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    oneguyinohio's Avatar
    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #1

    Mar 23, 2008, 09:08 PM
    Viewing Earth (sun) in the past through satellites?
    If it is true that the light we are seeing from other galaxies is light that began traveling our direction long long ago, is it possible to see the earth at some distant historical time and place through a satellite?

    Am I overthinking it, or should the location of the earth (or sun) a million years ago be viewable since our solar system has been drifting through the universe?

    Maybe it's not possible, since we are not moving as fast as the speed of light?

    Any thoughts?
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
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    #2

    Mar 23, 2008, 09:15 PM
    We see the sun as it was 8 minutes ago, because it's 8 light minutes away. A star a million light years away we see it 1 million years in the past. However we cannot do anything to see it in the present.

    I'm not sure what you are asking.
    oneguyinohio's Avatar
    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #3

    Mar 23, 2008, 09:27 PM
    I'd like to know about seeing the earth a million years ago. Where it was in space...

    Or some other distant time... if it is possible?
    Credendovidis's Avatar
    Credendovidis Posts: 1,593, Reputation: 66
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    #4

    Mar 23, 2008, 09:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    If it is true that the light we are seeing from other galaxies is light that began traveling our direction long long ago, is it possible to see the earth at some distant historical time and place through a satellite?
    Am I overthinking it, or should the location of the earth (or sun) a million years ago be viewable since our solar system has been drifting through the universe?
    Maybe it's not possible, since we are not moving as fast as the speed of light??
    Any thoughts?
    Unfortunately lightspeed is the maximum speed possible in nature.
    Light from previous locations must have spread faster than the earth could move, and has to be beyond our reach, now and forever.
    The only possibility to still see it could be once that light has gone around the entire universe to return here.
    At that moment "we" will see it again - if at that time it is still visible, and if anyone will be around to see it , in many billions of years from now (minus that 1 million years) :rolleyes:
    I suggest we all wait for that moment then...
    :D
    oneguyinohio's Avatar
    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #5

    Mar 23, 2008, 10:06 PM
    That brings me a couple more questions.

    If light particles are given off during lights travels, does that mean there is a point when the light would stop because all of the particles have been given off.

    Is it possible to follow the path of particles given off?

    With the Hubble telescope viewing images closely connected with the Big Bang, why is that evidence still visible? Shouldn't that light also be invisible to us since it would have been traveling faster than we moved?
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
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    #6

    Mar 23, 2008, 10:50 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    That brings me a couple more questions.

    If light particles are given off during lights travels, does that mean there is a point when the light would stop because all of the particles have been given off.

    Is it possible to follow the path of particles given off?
    I don't follow.. light doesn't give off light, unless it's through some sort of interation

    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    With the Hubble telescope viewing images closely connected with the Big Bang, why is that evidence still visible? Shouldn't that light also be invisible to us since it would have been traveling faster than we moved?
    The big bang happened everywhere in the universe, then the universe expanded at every point, cooling as it went. The cosmic microwave background radiation is the remnant of the big bang, the photons reaching us from about 400,000 years after the big bang happened.
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
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    #7

    Mar 23, 2008, 10:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    I'd like to know about seeing the earth a million years ago. Where it was in space...

    or some other distant time... if it is possible?
    You'd have to be observing it at a point a million light years away from Earth.

    If we put a mirror out into space 500,000 light years away, and look in the mirror, you would be able to see the Earth a million years ago. But you'd need to wait more than 500,000 years to get your mirror in place (and there are other obvious technical problems.. )
    oneguyinohio's Avatar
    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #8

    Mar 24, 2008, 07:04 AM
    Thanks for your answers. It helped me understand better.
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
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    #9

    Mar 24, 2008, 07:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    Thanks for your answers. It helped me understand better.
    Please don't hesitate to ask more :)
    oneguyinohio's Avatar
    oneguyinohio Posts: 1,302, Reputation: 196
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    #10

    Mar 24, 2008, 07:36 AM
    Is the location of that background radiation then believed to be in the center of the universe?
    Credendovidis's Avatar
    Credendovidis Posts: 1,593, Reputation: 66
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    #11

    Mar 24, 2008, 08:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    Is the location of that background radiation then believed to be in the center of the universe?
    There is no "center" in the universe.
    There is no inside nor outside of the universe.
    Everything in the universe happens on some sort of expanding spacetime "skin".
    See "String" and "Brane" theories for that.
    :rolleyes:
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
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    #12

    Mar 24, 2008, 08:27 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    Is the location of that background radiation then believed to be in the center of the universe?
    No, it's coming from a sphere that is about 13 billion light years around us. The big bang happened everywhere in space, so these are the photons from the big bang that are just reaching us.
    Credendovidis's Avatar
    Credendovidis Posts: 1,593, Reputation: 66
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    #13

    Mar 24, 2008, 08:45 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Capuchin
    No, it's coming from a sphere that is about 13 billion light years around us. The big bang happened everywhere in space, so these are the photons from the big bang that are just reaching us.
    The Big Bang happened when spacetime was only a fraction of what it is today. Actually there never was a 'bang'. Just a superfast growth of spacetime. Note that we and everything else in the universe are part of that same expanding "sphere" that you mentioned. A four dimensional universe with width, length, height, and time. Einsteins acclaimed "expanding balloon" suggestion is a good three dimensional representation of that. (All other claimed dimensions still have to be proved to exist)...
    .
    :rolleyes:
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
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    #14

    Mar 24, 2008, 08:47 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Credendovidis
    The Big Bang happened when spacetime was only a fraction of what it is today. Actually there never was a 'bang'. Just a superfast growth of spacetime. Note that we and everything else in the universe are part of that same expanding "sphere" that you mentioned. A four dimensional universe with width, lenght, height, and time. Einsteins acclaimed "expanding balloon" suggestion is a good three dimensional representation of that. (All other claimed dimensions still have to be proved to exist) ...
    .
    :rolleyes:
    No, the CMBR sphere I'm referring to is due to the expanding light cone that grows at 1 light year per year (actually slightly more due to the expansion of spacetime).
    Credendovidis's Avatar
    Credendovidis Posts: 1,593, Reputation: 66
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    #15

    Mar 24, 2008, 09:15 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Capuchin
    No, the CMBR sphere i'm referring to is due to the expanding light cone that grows at 1 light year per year (actually slightly more due to the expansion of spacetime).
    I stand corrected!
    :D
    firmbeliever's Avatar
    firmbeliever Posts: 2,919, Reputation: 463
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    #16

    Mar 24, 2008, 09:52 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Capuchin
    No, the CMBR sphere i'm referring to is due to the expanding light cone that grows at 1 light year per year (actually slightly more due to the expansion of spacetime).
    How is this shape known?
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
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    #17

    Mar 24, 2008, 09:54 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by firmbeliever
    How is this shape known?
    The cone is just the shape on a 2Dspace-1Dtime graph, "light cone" is a term we use a lot. The actual shape in 3D space is a sphere (or pretty close to one) due to the uniform speed of light.
    michealb's Avatar
    michealb Posts: 484, Reputation: 129
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    #18

    Mar 24, 2008, 09:58 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    That brings me a couple more questions.

    If light particles are given off during lights travels, does that mean there is a point when the light would stop because all of the particles have been given off.

    Is it possible to follow the path of particles given off?

    With the Hubble telescope viewing images closely connected with the Big Bang, why is that evidence still visible? Shouldn't that light also be invisible to us since it would have been traveling faster than we moved?
    It's my understanding that light travels at speed of light, based on measurable perspective. Meaning that if your on a spaceship traveling at the speed of light. The lights in the spaceship work fine because from your perspective the lights aren't traveling faster than the speed light. So your flashlight would also work just fine from your ship but if I was trying to see the flashlight from a point outside your ship I would not see the light from the flashlight or the flashlight for that matter until it either past me or hit me because you can't see an object going the speed of light because your vision is based on the light bouncing off the object so if the object is going the speed of light the light that bounces off can't be seen until the object would have already gotten there in the first place.

    The mirror experiment would be interesting. I'd be interested in trying that, 500,000 light-years away might be tough but 16 minutes away might be doable.
    Capuchin's Avatar
    Capuchin Posts: 5,255, Reputation: 656
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    #19

    Mar 24, 2008, 10:03 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by michealb
    It's my understanding that light travels at speed of light, based on measurable perspective. Meaning that if your on a spaceship traveling at the speed of light. The lights in the spaceship work fine because from your perspective the lights aren't traveling faster than the speed light. So your flashlight would also work just fine from your ship but if I was trying to see the flashlight from a point outside your ship I would not see the light from the flashlight or the flashlight for that matter until it either past me or hit me because you can't see an object going the speed of light because your vision is based on the light bouncing off the object so if the object is going the speed of light the light that bounces off can't be seen until the object would have already gotten there in the first place.

    The mirror experiment would be interesting. I'd be interested in trying that, 500,000 light-years away might be tough but 16 minutes away might be doable.
    They have mirrors on the moon for precise range-finding, I wonder if they're big/useful enough to see a reflection of the earth. You'd be able to see ~2 seconds into the past ;)

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