[morgaine300]

I do have to disagree about Hills prescription foods, however. (It doesn't have to be Hill's, Purina makes some prescription diets, as do some other companies.) I don't have a problem with grocery store brands if the animal is otherwise normal. The prescription diets are formulated with specific medical problems in mind.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree back. Some of those so-called "formulations" aren't anything special at all that cannot be found in other foods. I don't recall mentioning "grocery store brands." I do NOT feed grocery store brands. I was talking about looking into some truly premium foods that are tons and tons better than nearly all of the prescription foods. And most problems that the prescription foods are given for are things that a good, low-carb, all canned, no grain diet can take care of. Many of these problems are started because of the bad food to begin with.

And most prescription foods are not good quality! Hills is crap. Purina isn't much better. It doesn't do much good to feed a supposedly special food when the ingredients aren't very good, they are too high carb, and the protein is coming from more plant than animal.

You, like everyone else, are just quoting what everyone else says. Have you ever actually researched any of this? I know of no person who has actually researched feline nutrition that would recommend Hills.

Here's the low-down on Hills D/D canned duck limited ingredient food. First, only 29% of the calories come from protein. That's too low for a cat. The long-term affect is anemia and other problems. Second, 17% of the calories come from carbs. In the wild, a cat would only eat about 5% or less carbs. It's body doesn't know what to do with all those carbs. It damages the pancreas and eventually can cause diabetes. There's no excuse for a canned food to be that high-carb. The only excuse is cheap filler ingredients.

Third, here's the beginnning ingredients: Water, Duck, Duck Liver, Ground Green Pea, Powdered Cellulose, Soybean Oil, Pea Protein Concentrate, Brewers Dried Yeast, Fish Oil, Glucose...

One trick is listing the pea as two separate ingredients. If it were one, it might be higher on the list since it's by amount. (I don't have a huge problem w/peas per se, but it's just too much.) Cellulose is undigestible. Some cats are allergic to soybean, so there's a great option when checking for allergies. Pea Protein. How about MEAT protein, like a cat is supposed to eat. Fish oil can be a good thing, but I never trust a food that doesn't say specifically what it is. What kind of fish oil? And glucose? Why put glucose into a cat? Glucose is what you stick into a diabetic when they're having a hypo. Cats turn protein into energy.

Good starting point, in plain English, of feline nutrition:
http://www.newdestiny.us/nutritionbasics.html
But there's a whole lot more out there.

If there is a food allergy, the food must contain a novel protein and carbohydrate source, in other words, something the animal has never been exposed to before.

While this part is true, you don't need a prescription food to do this. Why does one need a prescription to get a food that is one protein source? There are foods out there that are like this, which are better quality than the prescription foods. The only fairly good quality limited ingredient prescription food is IVD.

And the problem of keeping the cats out of each other's food! I don't even have a suggestion for that one!

Feed all the cats a good-quality canned food. Then it won't matter if they get into each other's food.

[morgaine300]

The only fairly good quality limited ingredient prescription food is IVD.

Actually, I take that statement back. I forgot that Royal Canin bought them out, and despite their price tag, don't think much of them. (Their food is full of corn, bad bad ingredient.) And I can no longer find the ingredients or any reasonable information on their site, which always makes me leary. I emailed them about this and got no response, so I guess they don't care what their customers think.

It may or may not be the same food it was. But there's always a solution to that: look at the label.

[morgaine300]

I was one of the ones that lost a inside cat from the tainted food, and Walmart still has not bought the rest of the food i had got that night, t

Call the manufacturer and see what they have to say about it.

[topladyj]

Rpg219 7 Topladyj - I do aplogize, when I answered this post about the caty ,there was no more then her post saying about her cat, so I took everything wrong, even befor I got to your post rpg219 reading all the posts on here i realized that I had put my big foot in my mouth, and I was going to post to her a apolagy. I was one of the ones that lost a inside cat from the tainted food, and Walmart still has not bought the rest of the food i had got that night, that night I had spent a little over 32.00 SORRY I hope you find a cure for your cat and she gets better and know has caused it for sure ; GOOD LUCK & GOD BLESS :::F.B.E.

Im sorry about your loss. I don't want to go through that. That's why i have taken him so many times and thought maybe i could seek help out here. I am a animal lover to and i like to grip people out who mistreat also... lol so i totally understand thanks.

[topladyj]

Thank You All I Have Tried At Least Three Different Natural Foods Eukanuba, California Naturals. And His Problem Did Not Go Away So He Is On Some Cheap Food Once Again But They Love It. So I Am Probalby Going to Try The Z/d Which The Vet Perscribed In The First Place Just To See. If That Doesn't Work I Am Going Back To The Cheap Food. At This Point I Am Going to Try Frontline Too Cause I Never Have Although I Have Never Seen Fleas On Him Not Even With A Flea Comb... but Its Worth A Try. At Last If Neither Of These Work I Am Going to Do The Allergy Test But I Am Debating Might Just Want to Do That First. With Three Cats I Really Can Go Through A Lot Of Food. So I Am Leaning Toward The Test... I Just Hate To Give Up 200 When He Is Doing Just Fine On The Atopica Its Just His Chin And Lip Are Still Puffy.

[Flying Blue Eagle]

Topladyj - This time I think you are out of line . I DID NOTY DESERVE the reddie you gave me ,Mostly because I gave you a apolagy. You need about 6 reddies for not posting the whole questio right . Good DAy ::: F.B.E.

[topladyj]

Yes I sent you a note okay because I thought you were out of line for telling me I am cruel I am none the least I take care of my animals and I was just replying. Didn't see your second comment till later on sooo sorry really! And I don't know anything about the six reddies! I appologize and will make sure I don't give you anymore! Please except my effort of saying sorry FBE. Is there anyway I can go back and delete it?

[Flying Blue Eagle]

Topladyj - Appolagy accepted all is fopr given, WE are getyting off on the wrong foot , so lets try to get off on the other foot , I did not mean to upset you like I did ,I'M Sorry that I did . AS I said I thought that you were only talking about it ,instead of going on and takeing the cat to a vet. HOPE you accept this and we start all over again .::
Good day & GOD BLESS::: F.B.E.

[topladyj]

Thanks FBE we do have a lot in common for I love animals and used to work at a vet also. I hate them being mistreated cause they don't have a voice to tell an owner no, so I see what you mean. I'm sorry I disagreed the second post wasn't till later on and I hadn't made it there yet. I accept yours as well. Bless you also and hope you have a great day!

[morgaine300]

Thank You All I Have Tried At Least Three Different Natural Foods Eukanuba, California Naturals. And His Problem Did Not Go Away

I hope you'll still see this. (Been kind of busy and haven't been here for like a week or so.) Don't let the word "natural" fool you. That doesn't mean it's a good food, and it doesn't mean it's a good food to use for an allergy test. It doesn't say anything about what the ingredients are. If you want to check for food allergies, you have to look at the ingredients on the label. There is no other way to know if it's an appropriate thing to try for an allergy test.

If you want to do a serious test you need to find a food that is an unusual protein source, such as rabbit, lamb, venison, duck, etc. Cut out beef and seafood, and it's not a bad idea to cut out poultry as well, since common foods can be the allergens. You cannot just go by what the name of the food is. A LOT of food sneaks seafood in there somewhere. You have to read the label. And NO grains. Cats commonly have allergies to grains. In fact, I'd say the no grain is the number one rule.

California Natural has rice in it. (Rice is natural. Doesn't mean a cat isn't allergic to it or should be eating it.) California Natural isn't a bad food, but if you want to do a proper allergy test, no grains! It has rice. It also has seafood. Yes, even the venison one. (That's why I said you have to read the label.) All of the Eukanuba has either corn or rice. Not sure which one you tried, but Eukanuba isn't necessarily a good food.

I hope this also helps make a point how much marketing hype there is out there. The really good foods are ones no one has ever heard of. Try something like byNature Organics or Nature's Variety Instincts. Nature's Variety also has frozen and freeze-dried raw diets, if you can afford that sort of thing. It can be difficult to find this sort of thing, but the Petsmart around here carries byNature Organics, so if you have a Petsmart near by, check for it cause it would be a good choice for this. If you can't find them, and you want to get something at the vet's, I would suggest you at least go for IVD limited ingredient foods... assuming they haven't changed them, they're a heck of a lot better than Hills, especially if it's something you have to do on a permanent basis.

Trust me, I know what a pain this is. My one cat was scratching all over a while back, getting scabs all over him and pulling hair out. I hadn't changed anything around the house. My vet did suggest food allergies, but unfortunately he won't eat any foods I've found thus far that fit the bill to do a proper allergy test. As in, it would probably be impossible for me to do that. He didn't have a flea issue. I thought it might be dry skin so I was also going to try salmon or cod liver oil. I had been using Vitamin E on the scabs, not only to help heal them but also to soften them and hopefully make them not itch. Fortunately, the whole thing cleared up on its own recently, leading me even further to believe it was just dry skin during the winter. Which is good, cause I actually can't even do what I'm suggesting to you to do. :eek:

[pompano]

Have you ever tried a dexamethasone injection?It is a steroid,but you give it on a monthly basis. You start with a large dose and gradually reduce the dose,which may solve your problem.It has done miracles for many of my pets and their weird ailments.

[topladyj]

No we haven't tried the shots We gave him tons of steroids and poor thing even got the surgery for erodent olsers(he had olsers inside his mouth) done and still having problems. I still just have him on the atopika but I am willing to give the nature organics a try we have a petsmart and petco in town so I will see. The vet told me to just stay away from corn, and beef/chicken. So I figured rice and lamb.
But I will check this food out. Give it to him for a while and back off the atopika and see if the sratching bleeding starts again if so I will put him back on the pills. I will keep everyone posted and I greatly appriciate everyone's help.

[Flying Blue Eagle]

Toplady - I just thought of something today, Once I had a young kitten and it kept scratching his neck in one place ,and after this going on for about 3 days I got the kitten and looked at the neck area he kept scratching and looked ,there was a small hole in his neck and I could feel something under the skin ,I started pushing it towards the open hole and got it to where I could get ahold of it with twerzers and finnly got it out and it was a weavel , ( LIKE YOU FIND ON SQUARRELS IN LATE SUMMER$) . I got it cleaned out and sterilized and medicine on it and banadged, changed it every day for 2 weeks and it got all right, Catch your cat and look real close because the hole will be real small and feel all around the area he is scratching real bad , it will feel like a wood pencil in side , if its one , it will be about 3/4 " to 1" long by now. This may be what is making the cat sick also:!! If you have to you may have to take him back to the vet, it took me quite awhile to get this one backed out. I hope this helps and it gets the cat well again, Let us all know how it turns out! :: Good Luck & GOD BLESS ; F.B.E.

[topladyj]

Thanks fbe I will try and check him tonight and feel the whole area I'll let you know if I can find anything.

[morgaine300]

Toplady, I just found another one that Petsmart carries. Avoderm Select Cuts Chicken. The other Avoderms have grains or are seafood, but this particular one would fit the bill. I just discovered it the other day cause I just got a new cat and she likes stuff with pieces. So I was searching for everything with pieces in it. I was pleasantly surprised over the ingredients and the low carb level... and she loves it! (Happy, happy!)

And FlyingBlue Eagle, that's one of the more unusual cat stories I've ever heard. :-)

[Flying Blue Eagle]

Morgaine500 - There is no story to it because it DID HAPPEN < AND I KNOW A VET THAT WILL TELL YOU THE SAME THING HAVE A GOOD DAY ::: F.B.E.

[morgaine300]

Morgaine500 - There is no story to it because it DID HAPPEN < AND I KNOW A VET THAT WILL TELL YOU THE SAME THING HAVE A GOOD DAY ::: F.B.E.

Stories that are told can be true stories. I wasn't implying it was made up. I meant that I found it amusing. You have an interesting way of misinterpreting everything.

[topladyj]

Thanks for that food update. FBE I have searched and feel nothing hard in his neck. I worked at a vet. And this poor cat came in with some puffy cheek. A fly had laid a piece of larva and that thing was like two inches long and hairy. I was thinking the weevels may have been it. Cause last summer we got weevels that was the first time I had ever heard of them. Those were nasty I would have brand knew packages still closed up but I would look inside to see weevels dead and alive. I wish it were this easy of a fix. I am going to scheduale an appt. My cat is about down to one pill of atopica a week now and doing good. So then maybe we can try the diet thing again. And I don't think its fleas I have not seen them on him. And wouldn't this problem go away during the winter if it were. Not only that I don't use frontline but I use a flea protection drops on his shoulder blades. Thanks to all I will keep you informed.

[topladyj]

Well the Atopica dog medicine was the only thing that worked for my cat, kept his lip down and no bloody holes in his so that's a blessing, we tried some natural foods never could find anything that triggered it, he was like two and a half and I loved this cat dearly. I put a lot of time effort energy and money. And he ended up getting hit by a car I feel so bad, he got out one day and I had this feeling I set all my stuff down to get him and he took off I had to go to work or I was going to be late. When I got home he wasn't there which if he snuck out he'd be back by then, finally a week later I found out my cat was picked up right outside my house and cremated at a local shelter, I went and walked around just to make sure he wasn't there bless my baby as I will always love Dr. Skyler Lee Allen Morris Bradley Junior of Plump Stud... (thats his full name)

[Flying Blue Eagle]

TOPLADYj- Im sorry to hear about your pet ,I know what its like to loose a pet more so when you've had it a long time, me IM a animal lover from square 1, and I've been told several times that I should have been a VET the way I get along with them , and I hate to see any animal mistreated in any way , I see People not even try to miss a cat, dog, with a car or truck :: Any I hope that you find a replacement cat that will be as loveing as DR Skyler was :: GOD BLESS : F.B.E.