[cozyk]

[F] "There but for the grace of God go I " is something people say when someone else is experiencing bad fortune. Does that mean that God did not have grace for the person having the bad fortune? I don't get it. And if God has blessed us with good eye sight for an example, does that mean that He did not bless the blind person?

[Wondergirl]

Or at a child's funeral, telling the parents "it was God's will"?

[cal823]

Makes you think doesn't it?
Im going to have to ponder this for a while.

[Allheart]

There but for the grace of God go I -

To me always meant, if someone fell on a difficult time, it's never good to be glad for their misforturen, because... There but for the grace of God go I ( It could very easily happen to me)

No, I would not tell a child's parents, who just lost their child " It was God's will", but I do know what you mean.

Do I believe the passing of a child early is God's will. I believe that our day is on the calendar, and when God call us home, yes, it is His will.

[Fr_Chuck]

Just a way for people saying they were lucky, has little to actually do anything about God or grace. But with that said, it would be better perhas to say, but for the will of God, I go. Since God can allow many things in our life.

The pure fact is that if we follow all of the early followers of Christ, they did not have an easy life, none of the 12 retired to a large house on the sea shore, those that were not tortured to death, were in prison.
The early Christians were chased down and killed, they were outlaws for years and years So the bible does not promise a easy life, in fact it tells us that often we will be hated for our faith, and we may be prosecuted for our faith. Often one of the worst things to happen to christianity for Christians has been its extreme freedom not onl for, but their freedom from religoin and to adapt religion to the socity of the time.

How many churches would be open today, if they knew the secret police may come in and arrest or just kill anyone there. I doubt many churches would be open.

[cal823]

The way I see it, god does not give an easy life, he gifts us with the ability to take the flak and the abuse and the rough weather with grace, and to pick ourselves up again after we fall down.
If life was easy, we would all be pretty much the same.

[cozyk]

There but for the grace of God go I -



Do I believe the passing of a child early is God's will. I beleive that our day is on the calendar, and when God call us home, yes, it is His will.

Are you saying that the date of our death is predetermined? What about people that kill themselves? I would think that would fall under the category of "free will." What would be the point of free will if it wasn't based on action/result?

Example, you use your free will and make a choice to jump out of a 20th floor window.

The choice - to jump or not
The action - jumping
The result - death

Is it God's will that we die or was it our use of our free will that resulted in our death?

[Fr_Chuck]

I believe there may be both, most having free will but some perhaps determined, I look at things such as Judas, He had to betray Christ, had he had free will and did not betray christ, the old testment would not have been fulfilled. Or the blind man who Jesus said was born that way so the power of God would be shown at his healing.

So I can see where there are some things at least at the time of christ determined.
And God did not really give Jonah much of a choice, storm, large fish. I guess it was a choice but death or doing it, is not much of one.

[Wondergirl]

Rabbi Kusher said in When bad things happen to good people that God wanted us to have free will and not simply be puppets, so He took a step back with His own will. When mankind decided to take matters into their own hands and be like God, the natural world also "fell" (weeds grow and mosquitos bite). God doesn't will anyone to die, but allows human choice and the natural order of things to prevail.

[Allheart]

Are you saying that the date of our death is predetermined? What about people that kill themselves? I would think that would fall under the category of "free will." What would be the point of free will if it wasn't based on action/result?

Example, you use your free will and make a choice to jump out of a 20th floor window.

The choice - to jump or not
The action - jumping
The result - death

Is it God's will that we die or was it our use of our free will that resulted in our death?

No, suicide is not God's will. And please don't get angry with me, I am only sharing my belielfs and in no way saying my beliefs are the right ones. When asked, I do love to share them. It helps me to sort things out, listen to someone else's and even learn further about God's love, as I am so far from knowing everything and even further from being "right" about everything. I love to learn about other's beliefs, regardless of their faith. I keep my heart open and mind open at all times, unless I feel that someone just wants to be unkind and issue hurt, then I will admit, I close off, just not to hurt or feel sadness.

Any way, I found an answer provided by Billy Graham on the question you asked me. Not that I follow Billy Graham, I don't but he answered and reflected how I feel about it, better than I ever could. ( All Blue below is Billy Grahams response)

Q: Does God know when every person is going to die, or is it all left up to chance? If He does know, does that mean it can't be changed, even with the best medical help? I've always been curious about this. — Mrs. W.M.


A: Dear Mrs. W.M.,
When we will die is not a matter of accident or chance; the Bible makes it clear that our lives are in God's hands. He knows the time of our death, and He has even appointed it. The Bible says, "Man's days are determined; you (God) have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed" (Job 14:5).

Does this mean we shouldn't seek medical care when we are sick, or that it doesn't matter if we do dangerous things because God will deliver us anyway? No, not at all; not one verse of Scripture would support such a view. Satan urged Jesus to cast Himself down from the top of the Temple and trust God to deliver Him—but Jesus refused to do such a foolhardy thing. He told Satan, "Do not put the Lord your God to the test" (Matthew 4:7).

Your question is actually a complex one; there is much about death we do not know, for God hasn't chosen to answer all our questions about it. But we do know this: Someday we will all die—and the real question is, are we prepared for that day? We can be, by giving our lives to Christ and trusting Him to forgive and save us. Have you made your personal commitment to Him?

When we know Christ, then we can say with the psalmist, "My times are in your hands" (Psalm 31:15). Jesus came to give us life—life right now, and life in the world to come. Make sure of your commitment to Christ today.