[marvin_082500]

As a gay man and Christian I was told by alot of people that homosexuals will not go to heaven but will go to hell instead. I know that alot of older people believe this and I think that is not true because god love everyone. He would not make homosexuals unless there is a chance of them going to heaven. My question is where (book and chapters) does it say that homosexuals will go to hell or where (book and chapter again) does it said that they will not or does it not say neither?

Homesexuals will go to hell if they have sex relationship with the same sex. Rome1:23-32

[Allheart]

Homesexuals will go to hell if they have sex relationship with the same sex. Rome1:23-32

Sorry, I think judgemental people may be ahead of them in line.

Awful thing to say without any loving advice.

[marvin_082500]

Sorry, I think judgemental people may be ahead of them in line.

Awful thing to say without any loving advice.

I just answer his question: if is there a bible verse saying homosexual go to hell.

[Allheart]

I just answer his question: if is there a bible verse saying homosexual go to hell.

I was wrong to have got upset, but I do worry the effect it could have on someone who just reads it and is not guided with love, the way God would do.

I do apologize to you - just realize there are people with feelings on the otherside of the monitor.

May your day be sunny.

[Galveston1]

Gay have a place in heaven.. I Tim. 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto knoeledge of the truth."

2 Pet 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(KJV)

"come unto the knowledge of the truth" includes the concept of "repentence". God forgives sin, but for that to happen there has to be repentance of that sin and a willingness to stop that sin.

It has been well said that attraction to the same sex is not sin until it is acted upon, any more that the temptation to steal is not sin unless the intent is there to carry it out.

Free advice is just that; free. If you really want to be right with God, accept what He says and ask Him to give you the strength to become what He has in mind for you, and that is that you eventually become like His Son.

[Moparbyfar]

Hey guys thinks alot for the posts. I would just like to say that I read some quotes from a post (by Moparbyfar) saying that being gay is wrong in the bible. Are there any quotes saying it is right to be gay? I know in my heart that god loves me althrough I am gay I am just looking to see what the bible has to say. Can any answer my question?

If there were scriptures proving that gays ARE accepted in the bible, don't you think God would be contradicting himself, since you've already seen the proof of gays, lesbians etc being a gross sin? Of course God loves you, that's the whole reason why he gave his precious son as a sacrifice for us ALL. The best way we can all show God that we love him in return is by fighting off our sinful tendencies to be found favorable in His eyes.
Sure, people say that being gay is not a choice, that it is in their genetic make-up, but this is also true of some alcoholics but with the right motivation, they can avoid drinking and lead a clean, sober life.
I truly believe that homosexuality can be avoided as proof of an American actor who changed his 'full homosexual" ways and became a minister of God (I have just finished reading this account) shows.
The question I have for you though, is are you really willing to change to SHOW God how appreciative you are of his ransom sacrifice? Many are clearly not.

[Fr_Chuck]

As I stated in a early post and then directed it differently in another post

While it is a sin, those that have accepted Christ are no differnent than any other sinner, They are still saved, but are a sinner. Now this is where the big fight normally comes, as with any sin, we should try and stop the sin, jesus as he said to other sinners in the bible when he forgave them, that they are forgiven but to go and sin no more.

And with all sin in our life, we are to admit the sin, to repent of that sin and to ask God to forgive us. So those are normally the issues that the gays I know have, they wish God to re-write the bible so they can remain in their sin and in fact have that sin declared a preferred way of life.

[Onan]

that it is in their genetic make-up, but this is also true of some alcoholics but with the right motivation, they can avoid drinking and lead a clean, sober life.

C'mon, your comparing homosexuality to a disease? I don't care who the person is it is always his choice to pick up a bottle. When he becomes addicted it becomes a disease. In most cases with homosexuals, they know early on they like the same sex. It's who they are. They are born that way. You are never born an alcoholic. Asking them to be straight would be like asking me to be gay. I know this is a christian board and I know you feel like your giving this guy good advice, but I cannot sit here and let this guy think there is something wrong with him. When he starts trying to be something he's not, that's when he's got a problem. When you can prove the bible was inspired by god and not man, and that it is without error then you can tell him being gay is a sin. Until then Brian, you just follow your heart and be who you are.

[Moparbyfar]

C'mon, your comparing homosexuality to a disease?? I don't care who the person is it is always his choice to pick up a bottle. When he becomes addicted it becomes a disease. In most cases with homosexuals, they know early on they like the same sex. It's who they are. They are born that way. You are never born an alcoholic. Asking them to be straight would be like asking me to be gay. I know this is a christian board and I know you feel like your giving this guy good advice, but I cannot sit here and let this guy think there is something wrong with him. When he starts trying to be something he's not, thats when he's got a problem. When you can prove the bible was inspired by god and not man, and that it is without error then you can tell him being gay is a sin. Until then Brian, you just follow your heart and be who you are.

Not born an alcoholic but born with a gene that leans them toward the likeliness of becoming one.
Is it OK then for people who are 'born with a short fuse' to emotionally and physically abuse others because that's just the way they are?
Imperfection... it's a real bumma, but it doesn't mean to say we let loose with all our "born with it" bad traits and call them acceptable.
Ultimately it is a gays choice to behave the way they do. You say you enjoy reading the bible, so why not read up on the ones that WERE living this way yet CHANGED to please God (1 Cor 6:9-11)... and while you're at it, why don't you prove BEYOND ALL DOUBT that the bible is just a history book with no relevance for today. :)

[NeedKarma]

..and while you're at it, why don't you prove BEYOND ALL DOUBT that the bible is just a history book with no relevance for today. :)

What does the bible say about telephones and cars and computers and airplanes and satellites?

[Moparbyfar]

What does the bible say about telephones and cars and computers and airplanes and satellites?

I have not been able to find a single telephone, car, PC, airplane or satellite yet that can teach me how to benefit my life fully.
These things are forever changing but the bible remains the same.
I would rather put my faith in something solid like God's word than "treasures on earth" that are only temporary.
Wouldn't you put your faith in a guidebook that's practical rather than one that's just full of empty 'words?'
From what I can gather, thousands of years ago people who worshipped the true God had laws and statutes they stuck to as a protection. Down through the ages though, many have turned away from these commandments and... gee! What a surprise, today we have sheer mayhem! Why? Because the practical advice given to them by their God has for the most part been ignored and they think they know better than their creator.
Anyway, sorry Brian, :rolleyes: getting a bit off the subject at hand aren't we.

[NeedKarma]

I have not been able to find a single telephone, car, pc, airplane or satellite yet that can teach me how to benefit my life fully.

That's how many of us feel about the bible.

[Credendovidis]

Previously Posted by Moparbyfar : I have not been able to find a single telephone, car, PC, airplane or satellite yet that can teach me how to benefit my life fully.

Reaction Posted by NeedKarma : That's how many of us feel about the bible.

Indeed : the bible neither teaches you how to benefit your life fully. It only projects a single view on life. The Christian view.
Good point!
:rolleyes:

[sassyT]

Indeed : the bible neither teaches you how to benefit your life fully. It only projects a single view on life. The Christian view.
Good point!
:rolleyes:

Okey, so here is a tip, if you don't like the "Christian View" don't read the Bible and don't dedicate your free time to reading what Christians Have to say on Christian Forums. Get a life basically.

[Moparbyfar]

That's how many of us feel about the bible.

Then I guess you're not a practical person, for eg: the bible speaks of putting an end to all wars. Sound practical to you? If we all learnt to get along and stop trying to kill each other wouldn't this be practical? The bible explains how these things will happen (Dan 2:44; Psa 37:10,11)
If you simply don't believe then I feel sorry for you, because far better off are we when buying a car/washing machine/cell phone or computer, to use the manual than try and use them the way WE THINK they should be used... we have a manual for life in the form of Gods Word. But now, thanks to the millions not using it properly or not at all, the breakdown in society is widespread.
Tell me, what is it that you find hard to accept about the bible? You can put this up in a separate thread if you wish, but curiosity has got me.

[Fr_Chuck]

I have not been able to find a single telephone, car, pc, airplane or satellite yet that can teach me how to benefit my life fully.
These things are forever changing but the bible remains the same.
I would rather put my faith in something solid like God's word than "treasures on earth" that are only temporary.
Wouldn't you put your faith in a guidebook thats practical rather than one that's just full of empty 'words?'
From what I can gather, thousands of years ago people who worshipped the true God had laws and statutes they stuck to as a protection. Down through the ages though, many have turned away from these commandments and...gee! What a suprise, today we have sheer mayhem! Why? Because the practical advice given to them by their God has for the most part been ignored and they think they know better than their creator.
Anyway, sorry Brian, :rolleyes: getting a bit off the subject at hand aren't we.

Airplanes, cars and all of that is mentioned, it is mentioned in the lust of thy neighbors property, it is mentioned when they talk about building up your treasure in heaven not on earth.. It shows you how to live a life of peace of spirit, the important issues of life. You want a drivers manual for a car, go to the DMV, if you want to know how to live your life in a happy manner, you read the bible. But I am glad you do agree that if you don't live by God's word, there is mayhem, it is only by following Gods word that there will be order and peace in society.

[Fr_Chuck]

C'mon, your comparing homosexuality to a disease?? I don't care who the person is it is always his choice to pick up a bottle. When he becomes addicted it becomes a disease. In most cases with homosexuals, they know early on they like the same sex. It's who they are. They are born that way. You are never born an alcoholic. Asking them to be straight would be like asking me to be gay. I know this is a christian board and I know you feel like your giving this guy good advice, but I cannot sit here and let this guy think there is something wrong with him. When he starts trying to be something he's not, thats when he's got a problem. When you can prove the bible was inspired by god and not man, and that it is without error then you can tell him being gay is a sin. Until then Brian, you just follow your heart and be who you are.

How do you know it is not a "disease" some bio-chemical make up, some gene that has changed, ** I am not saying it is, the issue is that no one can as for as I know what cuases it. What if we do though research find out that it is caused by something that could be treated, what then?

*** not saying we should or should not, but throwing it out

[Onan]

Is it OK then for people who are 'born with a short fuse' to emotionally and physically abuse others because that's just the way they are?

No, it's against the law. A person like that belongs in prison or a mental hospital. Last I checked it is not against the law to be gay.

Ultimately it is a gays choice to behave the way they do.

Yes, they have a choice to live a lie, or be who they are.

and while you're at it, why don't you prove BEYOND ALL DOUBT that the bible is just a history book with no relevance for today

Actually it's not even a good history book. It's a great read if your interested in the beliefs and culture, but that's about it.

As far as relevance for today? This is a whole other topic. I won't mind explaining why I know the Bible was written by man and only man though.

It would take a book to list all of the reasons but I will only name a few. It should only take one to discredit the whole thing but I know one would not be good enough.

2 kings
2:23 And he(Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

I have often wondered what this story is supposed to mean. Every time I have almost thought of a great meaning for this story I just couldn't help but think about those poor parents who lost their kids. Of course we know this story isn't true. No loving, caring God would ever do something like that. Which means there probably isn't much of a chance he had anything to do with the writing of this story either.

Another good read is Leviticus. You want to know about stuff that doesn't apply to today? Read that book. I will post a few verses from that book that doesn't sound like something from an all loving and caring God.

Leviticus 20
20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

[Onan]

Whoops, I didn't mean to hit post

Here is the rest of that post.

Anyway that's just a few. The book of Leviticus is filled with these horrible man made laws.

I find it hard to believe any loving, caring god would have anything to do with laws such as those.

Lets shift over to the NT for 1 more. If God had anything to do with the writing of the Bible then why did someone feel the need to create fake genealogies for Jesus to David if he had no physical father? That's something that didn't even need to be done if the guy was truly a demi god. The reason is because Jesus couldn't be the Messiah unless he was from the Davidic lineage. So man(who ever actually wrote the 2 gospels with the genealogies), had to tie it up some how. Did someone order a demi god? If a perfect God had anything to do with this, there wouldn't have been such an obvious mistake. The sad thing is the 2 genealogies from these guys don't even agree with each other.

There is so much more. The point is again,, The Bible was written by man, the laws were written by man. As time changed we decided as humans that most of those rules were useless but for some reason we still try to tell ourselves that other parts of the Bible still apply or is still true.

[Fr_Chuck]

No, the two genealogies are one from Mary and the other one from Joseph, since as his legal father under Jewish law, Jesus was and had the rights to inheritance though Joseph. Since he was not really Josephs son, this took into the consideration the Old testement of not being though that house but still tied him to it. And we have the one though Mary given. So no mistake, just your misunderstanding of what it was.

But you are right, man decided they did not need God's law, this is nothing new, man ran away from Gods law many times, and normally suffer for it.