[SJB1701E]

I think what we are all saying is, you never healed from the first break-up and now all of this is happening so quickly. Because it is happening so quickly you are jumping at her call(just my opinion) and trying to rush things to get back to the place you were before, but keep in mind, if what went wrong in the relationship is not discussed then it will only happen again. "If we do not learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it"

Don't take this the wrong way, I want this to work out for you. But I'm just afraid that if it falls through, its going to hit you a lot harder because you never fully healed

You are absolutely right that I haven't healed. I need to find a way to deal with that while dealing with having her in my life again. Impossible? Maybe. I brought this on myself, and I feel as though I need to get stronger and rise to the challenge I set before myself. I had built a wall to protect myself, but it turned out to be made of glass. Transparant and easily shattered. I lost all my defenses merely being in her presence. I need to find a way to better control myself before the next date. I'm not entirely sure how to do that.

Believe me I want to discuss what went wrong before jumping back in. In fact we've been doing that. But on the other hand, I'm not sure the dating phase is the right time to drudge up all the negative emotions associated with that. I believe it to be crucial right now to form new happy experiences with her so that those are the emotions she will immediately associate with me. If there's one thing I have done, its examine what went wrong. I think there will be a more appropriate time and place to discuss with her where the relationship failed.

If this does fall through, I will be crushed, and I know that. I knew that intellectually going in. It won't kill me though.

Ok seriously putting me on the defensive here.

When we feel like we need to defend our actions, that's the time to evaluate them first. I share his concerns, as we already know your weakness for her and now a willingness to follow her lead, is something to think about. Think about where your head will be after spending most of the day smelling her perfume and slobbing on her lipstick. Part of what we as guys ignore is putting ourselves in a position to be seduced, or influenced against our will. This whirlwind your on, has you doing, and not listening, a dangerous game of distraction, from the real issue, and that's how she feels about you, and more importantly, what she is going to do about it. Reread this posts for yourself, and see if you have kept any part of the plan you have laid out for yourself. If you find it, please let me know.

Ok so how do I take charge of the situation? I feel as though any control I have will be illusionary. I can't make her be with me again. I can't make her think or feel the way I want her to. So what can I do? What control do I actually have over the situation? Myself? Not hardly. Being around her was like taking a hit from a really strong drug. (No drugs are bad for you metaphors. Already been down that line of thought several times) It was intoxicating. She has a spell over me and it irritates me. And after the meeting, I crashed off that drug. I am feeling withdraws I haven't felt since the breakup. Physical, psycolgical, and emotional pain. The wounds have been reopened in other words. I knew this would be hard but I wasn't prepared for it. My eyes haven't been taken off the goal though. I won't be satisfied unless she defines her feelings for me and I get reconcilliation with her. And I am prepared to break it off with her if I don't get that definition and reconcilliation in the next few months. I am getting past the initial shock. This will get easier and I will get more control over myself. I'm already telling myself no to several impulses I've had such as asking her out for another date so I can see her sooner. I told myself no. I also haven't contacted her since the date which believe me is a hard thing to do. I am reevaluating the plan and trying to find a way to revamp it to take into account what I learned in this first encounter. I've tripped some, but I haven't fallen flat on my face. I just got to make sure I keep from falling. Time to make a new plan.

Hey guys, just wanted you all to know I woke up today feeling normal. What an odd thing to say right? I didn't feel panicked or worried. I didn't wake up craving attention of the ex girlfriend. I felt normal and have had a pretty normal day. My mind is a lot clearer and my heart a lot calmer. I don't know why. Perhaps it took a few days to get over the shock of seeing her, but today I feel pretty good.

I did speak to the ex today briefly, but I was already having a good day before that. The one thing I will say I observed out of her though is she is being extremely insecure about me. She keeps going on and on in every conversation email and on the phone about how much she is looking forward to the next date. And she keeps asking me repetedly if I really want to go with her. Not in a way that sounds like she wants to back out, but in a way that sounds like she is afraid of me backing out. I jokingly brought it up saying, "Yes, I still want to go with you. You're not afraid of me canceling are you?" She said she thought the only reason I was going with her was so I wouldn't hurt her feelings. This makes somewhere around the 10th time she's asked me if I was still going with her. Today she actually asked twice. I checked my email when I got to work and she had sent me 2 emails, one telling me how much fun she had with me on her birthday and the other making sure I was still going with her. I replied saying yes. Then later in the day she calls me from work asking me the same thing like she couldn't wait till after work to get the answer from her email. I don't know what to make of it other than she's being insecure. Thought I'd mention it as I thuoght it was curious. I won't say it had no effect on me, it was certainly a confidence and ego boost, even if it is a sign that she could someday fall back into codependancy.

[BMI]

Why did you call in the first place again?

Seems to me your life just got a whole lot more complicated when you picked up that phone and called her. Man, getting her back better be worth all this dude.

[SJB1701E]

She called me at my work Number...

Oh sorry, misunderstood you BMI. I hope its worth it in the end as well. I contacted her initialy because I think too much with my heart. Seriously our relationship only turned sour in the last 3-4 weeks or so before the breakup. Mostly it was good for the almost 2 years before that. Of course we had issues like everyone but none of them were deal breakers. Codependancy is something to be addressed before I go too far into the deep end. It basically comes down to pros vs cons and risk vs reward. At present things are still worth the effort to me. "If you want something bad enough play through the pain" "Nothing worth having is easy to obtain."

[BMI]

Listen SJB,

Do not get caught up in inspiration quotes and apply them to your love-life, they are a fantistic way to delude yourself into thinking your fighting the good fight but really set you up for hurt and heartache.

To be honest, you contacted way too early, your not ready for this, plain and simple. Only once you have come to terms with what happened before can you handle these situations, by the time that happens you usually have gotten over them (bless N/C).

I think this is folly, done it myself, read about others doing it, very rarely does it turn out well. I know you will not take this advice (I didn't) but rather justify what you are doing in the name of love and fate, regardless I wish you luck.

[Romefalls19]

BMI, I agree totally... He is jumping way too high with things right now. She calls, he calls right back. You haven't adjusted to things wihtout her yet, and she is still dependent on whoever she can latch onto. It seems to me that old problems that caused the relationship to end are just going to come back around and leave you worse than what you were. Is she even going to get help for her dependacy?

[talaniman]

Re-living the honeymoon seldom helps. Sooner or later it will be stone cold facts, and old feelings, and behaviors, that need to be resolved... again. The whole question will again be the same as it was, are you both willing to work together, to solve your issues, to the benefit of you both? Not can you still have a good time, with a lot of chemistry.

[SJB1701E]

Well tal, I'm glad you said that, because now we're getting down to the nitty gritty dirty, what went wrong and what can we do to fix it. We had a talk to day focusing on exactly that. Brutal honesty from both of us and talking about what we could do better. I also got emotional feedback from her and her feelings towards me. The reasons for her indecision. And what we can do to correct those issues. I expect more talks with her soon about it. She's still in love with me. She's very hurt by me. I don't trust her. She doesn't trust me. We agreed to start earning eachothers trust back one day at a time. It's a step forward. I feel better having got a lot out in the open with her. I decided, after encouragement from my therapist, that if I am going to be completely open and honest with her, I should do so boldly, and I did. And it got positive results. Still much work to be done, but now we aren't tiptoeing around the issues which means we can actually start talking them out and working on them. She says she wants to fix things. We both agreed to do it one day at a time.

[talaniman]

We both agreed to do it one day at a time.

There's hope as long as your willing to work. All to often when the newness, and fun wear off, people just drift apart, looking for new thrills. Relationships are about the work you put in, with your partners help.

[confused25]

She says she wants to fix things. We both agreed to do it one day at a time.

You're headed in the right direction. The willingness of both you to work things out is what is necessary to start over. However, as always remember to take things slow. Good luck and keep us up-to-date.

[SJB1701E]

Guys, here's an update. Still proceeding one day at a time, and slow. She hurt me today. I've decided to forgive her, even though many of you wouldn't. I found out about a rebound guy earlier this week from her being upfront and honest with me, and I was afraid to tell you guys because I didn't want all of you jumping to conclusions. I needed to see things on my own.

The rebound guy: Much older than her, hidden from her parents, they weren't dating, just "more than friends", which she explained meant there sere feelings involved and she was having a physical relationship with him to the point of making out and no farther. She said that they didn't get involved until after the breakup. When she told me about him she didn't tell me all this, just of his existence. All she would tell me is she had to talk to him about "things". Naturally I was uneasy and ready to head to the door and walkout of the situation, but I decided to see how it played out, being as she was being somewhat upfront and honest about it.

Today, I called her to set a definite get together time for our date on Friday. She answered and sounded really upset. I asked her what she was bothering her and she told me she ended things with the other guy today and that it didn't go cleanly. She said that she wanted to see where things go with me and that I deserve better than for her to be sneeking around behind my back with him while she was doing so. I told her I was hurt that she hadn't been completely honest with me to begin with, but I was going to forgive her. I stopped by her work when she got off and she met me in the parking lot. I hung out with her there for a little less than an hour. I asked her, and told her I was only going to ask once and then I would drop it and put a little trust in her, "Are you done with this guy and pursueing anything romantic or physical with anyone else while you are trying to work things out with me?" She said she was done and that all she's been able to think about is me since that last date. She said she was really sorry it had taken this long (almost 2 weeks) for her to decide to end things with him and that she was really worried that she had just screwed up any chance she had had with me by hiding it from me. I forgave her. She assured me I am the only one now and that she believes things will work out with me, but that she wants to go slow and not jump right back into a relationship because she believes that was one of the initial problems with our relationship the first time. We almost skipped dating all together the first time (somewhere around 3-4 dates before we were spending all day every day together). She said she thinks things will work out between us, but she believes we need to do a lot of things differently, which I agree with. She says that I've really changed, and for the better, and I've noticed some positive changes in her as well. I still feel a lot of hurt and some anger towards her, but I'm dealing with it. I especially feel hurt and anger over her hiding this guy from me, but I am taking a leap of faith now by trusting her and giving her the benefit of the doubt.

[talaniman]

I don't think she was hiding anything, and she has come clean. Go from there, and as you have said, you skipped the dating process before, so now enjoy it, and have fun getting to know each other, and see where it leads, just be realistic, and keep the eyes open.

[SJB1701E]

I don't think she was hiding anything, and she has come clean. Go from there, and as you have said, you skipped the dating process before, so now enjoy it, and have fun getting to know each other, and see where it leads, just be realistic, and keep the eyes open.

She has come clean, and that's why I forgave her. What she was hiding was the extent of the relationship with this other guy. When she told me about him, he was simply her "friend". All she had told me was that he was a close friend and that they weren't dating. Nothing about being physical with him or anythign else. She had told me when I had asked a week and a half ago that I wasn't in competition with him and I wasn't a backup guy and that she was seeing where things go with me. She hid (and continued) the sudo relationship with him during this time when I had trusted her that nothing was going on. She continued to be physical with him even though she told me nothing was going on. That's what she was hiding. But she ended it today, and came completely clean with me, so I am going to trust her. Sometimes all you have to run on is faith. Trust has to begin somewhere, and I guess this is where its going to start. And yes, we are going to go real slow, and yes, I will keep my eyes open. Thanks Tal.

[talaniman]

Being as there are no guarantee's in life, sometimes you just have to make a decision, and follow it as far as you can. As long as you stay honest with yourself, you should be fine. Life will break your heart sometimes, regardless of making all the right moves, and even the best decisions. It's a matter of dealing with whatever happens, and being true to yourself. If your afraid of rejection, you will never try to connect with another human, if your afraid to make a mistake, you'll never take a risk. If you don't try, you'll never have a darn thing. I tell you this because I think your mature eniugh to deal with it. I don't know how your story will end, but I wish the best. Let go of everything, but the notion of enjoying this time, with this female, and just pay attention.

[BMI]

I tell you I'm no fan of having to spread rep around. That was very inspirational T-Man, I absolutely LOVE the part about having your heart broken even though you dothe right thing (although I cannot say I have ever had that happen cause I've never always done the right thing but I'm sure it applies to others)

Consider this a greenie:)

To SJB, Listening and following T-mans advice would be doing the right thing, regardless of the outcome friend.

[SJB1701E]

I concur, BMI, that was one of the best things I've ever seen Tal post on here, not that Tal doesn't always give great words of wisdom that come from real life exerience. I need to spread some rep around as well, consider this a greenie Tal!

On tidbit of information that I found out today about said rebound guy. This will knock you an your arse. She's 21 years old... the rebound guy... he is 41 years old... I'm starting to be suspicious that I wasn't the biggest reason for her ending things with him. I feel a bit like throwing up. My parents are 42 years old. He's old enough to be her father. What kind of a sick pervert goes after someone half his age... not that I blame him entirely... was she thinking getting physical with someone twice as old as her... I'm a little sick right now. When she said slightly older, I was thinking maybe 5 years... not 20!

Opinions?

[BMI]

41 and 21 is gigantic. I, personally would not even date her I found that out. I know that sounds harsh but I know myself and I just could not deal with that. I once dated a girl who dated a guy 8-9 years older and when we got into fights I made much fun of her over it,I know it's the wrong thing to do but I just couldn't deal with it.

I know what you mean when you say it makes you feel sick. Sorry mate, I think you've already put way too much into this without this new info, with this added I say RUN!! These are the decisions she is making?

[SJB1701E]

I'm trying to determine if I can deal with this. Its taking a lot not to yell and scream at her about how stupid this was of her to do. I've openly expressed my disgust to her repeatedly and all she keeps saying is "I'm sorry I'm sorry", "I'm really stupid. I did a really stupid thing", and "I really f***ed things up." I don't know if this was her just making a mistake, or if this kind of stupid selfdestructive behavior is all I'll be able to expect from her now. I don't remember her making stupid decisions like this. Another even worse thought is that it was her acting purely on impulse and hormones, which makes me question her ability to make decisions all together, because that being the case, she didn't even stop to consider the consequences of her actions before acting upon them. Knowing the self esteem issues she has, that could also be a factor in her decision. Seeking validation of her self worth though attention from and approval from the opposite sex. That really only explains the *need* for a rebound and not the age gap though. I told her I need time to figure out if I can deal with this. One time mistake or slippery slope? I need to determine that and I need time to do it. Its disguting in all senses of the word.

I'm sorry I'm ranting, I'm not obsessing, I just need to vent. I'm trying to rationalize it to help myself cope, but its such an irrational act I can't figure it out. It makes no logical sense and therefor I can't grasp it. She "can't explain it" and I can't figure out how to cope. I need time. I'm not going to make the decision to press on or run without taking some time to think about this and whether I can cope with this.

[ItsHisLoss]

You've got to be kidding right? You act like 41 is ancient. I think you're just pissed that she dated anyone at all and if he had'nt been older you would've found something else to freak out about. I mean come on there are plenty of men over 40 that are crazy-sexy. 2 for example Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp. And that's just 2 off the top of my head.

[SJB1701E]

You've got to be kidding right? You act like 41 is ancient. I think you're just pissed that she dated anyone at all and if he had'nt been older you would've found something else to freak out about. I mean come on their are plenty of men over 40 that are crazy-sexy. 2 for example Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp. And thats just 2 off the top of my head.

Looking is one thing... Its not the "age of 41" I'm hung up on, it's the 20 year age gap. I think a 30 year old with a 50 year old is just as creepy. At 21 she is a child by comparison to a 41 year old. That is what I am hung up on. I find many women in their 30's and 40's to be attactive, but not to the point I would have a physical relationship with them when I'm only 22. I think people should stick in their age range. Yeah it bothered me that there was someone at all, but it was easier to deal with until she much later told me the age difference. If you were a parent in your 40's, even though she is an adult, how would you feel about your daughter having a physical relationship with someone that's about the same age as you are?

[Romefalls19]

SJB I completely agree with you. The age gap alone would make me hesitant. To ItsHisLoss, I wouldn't say it is the fact that it's anyone in fact but the age difference just makes you think twice about things. 41 might not be ancient but 20 years old is not something that should should be taken likely. It's his decision whether to forgive the girl for making that mistake. Personally I don't think I could forgive someone for that type of impulse, because what other bad decisions could she make on impulse