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Curlyben · Jan 20, 2006, 12:54 PM

Please note this is a long rant, but I'm in that kind of mood.

I have been active on this type of forum for many years.
I started on the excellent WHQuestion, now dead, and have been active on a lot of other sites.
Overall I have had a lot of fun and games and met some very fine people and had to put up with many idiots, flamewars and general stupidity.

What really gets me is the apparent inability of some users to follow even the most basic rules of etiquette when interacting with other people.
Small things like common courtesy, manners and respect are some of the things that come to mind. After all we all give our time and effort freely, but to be derided by, mostly forum newbies, is just plain bad manners.
While I'm on the subject of rules, simple ones like correct places to post. How hard is it to find the board you want and post a question? After all, the main index page has a whole list of available subjects.

Back to forum newbies, why is it that they feel that the use of English and punctuation are an optional extras.
This isn't a chatroom, speed isn't an issue, so why use chatspeek. Are they really so thick that a basic grasp of English is beyond them?
OK you can forgive grammar and spelling, we are all guilty of that one at some time, but the out and out laziness of chatspeek is beyond me.
It really doesn't help their cause or get their question resolved any more quick, as we have to spend time in translating their drivel into useable English. Some of our foreign users have a better grasp and it's a second, or even third, language to them.

Last couple of things I promise.
The ability to read what has gone before your post, both previous responses and mainly the posted dates. The most annoying thing is when an ancient thread is reopened by someone posting a response. How difficult is it to check the original date and whether the user has been online since? OK some feel they are helping, but please how does posting a response to two year old question really help.
While on posting, do they really believe that repeating the same question on ten different boards will get their question answered any more quick!

Bugger lost my train of thought now. Amuse yourselves for a moment while I try and regain it. Normal ranting will be resumed shortly.

I remember now, hackers, spammers and scammers. Come on are we really going to buy the next wonder penis enhancement pill just because you post it twenty times in two minutes. Are we going to send you our bank account number because you can give us an unlimited overdraft. Are we going to help you retrieve your webmail password just because you say it's your account.
Come on idiots what planet do you think we are from??

Rant over you may now return to real life.

A final thing to think on:
Why is Common Sense so uncommon?

So what really bugs you abot these kind of forums ?

Nez · Jan 20, 2006, 01:59 PM

Interesting Ben.When I joined,last January,I took time out to read the log-in details,had a look at what was available,and tried to post in the correct place.A question on nuclear physics,doesn't go under cooking :D
The regulars,we all know who we are,have a lot of banter,and sometimes this accidently cascades into the Klingon civil war.But on the whole,we are a friendly bunch.I hate it when you reply to a newbie (we all were once),and they reply,as Ben said,in txt speak,or use words we have difficulty following.I've English (GCSE O Level) just,and sometimes English speaking newbies write as though texting a friend.Even my niece,and nephew do it,and I end up using the telephone (land-line).Can admin please say,no txt spelling please?
For those of International countries,I can understand perfectly well there apprehension of including a few oddily written words,but for everyone else,surelly there is no excuse.
I have also noted answers to questions years old.I know that old admin (no pun intended),of twenty so-so replies,then two years later,an answer comes along that hits the bullseye.But surelly,six months is long enough for a question which may have been answered a billion times,is good enough?
Again,people coming on,and saying "I know a link to the combination of Fort Knox.Click here for details.Okey,that was fantasy,but you get the idea.
Oh yes,when someone answers a question,I dont know,"should you switch your cooker off,after you've finished cooking"?,then you get that stupid reply,"yes,I do",not once,but maybe,three,or four times.The comment section is for that.Not obvious replies for nothing.
That's it.Oh yes,today,some newbie posted a political rant,of how US soldiers should continue to get blown up in Iraq,and down with the US,etc.I think it was under Bin Laden is alive,or something.I reported this to admin,as political views,in my opinion,of a derogitary nature should be banned forever.Rant over.

labman · Jan 20, 2006, 02:38 PM

I am spelling and typing impaired. I take time to try to cover it up with spell check. I also proof read after spell check, a great new source of humor, Saddam comes out Sadism. The poorly written posts do grate on me too.

I also don't like questions without even half the information you need for a good answer.

Of course, my big gripe are people insisting on posting poor answers in areas where they know a lot less than others here. Once Tom showed up, I cut way back on plumbing answers, with tkrussel less in electrical, and now applguy may cause me to drop out of appliance repair. I am not here to kill time. I hate having my time killed correcting answers that should not have been posted.

Curlyben · Jan 20, 2006, 03:16 PM

Got another one for you as well.
What is it with all these newbies recently that are expecting us to do their hoemwork for them.
I'm all for guiding people in the right direction, but giving them the answer straight off the bat is just wrong.
How on earth will they learn anything if someone else does all the real work for them.

labman · Jan 20, 2006, 03:26 PM

I have a degree in chemistry and have done a lot of general reading since I have been out of school. I am sure I could be giving good answers in the science and math forums. I used to enjoy answering questions in the science for children section in the original AskMe along with Loci. Since so many of them are ''Do my homework'', I don't even take the time to try to sort out the ones that deserve to be answered. Another place where the idiots hurt the good people. At least, they are easier to ignore here than all the ones sent to me at All Experts.

Chery · Jan 20, 2006, 03:30 PM

Curlyben, you pretty much said it all. One thing you forgot, is when people (mostly newbies) post the same suggestion, just in different words right after you did. And yes those 'chatese' posts do drive one crazy! But, I'm sure that when newbies post their thanks, instead of rating, they'll get the hang of it sooner or later - so we just have to be a little patient. And on those double-posters - I refer them to one or the other with the link and explain. Live and learn.
P.S. without those 'dummies' we'd have nothing to laugh or gripe about (lol). Can I help you pick out your next name Ook!?

labman · Jan 20, 2006, 04:49 PM

You would have loved the one troll on the old AskMe. I would post an answer to a dog question. Later when I came back, she had rewritten my answer trashing the spelling and grammar and posted it as her own. Then she came back under a different name and anonymously gave my answer a low 1 star rating and hers the top 5 starts. There was a bug on the site at one time and I was able to expose her posting an anonymous question and then giving 5 similar answers each of the 5 possible ratings. The net is a much poorer place for all the good people that couldn't take such abuse and left.

On the other hand if I post a question on plumbing, I don't care if there already are 15 answers saying the same thing, I still want to know what Tom has to say. In the same way, I feel I need to post my answer in dogs even if there are other answers.

Chery · Jan 20, 2006, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by labman

You would have loved the one troll on the old AskMe. I would post an answer to a dog question. Later when I came back, she had rewritten my answer trashing the spelling and grammar and posted it as her own. Then she came back under a different name and anonymously gave my answer a low 1 star rating and hers the top 5 starts. There was a bug on the site at one time and I was able to expose her posting an anonymous question and then giving 5 similar answers each of the 5 possible ratings. The net is a much poorer place for all the good people that couldn't take such abuse and left.

On the other hand if I post a question on plumbing, I don't care if there already are 15 answers saying the same thing, I still want to know what Tom has to say. In the same way, I feel I need to post my answer in dogs even if there are other answers.

You've got a point there Labman, but if I have something to add to a previous post, I at least state that I agree with so and so, and also add, etc...

On another forum, there was a person that actually copied published articles from other sites and used them as her own without utilizing the quotes, and doing it the legal way. Too bad she picked articles from doctors that I personally knew, so I proved several times that she did this and she finally got tossed, but it took admin to stop her, even though she was openly told that it was not right and that she could be sued. Some people just don't have any morals at all. This was a forum where you would get a 'prize' if you got a certain amount of fast answers posted and positive ratings each month.

Curlyben · Jan 21, 2006, 02:52 AM

Good call there Labman, I'd forgotten about multiple ID trolls.
Luckly this forum seems quite immune, OK there are one or two but they get jumped on soon enough.
The worest place for this seems to be Pointask.
While I'm on trolls, some forums have the ability to post anonymous questions.
While I can fully understand the reasoning behind this idea, for posting sensitive questions, more often than not the ability is heavily abused by trolls.

I while back I found an excellent site that goes into get detail on the subject of Trolls. LINK
It also covers flaming, stalking and netiquette. A very valuable resource indeed, well worth a read.

Have a great weekend guys
Thanks for letting me rant ;)

lilfyre · Jan 21, 2006, 06:58 AM

Good link

labman · Jan 21, 2006, 08:07 AM

According to your link, I have been misusing the term troll. So what is the proper term for the pathetic people that abuse rating systems to have a high rating despite a lack of knowledge? The worst form is giving the better people bad ratings.

I think such people are far more harmful than those just stirring things up.

Curlyben · Jan 21, 2006, 08:12 AM

I think what you are referring to is a specialised kind of Troll as it produces the same effect.
After all the linked sites desn't cover all areas it's just some general reading.

Curlyben · Jan 21, 2006, 11:54 AM

Got something else to add to this rant.
When Newbies post a question and demand and instant response by either demanding in the title (ASAP, NOW, etc) or adding a time limit to it (respond by X time/date)
Don't they realise that we have our own lives too and that we do this for fun!
I must admit that whenever I see a demanding question I avoid it. I may read it and come back later, but I will never answer immediately.

psi42 · Jan 21, 2006, 06:56 PM

This problem has been around for a long time, and was what prompted this document. Unfortunately, no one reads that either.

labman · Jan 21, 2006, 08:35 PM

I deliberately let a chemistry question go a day on all experts due to a ''Please reply promptly.'' Great link. I usually try to answer that way. Those that don't likely will not check the link.

I doubt this thread will change how anybody does anything, but I am enjoying it.

When are you going to lose your green boxes? Who are you kidding?

Chery · Jan 21, 2006, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by psi42

This problem has been around for a long time, and was what prompted this document. Unfortunately, no one reads that either.

Just read the document, saved it for further reminders, thanks, great find!

Chery · Jan 21, 2006, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Curlyben

Got something else to add to this rant.
When Newbies post a question and demand and instant response by either demanding in the title (ASAP, NOW, etc) or adding a time limit to it (respond by X time/date)
Don't they realise that we have our own lives too and that we do this for fun !!
I must admit that whenever I see a demanding question I avoid it. I may read it and come back later, but I wil never answer immediately.

Curlyben, you're such a bad boy, you're Cute!
I never help anyone with homework, I tell them they are lucky to have internet - all I had was a library...

CaptainForest · Jan 21, 2006, 11:09 PM

I agree. The newbies "demading" immediate responses is fustrating.

CaptainForest · Jan 21, 2006, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Curlyben

Got something else to add to this rant.
When Newbies post a question and demand and instant response by either demanding in the title (ASAP, NOW, etc) or adding a time limit to it (respond by X time/date)
Don't they realise that we have our own lives too and that we do this for fun !!
I must admit that whenever I see a demanding question I avoid it. I may read it and come back later, but I wil never answer immediately.

I agree.

The Newbies that demand an immediate response is fustrating.

And quite frankly, a bit rude.

CaptainForest · Jan 21, 2006, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Chery

Curlyben, you're such a bad boy, you're Cute!
I never help anyone with homework, I tell them they are lucky to have internet - all I had was a library...

Chery, I don't know how I would have survived in your time. When I say your time, I mean the time when you grew up.

I don't know what I would do without the internet.

Libraries... to be honest, I have barely ever used them. Before I went to university, I had only been to the library twice in 4 years.