[BABRAM]

As I listened to Obama address Republican fears, educating people in general to our country's racist history past and the hope of the future, I couldn't help but think of the past few days I spent, a person of Jewish extraction trying to relate to mostly Republican white Christians and agnostics on the dynamics of the African-American community. Those of Democratic Christian persuasion, time and time again understand Christianity in the historical perspective better than their counter parts of Republican constituency. IMO this is yet another reason blacks are more likely to vote Democrat. Even Republican news commentators on Fox gave him high marks for addressing anti-Obama concerns. Here again was proof of optimistic change challenging the old establishment that has entrenched politics as usual.

[NeedKarma]

Here again was proof of optimistic change challenging the old establishment that has entrenched politics as usual.

I think that's the salient point.

[tomder55]

Those of Democratic Christian persuasion, time and time again understand Christianity in the historical perspective better than their counter parts of Republican constituency.

Please explain the historical perspective that I evidently lack .

[NeedKarma]

One can read the entire text or watch the video of the speech here.

John McCain represents the past. Clinton, stagnation. Obama, the future.

[Dark_crow]

Yeah, but what is that future he so strongly wants to lead us to? Do you know in any terms rather than wild abstractions…give me something concrete about this new path to walk on into a new future?

[speechlesstx]

Bobby,

Like tom I'm not sure what "historical perspective" I lack, nor did I know there was a Democratic and Republican element of Christianity. We don't go to church and discuss politics, it's never mentioned from the pulpit of my church. We don't go to church and wonder who is a Democrat and who is a Republican. We don't go to church and discuss racial issues, we speak of how everyone is loved in God's eyes. We don't care if you're white, black, Hispanic, Asian or whatever, how you dress, how many tattoos or piercings you have, you're welcome there. We have regular members of all colors, backgrounds, economic status - just about anyone you can imagine. We give to support not only ministries to every area of the globe, but to provide basic needs regardless of who or where you are. We affiliate, worship and work with black churches, white churches and Hispanic churches in our city, and the only slogan I could possibly imagine that we might use similar to Obama's church is "unapologetically Christian."

That is how a church should be, and I imagine more than a few people are shocked to know that Jeremiah Wright's kind of divisive, hateful bilge is being spewed from pulpits across America in the name of Jesus Christ. It's no surprise to me but I'm sure it's been an education for many, and it isn't a pretty one.

Obama has also taught us that preferential treatment to blacks is expected. We can't treat black sin equally as white sin, a Don Imus or Geraldine Ferraro must be expelled and shunned for their slight sins. A racist preacher and his star pupil not only need understanding, forgiveness and acceptance, we must crown the pupil as the only hope of bridging the divide after lying to us about what he knew. We must look past the irony of understanding and embracing the "historical perspective" in order to move to the future with Obama. Here's a hint for Obama, "It's but little good you'll do a-watering the last year's crops. ~George Eliot."

Conservatives have rightly called Obama on this while the liberal media ignored it for as long as they could. All is forgiven now that as ABC radio news put it, "Barack Obama confronts racism today." I've been past racism since childhood, what's taking everyone else so long? When we rid ourselves of the Wrights and other race baiters, and when blacks understand the Democrats are invested in keeping racial fires burning, maybe then we can "move on."

Yep, it's been a real education.

The sharp folks at Sweetness & Light give a perfect example of the inequality and double standards that Obama stands for:

Obama: Fire Imus

Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus’ Firing Over Racial Slur

By JAKE TAPPER

April 11, 2007—In an interview with ABC News Wednesday afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. called for the firing of talk radio host Don Imus. Obama said he would never again appear on Imus’ show, which is broadcast on CBS Radio and MSNBC television.

“I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus,” Obama told ABC News, “but I would also say that there’s nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude.”

Obama said he appeared once on Imus’ show two years ago, and “I have no intention of returning.”

Last week, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women’s basketball team, most of whom are African-American, as “nappy-headed hos.” He has since apologized for his remarks, and CBS and MSNBC suspended his show for two weeks.

“He didn’t just cross the line,” Obama said. “He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African-American women — who I hope will be athletes — that that somehow makes them less beautiful or less important. It was a degrading comment. It’s one that I’m not interested in supporting.”

Though every major presidential candidate has decried the racist remarks, Obama is the first one to say Imus should lose his job for them…

“What we’ve been seeing around this country is this constant ratcheting up of a coarsening of the culture that all of have to think about,” Obama said.

“Insults, humor that degrades women, humor that is based in racism and racial stereotypes isn’t fun,” the senator told ABC News.

“And the notion that somehow it’s cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have First Amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul-searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids,” he concluded.

I wonder how much toxic information was fed to his two daughters at his church.

[BABRAM]

please explain the historical perspective that I evidently lack .

The Black theology part. What else have you been missing? May I suggest Ginko Bolaba? Does wonders for the memory.

[tomder55]

OK then I'm willing to learn . What is it about black separatist liberation 'theology 'that is not racist ?

[BABRAM]

ok then I'm willing to learn . what is it about black separatist liberation 'theology 'that is not racist ?

I see you missed part of Barack's educational lecture on history. Here's what I wrote a few days back on the very same subject, Black Theology: "A theology, that was a counter to what I'd describe as hundreds of years of White theology. This stems from a time when slavery was the norm for parts of the US, and black men begin to question what kind of Christians were white slave owners that taught all men were created equal?! From this, today, the message still carries liberal implications on the political front."

Like tom I'm not sure what "historical perspective" I lack, nor did I know there was a Democratic and Republican element of Christianity. We don't go to church and discuss politics, it's never mentioned from the pulpit of my church..

Whoa! Stop right there! I can't read any further into your reply. I can't believe you actually wrote that. You found the one Christian church in America not influenced, persuaded, of political ramifications ever? Next your going to tell me the pastor and congregants don't vote? The view of pro-life has never been raised in your church? The view of helping humanity is of no consequence of subject in services? Freedom of religion means nothing to your pastor? Freedom of speech? What the hell! Whole colleges have been formed, some religious, that are adjoined to secular academics. Strong-willed good men became civil lawyers after being raised as children in the environment of churches and synagogues, just to promote the rights of all. Presidential candidates have made remark after remark about their religious upbringing. I'm just astonished at some of the arguments and excuses made by my peers. All I can say is, "WOW!" I'm going to try and let this forgetful moment wear-off and then maybe I'll check back in later after reading some other threads. WOW!

[Skell]

Way to go Bobby. You nailed it!

[speechlesstx]

Whoa! Stop right there! I can't read any further into your reply. I can't believe you actually wrote that. You found the one Christian church in America not influenced, persuaded, of political ramifications ever?

Now that's fair, Bobby. First, I'm speaking of what Christianity is about, and Wright's theology is not it. Second, I think I know more of what my church is like and about than anyone else here. I'm not here to lie about it and I darn sure know what a Christian church should be about, I've experienced both the good and bad - but nothing like Wright offers.

Next your going to tell me the pastor and congregants don't vote? The view of pro-life has never been raised in your church? The view of helping humanity is of no consequence of subject in services?

Of course the issue of life has been raised in my church, theologically, not politically. I've already said helping humanity is what we're also about, free from political influence and bias.

Freedom of religion means nothing to your pastor? Freedom of speech? What the hell! Whole colleges have been formed, some religious, that are adjoined to secular academics. Strong-willed good men became civil lawyers after being raised as children in the environment of churches and synagogues, just to promote the rights of all. Presidential candidates have made remark after remark about their religious upbringing. I'm just astonished at some of the arguments and excuses made by my peers. All I can say is, "WOW!" I'm going to try and let this forgetful moment wear-off and then maybe I'll check back in later after reading some other threads. WOW!

How does what our rights may mean to my pastor necessitate political ramblings from him in the pulpit? Exercising them does not mean he must be offering political rantings from his pulpit, but I think you know that.

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes, I listened and was scared to death, for 20 years he went to a church, was married by the pastor, and so on, and he did not know what the pastor stood for ?

God help us if he has to choose a Supreme Court Judge if he does not know what his own Pastor stands for.

And of course Obama did not actually address the issues if he believed in what his pastor taugh, and if not why did he continue to go to that church. Even a answer like it was good for his politial carrier.

And I did not know that the Democratic Christians stood for rasist teachings and radical hatred for their country, I guess if they support what Obamas pastor was teaching, that sure explains a lot.

I would say that those that actually want equal rights and actually want the races to get along, have no place with anyone associated with this pastors hatred and rasism.

And it has noting to do with Christianity, since Christianity is not rasist in any terms, and of course Jesus was jewish, from the house of David.

[BABRAM]

Now that's fair, Bobby. First, I'm speaking of what Christianity is about, and Wright's theology is not it. Second, I think I know more of what my church is like and about than anyone else here. I'm not here to lie about it and I darn sure know what a Christian church should be about, I've experienced both the good and bad - but nothing like Wright offers. Of course the issue of life has been raised in my church, theologically, not politically. I've already said helping humanity is what we're also about, free from political influence and bias. How does what our rights may mean to my pastor necessitate political ramblings from him in the pulpit? Exercising them does not mean he must be offering political rantings from his pulpit, but I think you know that.

I'm just in wonderment that a pastor in the US could neglect one for the other. A pastor that lives by the laws of the land, which was afforded to us by the Noachide laws. I will not go into the history from a Jewish perspective, but I'm shocked that a pastor appears unaware of Biblical studies. My friend, you're not understanding that Wright affixed his opinion, his view, that he piggy backed on "Black Theology." BTW Obama addressed that today. The theology itself is fairly sound. It's not the theology that is at fault for the comments that you, I, and Obama denounces. Black Theology is taught by many churches, mainly made up of African American congregants, but some Caucasians as well.

[speechlesstx]

I'm just in wonderment that a pastor in the US could neglect one for the other. A pastor that lives by the laws of the land, which was afforded to us by the Noachide laws. I will not go into the history from a Jewish perspective, but I'm shocked that a pastor appears unaware of Biblical studies. My friend, you're not understanding that Wright affixed his personal opinion, his view, that he piggy backed on "Black Theology." BTW Obama addressed that today. The theology itself is fairly sound. It's not the theology that is at fault for the comments that you, I, and Obama denounces. Black Theology is taught by many churches, mainly made up of African American congregants, but some Caucasians as well.

Here is the point I neglected to make, Bobby. We view our church as an oasis... we not only go there to worship and serve God, but to escape from the world's stresses, to get away from the politics and nonsense we live with every day. Why would we - or any other worshiper - want to bring that into our sanctuary? That's what shocks and amazes me, that anyone, left, right or center, would want to turn their sanctuary into a political cauldron and that anyone would put up with the hateful, conspiratorial, racist, over the top toxins of a pastor like Wright in the very place they should be going that's free from that sort of thing. I get more than enough of that elsewhere, I darn sure don't want in my 'oasis.' That my pastor sees to it that it is an oasis focused on God speaks highly of his biblical understanding that God is love, peace, rest for our spirit.

[BABRAM]

Yes, I listened and was scared to death, for 20 years he went to a church, was married by the pastor, and so on, and he did not know what the pastor stood for ?

God help us if he has to choose a Supreme Court Judge if he does not know what his own Pastor stands for.

And of course Obama did not actually adress the issues if he believed in what his pastor taugh, and if not why did he continue to go to that church. Even a answer like it was good for his politial carrier.

And I did not know that the Democratic Christians stood for rasist teachings and radical hatred for thier country, I guess if they support what Obamas pastor was teaching, that sure explains alot.

I would say that those that actually want equal rights and actually want the races to get along, have no place with anyone associated with this pastors hatred and rasism.

And it has noting to do with Christianity, since Christianity is not rasist in any terms, and of course Jesus was jewish, from the house of David.

I'm hearing about fear that I think is unwarranted. My concerns are recent economics and that's real to most of us, regardless of color. Wright's not running for president, no more than Hagee. Obama did address the issue of Wright's mistaken views today. Perhaps you have the sound down on the TV, or missed relevant parts of the lecture. And about racism it's not something for us to neglect. Other than Ferraro's recent gaff, I don't think Democrats are under fire for racism here though. One more thing, provided that Jesus even existed under the guise of messiah, it's less important that he was Jewish by ethnicity. Moshiach has specific qualifications and according to Judaism, and IMO looking back at the last two thousand years, Jesus didn't meet the criteria. But I understand that you believe that Jesus, according to Christianity, should have no place in racism. On that I agree and respect.

Here is the point I neglected to make, Bobby. We view our church as an oasis...we not only go there to worship and serve God, but to escape from the world's stresses, to get away from the politics and nonsense we live with every day. Why would we - or any other worshiper - want to bring that into our sanctuary? That's what shocks and amazes me, that anyone, left, right or center, would want to turn their sanctuary into a political cauldron and that anyone would put up with the hateful, conspiratorial, racist, over the top toxins of a pastor like Wright in the very place they should be going that's free from that sort of thing. I get more than enough of that elsewhere, I darn sure don't want in my 'oasis.' That my pastor sees to it that it is an oasis focused on God speaks highly of his biblical understanding that God is love, peace, rest for our spirit.

I can understand that, but it's a church, in the US, not a monk monastery in Tibet. Which BTW monks are not so quite now-in-days. Black churches have had more challenges than predominately non-black churches considering issues in society. OK. I'm getting the idea here that African-American churches and Jewish shuls have more in common with social issues than other Christian congregations.

Yeah, but what is that future he so strongly wants to lead us to? Do you know in any terms rather than wild abstractions…give me something concrete about this new path to walk on into a new future?

I'm not sure you were asking NeedKarma in Canada, or me? I think it's fairly clear that if NeedKarma could vote it would be for Obama. However, as a US citizen, I can vote and think you've asked a good question.

Most of Obama's main opposition is coming from McCain and Clinton supporters and early on they have focused on three arguments: 1) Obama gives great speeches, but no substance or 2) he doesn't disclose (share) specific views on the issues or 3) he lacks experience to be president.

All three are absurd tactics.

1.) Obama is an educated speaker, no doubt. Both McCain and Clinton are jealous to have Obama's talent. When the opposition brings this up, it's rather a foolish ploy that in actuality means that both McCain and Clinton lack Obama's communication skills. My future is with the communicator.


2.) None of the candidates have given specifics to numerous issues while on stints campaigning. However, I outlined Obama's take on Israel in another post: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/politic...er-183587.html. We have learned that McCain would keep on the warpath for one hundred years, and that by his own admission, even though our country is in the midst of a recession the economy issue is not his strongest subject. All the candidates, including Obama, have several websites covering information on most of the top issues and I think we all know how to use the search engine. When the two major party's finally get their nomination represented in the general election they will debate, discuss, and dissect the issues on National TV. Tune in. My future is with someone level headed enough to provide diplocmacy that we have been sorely lacking.

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Issues

Barack Obama on the Issues

Barack Obama: On the Issues | Presidential Election 2008 - Candidate Profiles, Photos, Quizzes and More | Reader's Digest

Barack Obama - Issues & Ideas - 2008 Presidential Candidate - National Platforms

Election Center 2008: Candidates - Election & Politics News from CNN.com



3.) Last time I checked none of these front-runners have had presidential experience: Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and Barack Obama are all senators. My future is with the highly educated senator that was a civil rights lawyer and understands the challenge to overcome divisiveness.

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[SkyGem]

As I listened to Obama address Republican fears, educating people in general to our country's racist history past and the hope of the future, I couldn't help but think of the past few days I spent, a person of Jewish extraction trying to relate to mostly Republican white Christians and agnostics on the dynamics of the African-American community. Those of Democratic Christian persuasion, time and time again understand Christianity in the historical perspective better than their counter parts of Republican constituency. IMO this is yet another reason blacks are more likely to vote Democrat. Even Republican news commentators on Fox gave him high marks for addressing anti-Obama concerns. Here again was proof of optimistic change challenging the old establishment that has entrenched politics as usual.

And here's some more things to educate Americans with.
Newsmax.com - Obama Minister&#39s Hatred of America

[BABRAM]

And here's some more things to educate Americans with.
Newsmax.com - Obama Minister&#39s Hatred of America

Hi Sky-

That's old news, but exactly why Obama publicly re-addressed his own thoughts concerning Wright's opinion. I hope you didn't discard the eduction for Republican biases.

[SkyGem]

Hi Sky-

That's old news, but exactly why Obama publically re-addressed his own thoughts concerning Wright's opinion. I hope you didn't discard the eduction for Republican biases.

Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most in my opinion. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.

[Wondergirl]

Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said?

There's a photo of everyone with hand over heart and saying the pledge and Pres. Bush has his hands over his crotch. What does THAT mean?

[Skell]

Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most imho. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.

Your about 5 threads too late! Keep up!