[Toluca_86]

InSearchofAnswers,

I have sympathy for your girl here. I mean, I know people who have been raped, and it definitely has a big affect on people, and I commend you as a guy for being able to be sympathetic about it, because a lot of guys just don't know or don't care...

And I don't think you should necessarily assume she would cheat on you; I think you're probably spot-on in thinking she does this kind of thing to try and maintain some kind of power balance with you. She doesn't want you to think you have too much power over her (which may even mean that, really, you mean more to her than you know... or not)

I don't think you need to make her feel bad about herself for her choices -for wanting to remain friends with exes, or for wanting to tell you about her history, say. That's really a personal choice thing. I've dated guys who were much more open about that kind of stuff than I was, and ultimately I just decided that if I trusted the person, that kind of stuff (being best friends with an ex, etc.) shouldn't bother me. I mean, people are people and friends are friends, and in a society with fewer taboos surrounding sex, hopefully they wouldn't be any less so just because you've had sex with them...

But I also agree with the other posters that say that she may not meet your needs, and you have as much right to break up with her for that. In fact, you're probably not helping her if you're visibly unhappy a lot -martyrdom in a relationship is generally not practical or healthy. I wouldn't necessarily think your way is better, or that everything she does is just because she's "messed up" from a traumatic experience -I think that's over-simplifying. But you might just say to her: "I do x, y, z for you because you matter to me. I need you to do x, y, z for me... and when you do v, w instead it hurts me. This relationship just isn't working for me. If we can't compromise on this issue, I think we're not compatible, and it would be best to end this relationship to allow us to search for more compatible people..." Something like that. Something very honest and straightforward, where she won't feel like you're blaming her or accusing her of being "broken" or something...

Make sense?

[InSearchOfAnswers]

86

1st - thank you for your response. It's a complicated situation as you can see and I hate to read the "just get over it and move on posts"... I know those mean well, but its not that simple.

Im sure this whole situation isn't 100% due to the rape. I am smart enough to know that any traumantic event of any nature can affect how one thinks. Im sure losing ones virginity to rape/date rape can and problably has affected her approcah to sex. She's even told me so (random balclout sex when she was young and depressed in college).

But my point is she isn't fully aware how far that poison has spread into other areas of her mind. I don't blame her, and I don't pity her. I have respect for her being strong, but when she crosses certain lines that go from "strong" to "offfensive" (to me) it bothers me. I know she has had casual relatinships. I have too. I have told her this. My point is that I prefer not to hear it. I don't want to hear her talk up this great, super hot guy she met on a batchelorette party and randomly slept with for 6 weeks. What does that bring to the relationship? It doesn't paint a pretty picture and how does that help bring us closer? It doesn't - just the opposite. The real issue for me was she would do that over and over... finally I had to throw a fit and tell her STOP!! She did, but she didn't get it.

and I went to the therapist in an effort to learn how to politley speak about it and how to effectively communicate. I don't know one guy who would have gone through that so early in the relationship. I deemed her worthy. I respect her, but I expect respect back. I think that's only fair.

If she is hiding this guy to 'protect me' and nothing is going on, then she is actually hurting us. I told her this. Me catching her in lies doesn't help us at all and she realizes it but I guess when she gets back in town (shes currently out of town working - has been for a while now)...

and I don't make her feeel bad about her ex contact. The guys in mind were flings that lasted for a very short time (I don't consider that an ex). I just let her know it bothers me. And until very recently, she has told me "they contact me to see what im up to, so i contact them back" and overall I "show her problems but never give her solutions" so essentially she's sidestepping the fact that she could halt all the chatter... the real issue (for me) was 1. is this the rapes effects? 2. why does she have this 'need' to continue these relationships and 3. most importantly, why doesn't she put any effort into helping me solve our problems?

[Toluca_86]

Well, here are a few more things to think about:

Could be she's "playing games" to try and make you jealous, which is supposed to make you more into her/compete for her attention. As a young woman, I've gotten advice to do this from various older men and women both... Not sure that it's ever worked, though.

Could be something a little less conventional. Like here's a personal story (in brief): I had kind of a casual fling with a guy for a couple of months. Then he met someone he wanted as a girlfriend, and I found out first through a second-hand source. I was hurt and a little pissed, so I was fairly surprised when he asked me if we could stay in touch. Truth was though, I'd always felt a pretty strong connection to him, especially in a friendly way, so I decided to do it. So yes, I am still attracted to him, but also if I ever had a boyfriend who wanted me to cut off connection with this guy altogether I'd tell him to shove it; because to me, that's crossing my boundaries.

Could be she's not looking for any particular reaction from you, but rather /she/ wants to maintain contact with these people; or simply she prefers to have multiple guys she's attracted to in her life in some capacity, and it's not something she's willing to compromise for your sake.

Could be she's testing you. Maybe she wants to know that you trust her enough to not flip out over knowing she keeps contact with these people. Maybe she wants to really feel like you'll stick with her for the longhaul before she starts to invest herself more in you.

Or as suggested above, it could be purely a control thing, which could be partially due to having been raped. Or it could be combinations thereof. If she won't tell you /why/ she does it and she won't stop, I think you may just have to accept it as a part of her which she may or may not change over time, and you have to decide whether you can want to be with her as a whole.

As to your #3 I totally agree that is an issue. Which is why I suggested laying out the facts for her in the manner presented in my post above.

[Romefalls19]

I see a whole bunch of wrong in this post, and people probably won't agree with me on this subject. I have NEVER believed in that whole "so drunk I did this" crap. If you can't control your alcohol, then don't drink. Personally I think she is using the drinking as an excuse to run around being a tramp and I would put money on the fact she has cheated on you before.

Second, she lies because you will believe them and she doesn't think it's a big deal anymore. She's become so good at it that she actually believes them herself.

I have gotten really drunk myself(just turned 21 in August) so I know how that is, but NEVER have I even hooked up with someone and didn't remember it. If you want to stay with her, be my guest but it's only going to continue. She should really chose her friends better(girls I know wouldn't let their friend do that stuff)

I won't even touch the rape subject right now, too early. But I don't think the behavior she is exhibiting right now fits well with someone who has been raped before(I could be wrong)

Sorry I'm so grumpy this morning guys, and don't take the post as being too critical, I am just tired of the drunk excuse from people

[Homegirl 50]

I won't even touch the rape subject right now, too early. But I don't think the behavior she is exhibiting right now fits well with someone who has been raped before(I could be wrong)

You are wrong. A lot of the behavior she exhibits fits someone who was raped. She is acting out and she probably has a drinking problem. But he is enabling her by allowing her to disrespect him. He puts up with it and then complains. He should "pee or get off the pot", put up with it or leave her. But to say she is "really a nice person" while at the same time telling people about her bad behavior then patting himself on the back for putting up with it is not right.

[Romefalls19]

After looking up the information, it appears it goes either way, so I was not wrong, just not completely right. So I do apologize for making that assumption, but I do fully think he is using that as an excuse to kind of justify her behavior. She needs to seek counseling for this or it's never going to end

[Homegirl 50]

After looking up the information, it appears it goes either way, so I was not wrong, just not completely right. So I do apologize for making that assumption, but I do fully think he is using that as an excuse to kind of justify her behavior. She needs to seek counseling for this or it's never going to end

I agree.

[Toluca_86]

Romefalls,

There are not only two ways people can react to rape. People can react in many, many different ways, depending on individual differences. And also, different people recover at different rates.

I don't think it's accurate to say he's "enabling" her, because that indicates he has some ability to control her that perhaps he should be using, which in fact, he doesn't and he shouldn't... Fundamentally, rape is about control -it's about someone taking away someone else's ability to make choices about their own body. A crucial element to recovery of rape for most people is learning to reassert control over their own life and body in some form or another (this from someone trained to aid survivors of sexual assault). This is something many survivors have difficulty doing -which is why many survivors are prone to falling into abusive relationships, where their partner controls them too much.

For all any of us know, the things she's doing now are helping her to work through her issues, and she will reach where she needs to be to be happier with her own life in her own time. Ultimately though, she has to make her own decisions, and all anyone else can do is provide support, or let her know if the things she's doing are causing them to feel hurt.

Not to mention, according to what InSearch said, the only truly dangerous element to her behavior (blackout sex) is something she hasn't done for awhile.

I don't think she's deliberately disrespecting him, so much as it's her needs are different than his at this time (i.e. if she had her way, both of them would have more freedom and less of an overwhelming role in the other's life than he wants them to have). Counseling might help her, but of course no one can force her to go, and counseling isn't the only way to get better; also, counseling wouldn't guarantee that she would decide to act the way he wants her to act.

And Romefalls, it is absolutely NOT OKAY to just /assume/ someone is lying.

[Toluca_86]

To clarify, I was referring specifically to your comment that she was cheating on him, Rome. Not the small things that he /knows/ she lied about. (I mean, IMO she should be able to be friends with whoever she wants to -yeah it's odd she feels a need to lie about it, but at the same time if she felt like the inquisition was after her maybe she felt defensive)

[Romefalls19]

So basically what you're telling me is you think it's okay for her to go and sleep around? That's destructive behavior and anyone who says that's okay to do, is a moron.

Also, if you read his opening line in the post... He caught her in lies, so please do tell how in the blue hell was I "assuming" she lied? Please read the posts before posting your opinions. And had you read the post below Homegirl, I apologized for saying that's the only way someone could reacted, which is where I also put "(I could be wrong)" and after I put that, I went and researched the topic. And thus retracted my previous statement about the rape.

[Romefalls19]

I never said she definitely did, I just said I would put money on that she has because of her behavior that the POSTER describe. People in committed relationships do not behave that way and I'm pretty sure the majority of the forum members will agree on the fact that she is exhibiting the signs of a cheater. Hiding who the guy was on myspace(FLAG), Lying about who she was with a few weekends ago(FLAG)... But hey, if you don't considering them flags, that's your belief my friend

[Toluca_86]

In your first post you were more or less "assuming" that she lied about having cheated on him (you don't bet on something unless you're pretty confident it's true -well, unless you don't like money I guess). Pretty simple, from what I can tell.

And who, praytell, gets to decide what does and does not qualify as "sleeping around"? This is a country with a lot of diverse practices, and I refuse to get in some kind of puritanical moral debate with you.

When sex is bad is A) when it's not done safely (with protection, etc.), and B) if it leaves a person feeling worse about life in general, or when they are hurting someone such as a partner who has been promised monogamy. "Sleeping around" is not inherently destructive, and I am not at all a moron (well, at least according to our national academic standards). There are people who engage in behaviors you might call "sleeping around" and do it with respect for themselves and others and who feel perfectly fine about themselves and life in general afterwards. It's totally on an individual basis, and you can't make such generalized statements.

And I agree there's something to the lying about these guys she's friends with. But why, I wonder, was IKnows asking her about them, and although he doesn't think he's a jealous boyfriend, is it possible she perceives things a little differently? All I'm saying is that you have to look at things on an individual basis... and I provided several possible explanations above that didn't have to involve "she's cheating"

[jolienoire]

i have talked my head off about this. already told her i couldnt justify taking our relationship to the next level if she didnt lose the Xs ... she didnt budge

I think you know what you should do, Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does, If she is refusing to seek help how can she then turn around and use it as an excuse for her behavior, Sure there are women who are raped and behave in such ways as she does, but she needs to seek professional help and realize that this was a terrible thing, but its time to move on with one's life in THE RIGHT direction.

her excuse was that she didnt want to put undo pressure on me since i was inbetweeen jobs at the time

Since when is she really concerned about your emotions? She didn't want to put pressure on you but unfortanetely she is still holding on to the ex's... Sounds to me that you need to pause, STOP trying to help someone that doesn't want to be helped, and help yourself, And you can't continue to use her past to allow her to treat you the way she does. I know you want to be there for her, but don't allow her to bring you down in the process. If she doesn't want your help or HELP period there is no more you can do.. You can still love her from a distance

[Toluca_86]

"Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does,"

I don't think /she's/ using it to justify her behavior. I think /he's/ speculating that it might affect her behavior. (that was the impression I got from his posts)

[jolienoire]

"Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does,"

I don't think /she's/ using it to justify her behavior. I think /he's/ speculating that it might affect her behavior. (that was the impression I got from his posts)

"she has an excuse for everything.

Okay lets forget she was raped and exclude this out and go solely on her behavior.. My point is that he can't change her, and had he not known about her past he would probably not accept this behavior. My point is that its unfortanate that this happened, and she may perhaps be doing these things subconsciously.. But the reality is that he shouldn't be sticking around because he feels bad for her past, This is a very touchy subject, and everyone pyschologically is affected differently. However, if she mentioned it to him she wants him to know, but then she refuses to get help, and continue to act the way she does, Understand there is nothing he CAN DO he can either stick around and complain about it, Leave and be quiet about it, or just accept the way things are, and not try to change her. The end

[talaniman]

I wish I could find someone who wants, and deserves, my love...

She does, what she does, and either accept her for what she is, or move your life to another level. After two years, she hasn't changed, or has even been willing, take that as a fact, and deal with it, and stop trying to make her be someone she doesn't want to be. No shame in breaking up, just because your not a good fit. But it's a shame to stay, and HOPE, she changes. Love yourself, enough to realize, its her right to do as she pleases, and your right to make yourself happy. She ain't the one to make you happy. You can end all this confusion, and speculation, just by MAKING A DECISION, AND STICKING TO IT. Just me I'm long gone.

[Homegirl 50]

I don't think it's accurate to say he's "enabling" her, b/c that indicates he has some ability to control her that perhaps he should be using, which in fact, he doesn't and he shouldn't... .

He is enabling her in that he allows her to continue in behavior destructive to the relationship and continues to make excuses for her sticks with her puts up with it. It is saying to her, "it's OK to do this and treat me this way". Enabling is not controlling, but allowing a person to continue in their behavior even though you don't like it or think it's dangerous. It's like a person who makes excuses for an alcoholic, provides them with what they need knowing their behavior is destructive.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

Okay lets forget she was raped and exclude this out and go solely on her behavior.. My point is that he can't change her, and had he not known about her past he would probably not accept this behavior. My point is that its unfortanate that this happened, and she may perhaps be doing these things subconsciously.. But the reality is that he shouldn't be sticking around because he feels bad for her past, This is a very touchy subject, and everyone pyschologically is affected differently. However, if she mentioned it to him she wants him to know, but then she refuses to get help, and continue to act the way she does, Understand there is nothing he CAN DO he can either stick around and complain about it, Leave and be quiet about it, or just accept the way things are, and not try to change her. The end

"Her past she needs to get help own her own and can't use it to justify her behavior with every thing she does,"

I don't think /she's/ using it to justify her behavior. I think /he's/ speculating that it might affect her behavior. (that was the impression I got from his posts)

She doesn't justify her behavior due to rape... she - imo - can't see how the rape has affected her thinking at all.

one thing is for sure: she taking me for granted. I told her in an email this moring that I do everything for her and expect just a little grattitude in exchange. From my point of view she does the bare minimum to keep this relationship going.

she's still out of town, but when she returns, I'm going to put an end to it. I haven't fully decided if I'm going to break our lease and move out (she lives here, and with her $ situation, she can't afford an apt).

and that ^^ only complicates things since I know she will resent me for putting the rent burden on her shoulders.

fwiw, there is a lot of love in this relationship even though I have ranted about the problems. However it is obvious that her career is what's most important to her now.

[Toluca_86]

You could... live with her until the lease is up. I know it's never fun living with an ex, but I know a number of couples who've done this due to financial reasons.

Does your lease allow for subletting though?

[bizygurl]

again ... out of my scope of understanding, but when we first met she had this 'full disclosure' thing where she would bring up old friends - who she at some point sept with - or old BF or old friends with benefits over and over ... i told her many many times it bothers me to hear it. i know it has happened. i know we have both had sex. but why rub it in my face? to her, she honestly said she couldnt figure out why it bothered me since it didnt bother her. not would it bother her to hear my stories. but her insistance bothered me. i tried to tell her - im her BF so my feelings should matter. Thats what gets me.

And the full disclosure thing encompased her rape and then her 1st two years of school. She went to a few keg parties and drank too much, blacked out, barely remembers banging a guy. It has happened later in life with someone who she dated ... you get the picture. Thats all i was told about BTW

and fwiw she hates the term 'slut' ... she thinks its BS that girls are called sluts. She gives off this antirelationship vibe and exudes the 'i screw like a man' persona sometimes, but shes vulnerable and sweet underneath it all ...

InSearchOfAnswers, I think its normal to talk about one anothers past. Past relationships, past expierences but I think there comes to a certain point, especially sexual experiences when you really don't want to hear the for the millionth time how they banged 2 guys (or girls) in one night, how good it was. I don't blame you. My fiancée has had a lenghty past of that stuff, and although In the beginning I didn't mind as much to hear about it because I was curious, I don't really want to hear about it much anymore. Especially when he brings it up and I don't ask him to. I don't have a past like he does. I've only been with 2 men my whole life so in my case I can't compare to his. Its normal to feel that way. If it doesn't bother her then fine. That could depend on if you talk about your past often, if you don't then she may not care as much. If it bothers you as much as you say it does then she should probably chill out with it even if a little.

I know you said she was raped, but that, I would think would make her think about doing what she's been doing. Meaning, if she's putting herself in an environment or situations that something like that could happen again then why? And whether people think she's a "slut" or not, If she's exuding "i screw like a man" vibe and projecting that behavior while she's out, men are going to think that's who she is, regardless if she's sweet and vulnerable with you. I think her behavior just sounds like its causing a lack of trust, and although I'm sure she's a great person she may not be girlfriend material if that's what your looking for.