[cal823]

I'm doing some stuff on gender issues in music at school, and thought it would be interesting to discuss gender issues and sexism in music.
I have noticed that rap/hip hop nowadays seems to be comprised almost completely of sexism and shallow lack of good values.
I have also noticed that there is a great divide between "girl music" and "male music"
e.g guys wouldn't listen to the veronicas etc.
your opinions? Comments? Arguments?

[hollylovesbrandon]

I think one of the main problems with music nowadays is not the music really, but the listeners. There are a lot of people that hear a beat and think oh wow, I like this song, it's awesome. They really don't even know what the song is trying to say. Parents let their children listen to some music with slang words for masturbation and and things because they don't know what these words mean. Seriously, I can't blame the artists for making the music that sells and puts money in their pocket. I think people should really take the time out to listen to a lot of the music and they would probably realize what it is really saying.

[Rockabilly1955mama]

I think one of the main problems with music nowadays is not the music really, but the listeners. There are a lot of people that hear a beat and think oh wow, i like this song, it's awesome. They really don't even know what the song is trying to say. Parents let their children listen to some music with slang words for masturbation and and things because they don't know what these words mean. Seriously, i can't blame the artists for making the music that sells and puts money in their pocket. I think people should really take the time out to listen to a lot of the music and they would probably realize what it is really saying.

I completely agree with this statement. When you first hear a song, almost 100% of the time you're listening to the beat before you're listening to the lyrics. Some lyrics make since, others are just completely bogus! But they are just doing what they're good at. (Well, some anyway! :p \)

[hollylovesbrandon]

I also think that music nowadays doesn't contain as much meaning as back in the day. I mean like, people are thinking so much about putting that $$ in their pocket that somewhere along the line, they lose their passion and drive they once had to make beautiful music. If artists nowadays put the same soul and drive into making "good, powerful, meaningful" music as say back in the 30's and 40's, I think America's youth would be in a lot better shape. Not saying that all of today's music is bad, it just lacks the passion.

[cal823]

Hmmm
I reckon there still is passion and creativity and meaning, its just lacking from most pop/hip hop/ mainstream stuff.
Depends on the artist, some are genuine artists, some are just musicians.

[templelane]

Holly I think you must be listening to the wrong music! "Good, powerful, meaningful" music is alive and well. In fact I feel a lot of the 30's and 40's music is too simplistic lyrically. It's all about dating and explaining the new dance (at least what I've heard). It wasn't until 70's punk that things started to get political and sing about stuff that mattered. And I suppose late 60's psycadelic music flung lyrics into a more abstract realm although I'm not convinced they actually meant anything 'I am the wulrus'?? ;) Then the indie/goth of the 80's like the cure and the smiths made singing about actual complex feelings acceptable.

I'm not pretending for a moment the above is a definitive analysis just a discussion point!

Right to the original question gender issues. I'm going to stick to the type of music I know, as hiphop R'n'B is a sitting duck for this kind of discussion and I'm sure it'll get its fair share of analysis by people who know it better.

Rock/alternative/punk lyrics don't tend to be very sexist if you exclude 80's c*ck rock style. A lot tend to be very deferential to women, almost idolising them- which in it's own way isn't very healthy.

I think the real gender issue in this genre is the lack of female artists. There just aren't that many compared to men. Is it because women don't want to play that music? Are they not taken seriously? Do they not tend to feature high enough on the autism spectrum to practise thrash metal in their bedrooms for hours until they can play ever Slayer song known to man? Are their voices not properly suited? Or is rock a fraternity, a big boys club no girls allowed?

Personally I think all the above hold some truth. I have often wondered about this side of rock being a female guitarist heavy metal/punk/industrial/goth/indie fan.

Right got to get back to work will drop back latter as this is a very interesting discussion and I have much more to say! I could talk about music all day.

[cal823]

Hmmm I reckon one of the major issues, is that a lot of girls like "girl pop"
e.g veronicas, pink, girls just want to have fun style stuff.
This stuff I reckon actually is holding back females in music just as much as rap/hip hop and the aformentioned c*ck rock, as it tends to be just as childish/giggly as gossip magazines and barbie dolls, if more chicks would listen to rock and punk and alt and soul and real music, it would balance out, and a lot more guys would take girl singers a lot more seriously, because, frankly, could you take someone seriously who sings about umberella aye aye ayes and how "i don't like your girlfriend I should be your girlfriend id be a much better girlfriend'?

[templelane]

Most of the girls I know like punk/rock and alternative music. I have been to a lot of rock gigs and on the most part females make up at least a third of the audience, not quiet representative of the population but not a complete testosterone-fest either. Except the Smashing Pumpkins- that gig as disturbingly male...

If you go to an indie gig like that of We Are Scientist or the Killers females make up the majority. Same for some more romatic goth bands like HIM. I'll have to admit the lead singers of these bands don't look like Lemmy from Motorhead (centre) but it's still guitar driven music.

So I think there is an equivlent femal rock/alternative audience to males, based on my experiences anyway. Although as soon as you move onto the band scene females are a rarity.

[hollylovesbrandon]

I am not singling out one specific decade in my music. I agree with you completely. The 60's 70's and 80's all had their fair share of passionate music. Any music that speaks about political upheavle and domestic struggle and the struggle to fit in and fighting unnecessary wars speaks to me. I just think that music has become much more "cut and dry" nowadays.

[augustburnsred]

I also think that music nowadays doesn't contain as much meaning as back in the day. I mean like, people are thinking so much about putting that $$ in their pocket that somewhere along the line, they lose their passion and drive they once had to make beautiful music. If artists nowadays put the same soul and drive into making "good, powerful, meaningful" music as say back in the 30's and 40's, i think America's youth would be in a lot better shape. Not saying that all of today's music is bad, it just lacks the passion.

I disagree completely. I think the issue is that an adult will listen to one bad song by an artist and decide their music is meaningless. A good example of this could be "Smack That" by Eminem, but there are songs by him that have meaning and have inspired people, example? "Cleaning Out My Closet."
Its not passion its lacking, a lot of it has hidden meanings that a lot of youth tend to be able to relate to. Music is something that helps a lot of troubled people get by. How ever, the artist is lacking insight or morals, thus resulting in songs like Sensual Seduction (snoop dogg), I want to F*** you, later renamed, "I wanna Love You." (akon) etc etc.