[NeedKarma]

I hope you don't mind if I throw my $0.02 worth. :)

...but then decided that if I didn't trust the lord, then I didn't trust myself.

Do you believe in the afterlife? Resserection? Armegadon? Revelations? Ghosts? Entities? Spirits? Souls? I would love to hear your opinion on those!

I trust myself without a lord, it's quite easy, you actually do it everyday as well. I don't believe in afterlife nor resurrection nor armageddon (except that our sun will blow up some day), Revelations... what's that? No ghosts, entities, spirits, souls in my life. Anything you want to know?

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

I hope you don't mind if I throw my $0.02 worth. :)I trust myself without a lord, it's quite easy, you actually do it everyday as well. I don't believe in afterlife nor ressurection nor armageddon (except that our sun will blow up some day), Revelations...what's that? No ghosts, entities, spirits, souls in my life. Anything you want to know?

... lol well that sums it all up for you! Revelations is a prophecy in the bible that is the 'end of the world.' Thank you for your million dollar answer!

Just a quick though, your username is needkarama, why? Karama isn't actually an object, but a belief.

[NeedKarma]

My answer was worth a million dollars? Cool.

BTW it's not karama but karma. I kind of use this definition:
"All living creatures are responsible for their karma — their actions and the effects of their actions "
Karma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

So basically, if I do wrong it will come right back at me?

[NeedKarma]

Not immediately. That used to be the joke about instant karma, you screw someone over and you get hit by a bus 2 minutes later. Hehe.
Nah, I believe that if you do mean things to others it will come back to haunt you.

[ScottGem]

Boo! :D

[Greg Quinn]

bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE

Hello Greg,

I, myself, watched the entire clip (yes all 2 hours of it!) and might I say that although there were some good 'pointers' in it, people endlessly try to find excuses not to have faith. Why? Because something that is not 'physically' there is unreal. Because you posted this thread, expect to hear the worst. Don't assume that you are going to read what you want to. You asked for opinions; you asked for a discussion and now you are going to get one.

I apologize if I offended your beliefs and do not want to 'argue' over this matter. In my opinion, faith and trust walk in the same shoes. I can understand why it is difficult for most people not to believe something that isn't even there. At one time I did question my beliefs as well, but then decided that if I didn't trust the lord, then I didn't trust myself.

Do you believe in the afterlife? Resserection? Armegadon? Revelations? Ghosts? Entities? Spirits? Souls? I would love to hear your opinion on those!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe in the scientific afterlife, being recycled into the earth. No, I do not believe in resurrection I believe it to be a mislead concept explained very clearly in the documentary as the procession of the equinoxes. I am not a spiritual person at all, so it is a no to the rest of your questions. There is a great difference between trust and faith (contrary to Gerald's views) I have never taken offence to anyone's views against my beliefs. You said that people try to find excuses not to have faith, I find that to be a little insulting, there is a difference between excuses and reasons. In this documentary alone (which was supposed to be the topic) there are a ton of reasons a person would rely on fact based logic and not faith. I have a hard time understanding people who don't understand that.
As for "getting for answers I don't want to hear", my question was watch the movie and I would like to see if you can find problems or flaws within its contents, find a truth other than the one I have come to believe. The majority of the answers in this thread are from people who have not watched the documentary! No, those are not answers I want to hear. I want to discuss the contents... Not how I came to believe what I believe, or why. I've been getting 2 cent answers from people who either never paid attention to its contents, skimmed through it, or watched the first minute. I am yet to get a discussion of any value.

BBRUNETTE)Don't assume that you are going to read what you want to. You asked for opinions; you asked for a discussion and now you are going to get one.

Where is it? I just get irrelevant questions, here it is: My beliefs are reflected in part 1 of zeitgeist, that would be the answer to all of your questions. It's that simple, any insults that have been put out [QUOTE BBRUENETTE]Might I say that, umm, people have become brainwashed?[/QUOTE] could come right back at you, considering my beliefs, I could say the same thing. I have not tried to insult anyone's beliefs, I belong to other forums where people debate and argue. I ask, what conclusion do you come to after viewing zeitgeist? If I get an answer like " I think its crap" I would want to know why. People are so quick to jump on with one leg but refuse to share the reigns.

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

Not immediately. That used to be the joke about instant karma, you screw someone over and you get hit by a bus 2 minutes later. Hehe.
Nah, I believe that if you do mean things to others it will come back to haunt you.

Okay, exactly my point. It is a belief. This said 'karma' is not an actual object you can see, feel or hear so how can you believe in that, but not the lord? I'm sorry if I have offended you with this question :)

[NeedKarma]

You haven't offended me at all. The way I view karma is not related to an unseen being in the sky, it's a societal thing. If you are a jerk to everyone then you run the chances of being shunned by people, being alone, etc. If you want to say that it is a belief then I'm fine with that if that makes you feel good.

Dans ta signature tu parle de confiance en soi et d'être heureux avec soi-même avant d'être avec un autre - je crois à ça aussi. :)

[bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE]

I believe in the scientific afterlife, being recycled into the earth. No, I do not believe in resurrection I believe it to be a mislead concept explained very clearly in the documentary as the procession of the equinoxes. I am not a spiritual person at all, so it is a no to the rest of your questions. There is a great difference between trust and faith (contrary to Gerald's views) I have never taken offence to anyone's views against my beliefs. You said that people try to find excuses not to have faith, I find that to be a little insulting, there is a difference between excuses and reasons. In this documentary alone (which was supposed to be the topic) there are a ton of reasons a person would rely on fact based logic and not faith. I have a hard time understanding people who don't understand that.
As for "getting for answers I don't want to hear", my question was watch the movie and I would like to see if you can find problems or flaws within its contents, find a truth other than the one I have come to believe. The majority of the answers in this thread are from people who have not watched the documentary!! No, those are not answers I want to hear. I want to discuss the contents... Not how I came to believe what I believe, or why. I've been getting 2 cent answers from people who either never paid attention to its contents, skimmed through it, or watched the first minute. I am yet to get a discussion of any value. Where is it? I just get irrelevant questions, here it is: My beliefs are reflected in part 1 of zeitgeist, that would be the answer to all of your questions. It's that simple, any insults that have been put out could come right back at you, considering my beliefs, I could say the same thing. I have not tried to insult anyones beliefs, I belong to other forums where people debate and argue. I ask, what conclusion do you come to after viewing zeitgeist? If I get an answer like " I think its crap" I would want to know why. People are so quick to jump on with one leg but refuse to share the reigns.

Again, you jump to think that I am trying to insult your beliefs. I am not! Understand that! I really did watch the whole documentary Gregg, and am not giving 2 cent answers as you quote. With discussing this topic and just like any other topic, comes opinions, and that is what we are all doing. Tell me what exactly you want to discuss since you are not getting the responses that you want? If you want peple to list flaws, be prepared for their opinions. It is so hard to put a label on what is the truth and what we are mislead to believe because there are always going to be people who think otherwise.

[workerbee]

I'm an atheist and have been since I was very young. I always had a great argument due to being brought up in a religious home, but never had the answer as to how religion came into play. My friend brought this video over to my house and it seemed a little boring at first, then about ten minutes into it, I realized this may very well be the answer to my question!! I've researched arguments against the facts here and have found none that out weigh the obvious. The thing is, I'm shocked at how it was in my face and every ones face all this time. Please watch this segment and tell me what you think and if you can see another truth. Best regards, Greg Q

Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007

Hey Greg, I am going to tell you what I know about God, HE DOES NOT EXIST. There are thousands of gods, which one do some of the people that responded believe in? Zeus, how about Apollo? People believe in the God od their community. No one can prove Jesus even existed. He was mentioned never during his life only after. If he did miracles he should have attracted many contemporary writers but did not. Also he never left any writings in his own hand why not? That should have been something he would have wanted to do. Some think if he did exist he was illiterate that's why no writings. As I have stated in other threads Prayer does not work at all.
This is not just my opinion it is a fact. The AHJ did a 3 year 2.4 million , 1800 patient study
There conclusion was that Intercessory prayer doesn't work, that should tell you something
There is so much more I want to say but I don't want to make this too long. Go to my signature, there you will find a forum that will help you understand in more detail

workerbee

[BMI]

Wonderful, another thread about the existence of God. I should know better but here is my take.

First off, one can post thousands of movies, books, articles, about the existence of God, supporting it or refuting it. Also, its intresting to note that all the non-beleivers here like the film and find it "concrete" whilst beleivers here seem to be against it. So really this is just another argument about religion, there are tons of them on this site.

What I do find interesting about the whole thing is that the OP, stating that he has been an atheist his whole life, would be researching and watching movies about whether God exists or not. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying there is anything wrong with that in the least, although most people who have a firm belief in something need not search for supporting evidence if indeed they were 100% satisfied with that belief. Most beleivers, most I say, do not entertain every theory or article written to base their faith upon, to support what they believe or question themselves. That's why not everyone would feel the need to watch the video, it would make very little difference.

Myself being a beleiver, I can say that it is more of a feeling, a faith that cannot be swayed by any argument against the existence of God or reinforced by any argument supporting the existence of God, it's just my own personal belief. One writer, whom I cannot remember his name, many ages ago, wrote that he believed in God but found it useless and wasteful to explain why. His reasoning being that we as humans cannot possibly understand God, why he created Earth and so on. So his view was that he just believed, but he could not logically explain why, I think that is very applicable to many a beleiver.

[Gernald]

Just wanted to point out the zeitgeist is a the german word for spirit of the age, I'm kind of curious why they used this title and not something else? Any ideas?
I guess spirit of the age could be the modern religon of atheism, but atheism dosen't believe in a spirit, right?
Confused!!

[RickJ]

Even most atheists agree that Jesus was a person who walked the earth. The evidence from history is only very weakly arguable.

[Allheart]

Wonderful, another thread about the existence of God. I should know better but here is my take.

First off, one can post thousands of movies, books, articles, about the existence of God, supporting it or refuting it. Also, its intresting to note that all the non-beleivers here like the film and find it "concrete" whilst beleivers here seem to be against it. So really this is just another argument about religion, there are tons of them on this site.

What I do find interesting about the whole thing is that the OP, stating that he has been an atheist his whole life, would be researching and watching movies about whether God exists or not. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying there is anything wrong with that in the least, although most people who have a firm beleif in something need not search for supporting evidence if indeed they were 100% satisfied with that beleif. Most beleivers, most I say, do not entertain every theory or article written to base their faith upon, to support what they beleive or question themselves. Thats why not everyone would feel the need to watch the video, it would make very little difference.

Myself being a beleiver, I can say that it is more of a feeling, a faith that cannot be swayed by any argument against the existence of God or reinforced by any argument supporting the existence of God, it's just my own personal beleif. One writer, whom I cannot remeber his name, many ages ago, wrote that he beleived in God but found it useless and wasteful to explain why. His reasoning being that we as humans cannot possibly understand God, why he created Earth and so on. So his view was that he just beleived, but he could not logically explain why, I think that is very applicable to many a beleiver.

So beautiful said. One of the best, and there have been many good ones on this site, but one of the best.

It is a struggle for belivers to voice their love as most don't want to offend and when asked for proof, faith is hard to capture into words or events and is not something you can point to.

All I can offer is if you were here, I would take your hand and ask you to look into my heart. I just don't know how to share it better then that.

[BMI]

Oh one more thing.

For all the testiness that is involved in such arguments I do findit amusing that those who do not believe in God are very adamant about expressing this belief, BOLD LETTERS AND CAPS LOCKS STATING THAT GOD DOES NOT EXIST!!

Quite the enlightened fellow that can claim that with the utmost belief. Not that there is anything wrong with feeling that way, just seems comical that the beleivers are labelled "touchy" and thatalot of this argument is based on beleivers not being able to Prove the existence of God, while the non-beleivers can Prove he does not exist with... a... video?

[Greg Quinn]

Thanks Scott!

[Greg Quinn]

Hey Greg, I am going to tell you what i know about God, HE DOES NOT EXIST. there are thousands of gods, which one do some of the people that responded believe in? Zeus, how about Apollo? People beleive in the God od their community. No one can prove Jesus even existed. He was mentioned never during his life only after. if he did miracles he should have attracted many contemporary writers but did not. Also he never left any writings in his own hand why not? that should have been something he would have wanted to do. Some think if he did exist he was illiterate that's why no writings. As I have stated in other threads Prayer does not work at all.
this is not just my opinion it is a fact. The AHJ did a 3 year 2.4 million , 1800 patient study
there conclusion was that Intercessory prayer doesn't work, that should tell you something
There is so much more I want to say but I don't want to make this too long. Go to my signature, there you will find a forum that will help you understand in more detail

workerbee

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll take a look, thanks for your input.

[ScottGem]

If you want peple to list flaws, be prepared for their opinions. It is so hard to put a label on what is the truth and what we are mislead to believe because there are always going to be people who think otherwise.

What I think Greg wants is someone to refute the facts as stated in that documentary. For example. Is what they said about Horus correct? While there is a difference between truth and fact, one can deal with hard facts.

That being said, there is one issue I have with one of the points that were made. They referred to the virginal birth of some deity on Dec 25th, but December 25th has not always been the same. Different societies have had different calendars. The western calendar that we use today was instituted by Pope Gregory XIII in the late 16th century. At the time 10 days were eliminated during October (see: A Brief History of the Western Calendar) So it would appear that its impossible for all those deities to have been born on Dec 25. Now if the documentary had said all those deities were born 3 or 4 days after the Winter Solstice, I would find it more credible.

On the other hand, I've long believed that Christianity incorporated a lot of pagan and naturalist symbology. Therefore, I accept a lot of the points made about the zodiac and astrology being at the core of a lot of these beliefs.

I've said, on several occasions, that I do not believe in organized religion. I believe religion was created by man to explain things he could not explain otherwise. I believe it was also established before strong national governments came into being to provide a framework for morality.

One other point the documentary seems to be making is the similarity between the tales of the Bible and other religions. For example, the event of a flood. The fact that a flood story exists in several different religions tells me that something likely did occur.

And the use of one of George Carlin's diatribes on religion was very apt. One should listen to Carlin's routines on God and religion. Those have the ring of truth to me.

[ScottGem]

[quote=workerbee]Hey Greg, I am going to tell you what I know about God, HE DOES NOT EXIST. /quote]

Hate to split hairs here, but you do NOT "know" he doesn't exist. Anymore than a christian "knows" he does exist. If there was conclusive proof one way or the other, it would have been found by now. What you mean is you BELIEVE he does not exist. And you are entitled to that belief and there are many factual and logical arguments that can support your belief and vice versa.

But this debate has raged for millennia and will rage for millennia to come because there is no absolute proof one way or the other.