[Greg Quinn]

Even most atheists agree that Jesus was a person who walked the earth. The evidence from history is only very weakly arguable.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And there are a ton of facts that I have read referring to the biblical portion of zeitgeist that prove there are flaws within its narration, so called factual evidence, and other small discrepancies that are arguable. Misinformation can have some directive to teach those who know a little, confuse those who are too scared to know and confirm debunker ridicule. Complex +&- advertising is classic propaganda. We have to be careful not to believe every movie, article, but investigate for ourselves. Weighing the facts and errors, and taking into account the time that has passed I expect there to be flaws in any explanation of why, where and how it all started. This to me so far even with noted flaws seems most likely to be the likelier truth.

[Allheart]

[QUOTE=ScottGem]

Hey Greg, I am going to tell you what i know about God, HE DOES NOT EXIST. /quote]

Hate to split hairs here, but you do NOT "know" he doesn't exist. Anymore than a christian "knows" he does exist. If there was conclusive proof one way or the other, it would have been found by now. What you mean is you BELIEVE he does not exist. And you are entitled to that belief and there are many factual and logical arguments that can support your belief and vice versa.

But this debate has raged for millenia and will rage for millenia to come because there is no absolute proof one way or the other.

One again - worth the repeat Scott. And to me for either side, where facts stop, faith takes over.

[BMI]

If I had the option to rate your answer Allheart I give you a big old greenie for that response:)

GREG - For all the back and forth, it seems to me that you really have taken a liking to this video, as it provides a lot of answers you seek. I'm not sure what's left to discuss other than that?

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

BMI-a deserverable green one for you as well. What's left to discuss is an argument that will repeat itself unitl the end of our days. Nothing is written in stone so to speak.

[Allheart]

Very true - round and round we go :)

Well, I just offer the viewing of this... from my heart to all of yours... It's something that I always tend to say to myself and others...

Listen to your heart - When your thoughts quiet - and nothing else remains - Listen to your heart.

[Greg Quinn]

I love it, I just erased a 15 minute response. GRRRR! Great post Scott.

ScottGem]What I think Greg wants is someone to refute the facts as stated in that documentary. For example. Is what they said about Horus correct? While there is a difference between truth and fact, one can deal with hard facts.

SCOTT
That being said, there is one issue I have with one of the points that were made. They referred to the virginal birth of some diety on Dec 25th, but December 25th has not always been the same. Different societies have had different calendars. The western calendar that we use today was instituted by Pope Gregory XIII in the late 16th century. At the time 10 days were eliminated during October (see: A Brief History of the Western Calendar) So it would appear that its impossible for all those deities to have been born on Dec 25. Now if the documentary had said all those deities were born 3 or 4 days after the Winter Solstice, I would find it more credible.

That is a popular question I still have no answer for, I have been looking it up and am having a hard time researching it, I lack the experience. This is where I am now in looking at it as possibly mistaken information regarding Horus... [QUOTE Alien Embryo] Horus' birth was actually celebrated during the month of Khoiak, (October/November). Though some critics claim Horus was born during the winter solstice, this shows more of a relationship to other pagan religions which considered the solstices sacred. The date of December 25th for the celebration of the birth of Christ was introduced in the 5th century, and was merely a continuation of the Roman festival of Saturnalia, which was celebrated in the Roman empire. The Roman Emperor Aurelian blended Saturnalia with a number of birth celebrations of saviour Gods from other religions, into a single holy day: DEC-25. After much argument, the developing Christian church adopted this date as the birthday of their saviour, Jesus. The people of the Roman Empire were accustomed to celebrating the birth of a God on that day. So, it was easy for the church to divert people's attention to Jesus' birth. It is just a date chosen for celebration.[/QUOTE].. But even if that is correct, I would consider it to be an expected flaw that still has a logical explanation ( I'll keep looking). I am new to this astrological concept, actually I'm unfamiliar with astrology all together. But the literary similarities between Egyptian and Christian religions are too massive to be ignored, and to me'' well worth the research.

On the other hand, I've long believed that Christianity incorporated a lot of pagan and naturalist symbology. Therefore, I accept a lot of the points made about the zodiac and astrology being at the core of a lot of these beliefs.

I think there are to many similarities to let it leave our minds as merely coincidences.

I've said, on several occasions, that I do not believe in organized religion. I believe religion was created by man to explain things he could not explain otherwise. I believe it was also established before strong national governments came into being to provide a framework for morality.

This is something I too believe, it seems I have ended countless discussions with that point, just never so elegantly put. I believe zeitgeist supports that theory in many ways.

One other point the documentary seems to be making is the similarity between the tales of the Bible and other religions. For example, the event of a flood. The fact that a flood story exists in several different religions tells me that something likely did occur.

I have always considered the "Noah's Ark" story to be nothing more than a silly tale that I never believed in grade school. I believe there were many great floods, and even giant monsters that walked around the earth long before we got here. That is truly a story that requires magic and faith to be true. American Atheists - Debate - Noah's Ark

And the use of one of George Carlin's diatribes on religion was very apt. One should listen to Carlin's routines on God and religion. Those have the ring of truth to me.

Unfamiliar with this and will look it up. I'm stalling on finishing my home gym, upon finishing I have to quit smoking. Those are the rules, well... Maybe I can stay on for a few more minutes.
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

[Allheart]

[QUOTE=Greg Quinn]I love it, I just erased a 15 minute response.


Any you say there's no God, ever heard of Divine Intervention :D

LOL kidding... joking... it's Friday... I'm being silly... Mr. GQ ;)

( Ya have to admit... pretty good line though, eh ?)

[jillianleab]

What I do find interesting about the whole thing is that the OP, stating that he has been an atheist his whole life, would be researching and watching movies about whether God exists or not. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying there is anything wrong with that in the least, although most people who have a firm beleif in something need not search for supporting evidence if indeed they were 100% satisfied with that beleif. Most beleivers, most I say, do not entertain every theory or article written to base their faith upon, to support what they beleive or question themselves. Thats why not everyone would feel the need to watch the video, it would make very little difference.

What's wrong with wanting to learn? Wanting to learn, to really understand why believers believe the way that they do? What's wrong with getting information and hearing other people's opinions and thoughts? You're a believer, you are (I assume) 100% satisfied with that belief, right? Does that mean you don't read about religion, about other people's religious experiences, about "god's work"? Ever pick up a bible (assume you're a Christian, sorry, I don't know!)? Why would you do all that if you are 100% satisfied with your belief?

There's a difference between entertaining every theory and article, and viewing only a few that are of particular interest for one reason or another.

PS: These questions are really just rhetorical, you don't have to answer them! :)

[Greg Quinn]

If I had the option to rate your answer Allheart I give you a big old greenie for that response:)

GREG - For all the back and forth, it seems to me that you really have taken a liking to this video, as it provides alot of answers you seek. I'm not sure whats left to discuss other than that?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL... I suppose I do.
Thanks for your response.

[BMI]

Lol... I'm not going to answer those questions Jillean, however, I do believe I mentioned there was nothing wrong with researching the topic.

[Greg Quinn]

What's wrong with wanting to learn? Wanting to learn, to really understand why believers believe the way that they do? What's wrong with getting information and hearing other people's opinions and thoughts? You're a believer, you are (I assume) 100% satisfied with that belief, right? Does that mean you don't read about religion, about other people's religious experiences, about "god's work"? Ever pick up a bible (assume you're a Christian, sorry, I don't know!)? Why would you do all that if you are 100% satisfied with your belief?

There's a difference between entertaining every theory and article, and viewing only a few that are of particular interest for one reason or another.

PS: These questions are really just rhetorical, you don't have to answer them! :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree... I've studied both sides of religion, I've never only had a one way view.

“Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.”

Mark Twain quotes

[jillianleab]

lol...I'm not going to answer those questions Jillean, however, I do beleive I mentioned there was nothing wrong with researching the topic.

You did say that, and I wasn't trying to "attack" you or anything (hope you didn't take it that way!); but you also said most people who have a firm belief in something need not search for supporting evidence if indeed they were 100% satisfied with that belief.. My questions were more to give you perspective and realize why someone would choose to search for more evidence and more knowledge.

You're a smart guy, I think you figured it out! :)

[nicki143]

The noahs ark thing well mabe they were a great flood Here in Hull engand on June 25th last year the whole of hull virtually flooded and they is not a day goes by that it is not mentioned in the papers or on the loacal radio so it will still be mentioned in years to come.
And as all storys go down the line it will no doubt change and before long some it will end up like the noah story that is all it is a story built on something that may or may not have happened

[Greg Quinn]

[QUOTE=Allheart]

I love it, I just erased a 15 minute response.

Any you say there's no God, ever heard of Divine Intervention :D

LOL kidding....joking....it's Friday...I'm being silly...Mr. GQ ;)

( Ya have to admit...pretty good line though, eh ?)

-------------------------------------------
I could feel him (GOD) urging me to push that "Esc" button.

[Allheart]

[QUOTE=Greg Quinn]

[B]
-------------------------------------------
I could feel him (GOD) urging me to push that "Esc" button.

No my dear friend, He pushed it while you weren't looking ;)

[Greg Quinn]

The noahs ark thing well mabe they was a great flood Here in Hull engand on june 25th last year the whole of hull virtually flooded and they is not a day goes by that it is not mentioned in the papers or on the loacal radio so it will still be mentioned in years to come.
And as all storys go down the line it will no doubt change and before long some it will end up like the noah story that is all it is a story built on something that may or may not have happened

______________________________________
______________________________________

X-mas 2005- I was at my mother in-laws house, talking to her friends and hubby. These people are all very educated professors at the University of Alberta, I was awestruck at how when a PBS special came on they all started talking about the "ark" and how there finally may be proof of it's existence. I sometimes forget that it doesn't seem as silly to some people as it does to me.
At the same time the Tsunami had struck a few hours before and they showed no interest. I was dying to get home and watch the BBC, I'm sure they looked over at me to the sound of teeth grinding with the odd tooth explosion. Being an Atheist comes with having to almost bite your tongue off sometimes. Now @ X-mas I keep a mouth guard in my pocket. JK

[BMI]

I get I Jillean, I do.

I WOULD like to clarify, however, it is 3:42pm here on a Friday and I've exeeded my quota of intelligent posts for the day, that being 1. I'm sleepy and all I can do from now to quitting time is make fairly obvious jokes and think about how they get the caramilk into the caramilk bar.

Oh, and how dare you accuse me of being intelligent:)

[jillianleab]

I get i Jillean, I do.

I WOULD like to clarify, however, it is 3:42pm here on a Friday and I've exeeded my quota of intelligent posts for the day, that being 1. I'm sleepy and all I can do from now to quitting time is make fairly obvious jokes and think about how they get the caramilk into the caramilk bar.

Oh, and how dare you accuse me of being intelligent:)

So noted. I expect nothing but bumbling idiot responses out of you for the rest of the day! Don't let me down! :D

[BMI]

K,

God good, mee like, have a good endweek:)

See you.

[workerbee]

To BMI sorry about the caps I do it so it won't be missed. I'll watch it next time. Everyone it seems ignored what I said about prayer. Even Mother Terasa had many doubts for 50 years she wrote to her priest friend who had her letters published recently. She said things like God was silent when she prayed. So the no faith argument does not work she spent her life trying to help and got no answers. That should be a red flag to most of you.
I used to be a Christian but had so many questions I read from scholars over the years I just ended up an atheist. My belief is based on research, fact and observation, so yeah there is no God, not a Biblical god that's for sure and jesus if he existed was probably illiterate. He said that illness is caused by sin, does that sound like God speaking or an illiterate?

workerbee