mind, I've got bills to pay first. But "hey" it sounded good! I'm shutting down before shabbos. Catch ya later. :)

Hey Bobby, if you stop at Amarillo on your way through you can always get a shot a free 72 oz steak dinner at The Big Texan. ;)

Shabbat Shalom my friend.

[Guest]

Nothing personal but as evidence by previous posts with numerous threads, the other Repubs got their newsletter instructions before you. Take a look-see for yourself. I'll catch everyone later. :rolleyes:

Uh uh babe, it must be the funny drink you've been drinking that makes your eyes roll like that and talk that way continuing to defend one that brought all of the disaster upon himself. Check the rest of the nation, and what has even happened to the church Obama used to attend! It was on the top news today! Americans are *not* happy with those things and soon enough they will see through this man wanting the highest office and look elsewhere. As the next states begin to reject Obama, it is he who is going to roll his eyes from fear and incredulity as to what's happening but alas, the Nation would have finally *awoken* from their deep sleep and pacification of his words and will finally stand up to vote for someone else with a solid concrete plan for our economic recovery and other woes. So defend him all you want while we snicker behind your back as you're very amusing! Aw, pobrecito sure appears that he don't know any better!

[BABRAM]

Uh uh babe, it must be the funny drink you've been drinking that makes your eyes roll like that and talk that way continuing to defend one that brought all of the disaster upon himself. Check the rest of the nation, and what has even happened to the church Obama used to attend! It was on the top news today! Americans are *not* happy with those things and soon enough they will see through this man wanting the highest office and look elsewhere. As the next states begin to reject Obama, it is he who is going to roll his eyes from fear and incredulity as to what's happening but alas, the Nation would have finally *awoken* from their deep sleep and pacification of his words and will finally stand up to vote for someone else with a solid concrete plan for our economic recovery and other woes. So go ahead and defend him all you want while we snicker behind your back as you're very amusing! Aw, pobrecito sure appears that he don't know any better!

I once told a corporate attorney that his mouth moved but he wasn't saying anything. Fact one: Obama still has membership at the same church. Not as you claimed, "what has even happened to the church Obama used to attend!" Fact two: I don't tell your aunt how to stock her liquor cabinet because that would me be the bad "guest." Like playing dozens? ;) Fact three: Obama would have to lose to Hillary by a margin of improbable large double digits in all the remaining State primaries and still that wouldn't be enough to give her the outright nomination. Now seriously son, if you can muster up something other than an opinion and provide the facts concerning that "solid economic plan," the floors all yours. Instead of blindly swinging at air trying to hit the piñata, just put forward the plan in this thread and stop wasting time. I'll let you know what parts I agree, or disagree upon. :)

[Gust]

I once told a corporate attorney that his mouth moved but he wasn't saying anything. Fact one: Obama still has membership at the same church. Not as you claimed, "what has even happened to the church Obama used to attend!" Fact two: I don't tell your aunt how to stock her liquor cabinet because that would me be the bad "guest." Like playing dozens?! ;) Fact three: Obama would have to lose to Hillary by a margin of improbable large double digits in all the remaining State primaries and still that wouldn't be enough to give her the outright nomination. Now seriously son, if you can muster up something other than an opinion and provide the facts concerning that "solid economic plan," the floors all yours. Instead of blindly swinging at air trying to hit the pinata, just put forward the plan in this thread and stop wasting time. I'll let you know what parts I agree, or disagree upon. :)

Senior Bubba, if Obama has not been able to muster the plan himself and present it to the American people in depth and he's the one running for president, other than just using cutsie-tootsie words that sound like a xylophone to people's ears, including yours obviously, then the pied piper doesn't have any plan. Sorry to burst your bubble but you're obviously waiting for the next great ark and it surely ain't comin' by way of Obama! Watch yourself, you're blowing a lot of hot air again, Bubba, heh, heh!

[talaniman]

But he is a good **FOLLOWER**! Just look at the facts, he is the lock-step follower of Rev. Wright and Farrakhan!

This is to funny, as the leaders of the church who know the reverend in question, had a news conference and gave him their support, and praised his more than 30 year record, and the shocking fact that the church in question is an integrated church, not a black one. Don't get stuck on 10 lousy minutes, buy the whole series of tapes, and get the full flavor. You obviously don't have cable, or you would have seen it in person, oh that was a white guy, who is the head of the church board doing the talking, so was the other guy with him, yeah a black guy is with them. As for Farrakhan, haven't heard from him, since they gave the money back, so what could you be talking about?

[talaniman]

I'd be careful about putting a lot of faith in anything Joe Klein writes, he is the poster boy for right wing bias. Oh sorry, excuse me if your one of those.

[George_1950]

Sorry, t, but JK is not part of the right wing conspiracy.