[azhuettl]

I have a leak from my shower. The water appears to seep from wall at baseboards into bedroom closet. How can I find and repair? Home built in 1996. Is that type of shower/tub built on a base of 2x4's or is it set right on the slab foundation. I am thinking I could cut access hole in closet wall to look if the tub is up off floor. Or can I see the drain if I cut access hole in family room wall directly behind shower faucets? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Tom

[massplumber2008]

Hi AZ... Is this a tub and shower... or just a shower?

If tub and shower... does this leak appear after shower.. or after tub... or both? Get back to us with answers.

[speedball1]

I'm going to assume that you have a custom tile shower and not a tub and shower combo. On a slab house we leave a shower dap-out in the slab for a shower. I think you'll find your leak i9f the tile grout and not in the drain. Notice where the shower stream hits the tile wall as your showering. Over time tile grout can shrink allowing to run down the wall and out on the floor.
Before you tear up anything regrout the tiles and then check for leaks.

Now I'm assuming you have a tub and shower combo. We set our tubs on the floor and we always leave a access panel directly behind the tub waste. If you do not have one the cut a 12 X12 square and check out the trap and waste assembly. If you don't see a drainage leak then focus on the tile grout. Good luck, Tom

[hkstroud]

Pull escheons and trim away from valve and shower arm, with flashlight look in to see if signs of water leaking in these areas. Tempoarily block drain, fill pan with bucket, wait, then release drain to see if pan or drain is leaking. If no signs of leak start looking for missing or cracked grout.

[azhuettl]

Hi again. Did not realize this would be such a great resource and so quick! I should have taken more time on compossing the question. Now I will.
I am also posting a picture (hope it works). This house was built in 1996 and is a slab in Arizona. The water appears to come from the back (long) wall wich is a walk in closet. The water appears to be coming out at the baseboards and the wall does not look wet. There is no noticeable wetness in the room outside the short wall (faucet wall).The renter says they stopped taking baths and with only showers it appears to still be wet. I am ruling out a supply leak as I think there would be more water with a constant leak. I figure it must be a drain leak or shower arm leak. If I want to cut an access hole to inspect, where should I cut. The back (long) wall or the wall behind the water controls and shower head. With a slab foundation is it even possible to view the drain and inspect for leaks without removing the tub. Also, while I have you reading, the renter claims to run out of hot water too quickly and thinks I need a new water heater. The water heater is gas and she gets water that is plenty hot, just claims to run out. I was told by local store that if the water is hot, then there is really nothing else that can be wrong with a gas heater as there is no core? The heater is not leaking anywhere. Thanks in advance for all help.
I am handy but have no past plumbing experience, looks like I will get it now though..

[azhuettl]

HI,
I need to tear into the project this weekend. Any help/suggestions are appreceiated.

[massplumber2008]

Hi AZ... start by removing the tub/shower valve faceplate... remove handle, then remove face plate and then run shower. With a flashlight... look inside.. up/down... everywhere you can. If leak's at shower arm behind wall.. should be dripping onto the valve right in front of you. If leaking at the valve.. should also be obvious. Chech at the diverter tub spout as well (unless shower diverter in on shower valve.. then check there)... sometimes leaks inside the tub spout shell and leaks back into wall where can't be seen out front.

Then, with the tub/shower unit you have, if opening face plate did not show the leak... I would open the wall behind the shower valve at the floor level up to about 18 inches off floor (you have a 1 piece tub/shower there... unless a hole somewhere... problem is over by the valve/waste lines). This way can see entire tub drain and all pipes associated with the job. Try the faceplate first.. let us know what you find.

Just reread post... the guy at hardware store is wrong... if a water heater is getting really hot water, but runs out way too quick then it is time to change the GAS VALVE to the heater. NOT a tough job... but need some good skills and good common sense as this involves shutting off gas to heater and loosening a union fitting... so be sure you are confident with skills before tackling this one by yourself.


If this helped, please RATE THIS ANSWER. Thank you.

[hkstroud]

Well with a one piece tub and shower you are pretty limited as to where you can have a leak.
Assuming no cracks or damage . That is a one piece isn't it? Only place I can see any potential for leaking is the bar or handle. Because water is coming out along the back wall baseboard does not neccarily bean that's where the leak is located. Pull the escheon around the shower arm away from the wall and look for leak. Remove Knob and trim plate and look around valve for signs of leak. Finally run water in tub, let it sit for a while to check for leak around tub flange. Let drain to check for leaks in pipe.

Where is shower door or curtian?

On water heater
Mark what about dip tube?

[massplumber2008]

Hi Harold... you know it could be the dip tube, too... I suppose... but I think it would be a more dramatic issue with almost no hot water coming out of heater at all (cold would just feed up and out the hot water outlet almost instantly).

Let's see if Mr. AZ can give more information on that.

Mr. AZ... does hot water last 5 minutes... 10 minutes... 15 minnutes... less? Is temp. very hot, scalding... warm? Let us know so can best advise you.

ALso, AZ, add a clear midewproof silicone around the grab bar if not sealed super well... cannot hurt anything... but I think leak will be over by the drain/shower valve. Let us know.

[azhuettl]

Hi I will start with pulling the trim away from faucet and arm to check there. If no leak spotted then I guess need to cut wall behind faucet area and try filling the tub to look for leaks. Then drain and check? Never thought about the handle, will check that too. It does appear to be a one piece molded or whatever they do and I have not noticed any cracks. No shower curtain in picture as it was taken before renter moved in.

Water heater:
Renter claims about one shower worth of hot water, long . Short . Not sure. Can check with her later. The water temp is set hot and starts very hot.
I am putting pics on, wondering wich is the gas valve that would need replacing; red handle, copper in back, or yellow line attacment? Pictures are my current house not the one in question. Both are gas though.

I will be out of town with no access until Friday night. Will look back then before starting project on Saturday. Thanks for all info so far, and keep it coming if you think of anything else. I will post after my first repair attempt.

[azhuettl]

Just realized I do have a picture of water heater, no close up yet though.
Might help for you see it anyway.
Tom

[azhuettl]

Now I'm wondering what the gas valve does exactly? How can that affect duration of hot water? I kind of understand the dip tube.

[massplumber2008]

The gas valve includes the gas valve and the thermostat (really an aquastat in a sense)

The aquastat (under gas valve, inside well fitting that is immerssed in the water of tank) controls temperature of the heater and the duration of time the gas valve allows flame on. If gas valve (aquastat) was defective it may not allow the burner assembly to fire when thermostat called for it... so, may be getting fluctuations in heating/maintenance of temperature. That could lead to decreased volume of hot water... ALSO could lead to extremely hot water which should cause the temperature and pressure relief valve to open and alert you guys to an unsafe condition.

Anyway, what size is that heater... looks like a 30 gallon. A 30 gallon gas fired water heater should provide about 45 gallons of hot water the first hour of use (30 gallons stored... 15 gallons recovery rate).

So, taking a shower at 2.5 gals./min (standard shower head rating).. and figuring that 1.5 gallons of that 2.5 gal./min. is actually hot water... tenant should be able to shower for roughly 30 minutes without excessive drop in temperature. How long can tenant last? This weekend... run shower yourself and see how long... if good for 5-10 minutes.. then drops off... then gas valve or gas burner assembly underneath is defective. Get back to us.

[azhuettl]

Hi, I finally got to the tub today. First I checked the little triangle spinner in water main and it was not moving at all. Then I removed all the trim so I could see pipes behind. I saw no evidence of prior leak. I ran shower and tub while looking for pipe leaks, saw none. Good news, did not appear to be leaking from copper supply lines. I could also see down to the slab from faucet hole. Looked a little wet on base 2x4. I checked again after draining almost a full tub of water and it did not appear to get any damper. Then I removed the overflow plate and there was NO gasket in place.. So I purchased a gasket and decided to wait on cutting hole in wallboard to check main drain. Lets hope it stays dry now. With no overflow gasket the water must have went straight to the slab below.

* should I open wall to dry slab and 2x4's or will it dry well enough without?

WATER HEATER; water temp set very hot and water starts very hot. I ran for 15 minutes while checking for leaks and no drop in temp. Renter now claims they get 2 showers before losing temp. Must be OK?

[massplumber2008]

Hi AZ

Glad nothing yet... I think! The gasket missing at the tub waste and overflow assembly is a good find.. maybe that was it after all. Maybe not?! *crossing fingers*

And amazing how they get 2 showers now... huh? Sounds OK for now, and the picture of the gas valve suggests that it is set at approximately 125 degrees or so... so they should be good to go.

Hey, let us know if that pesky leak shows itself. Take care.

If my answers helped please RATE THIS ANSWER. Thank you.


.

[hkstroud]

Should not be necessary to cut wall to replace overflow gasket. Remove overflow cover, slip gasket in between tub and overflow.

[massplumber2008]

Harold... the way I read it.. he did replace the gasket... He said, "So I purchased a gasket and decided to wait on cutting hole in wallboard to check main drain".

I wonder... what did he mean? Hey AZ... did you slip that tapered gasket in from the front and tighten faceplate? If not, follow Harold's post.

Harold... sharp as a tack my man... sharp as a tack!

[azhuettl]

Thanks guys.
I did slip the gasket in from the front. I hope not to have to cut wall to check the drain for leak.
Then, assuming the leak stop now; I was wondering if I need to cut open the wall in order for the slab and woodwork to dry out completely of if it should dry up fine otherwise.

[hkstroud]

Should dry on its own. Boy, did I miss read that. So soreeeeee!!

[azhuettl]

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the help!
I love this site and have been telling everyone this is the place to look for help.
I will post ratings on the answers.
If the leak 'springs' again, I will be back to this thread for more help.