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kasper37 · Feb 2, 2008, 04:21 PM

Ok, I purchased a property a few months ago I had an inspector go over it to see if I needed any repairs, there were a few things that were pointed out and they were repaired.

A month after closing I noticed that I had a problem with my electrical system when the furnace kicked in, all of my lights will dimm, I called an electrician and he checked all of the breakers I currently have a new panel with 10 breakers meaning I have 10 circuits, well the electrician informed me that I would need to upgrade one of the breakers from 15 amps to 20 so he did and he also called the electric company and had them checked the service drop conductors which they turned out to be fine. Well until now I still have the same problem I do not want to call the same guy back because I am afraid he may just take more money from me. What I really think is wrong is the following correct me if I am wrong. I believe that when the old home owner replace the electrical panel from fuses to breakers I really think that he did not replace the service entrance cables I think that he just remove the fuse panel and replaced it with the 100amp panel when if fact he probably had a 60amp panel with a service entrance cable with the 60amp that was required at the time. However I feel that when the upgrade was made the 60amp cable was not changed to hold the 100amp service. Could I be correct?

hvac1000 · Feb 2, 2008, 04:42 PM

In our area you cannot do that without a permit. Now he could have changed the panel with out a permit because he could just pull the meter and install the new panel.

If he did that he probably could not get a release from the AHJ since he had no permit. So now you could be stuck with a smaller service entrance wire.

Call a electrician and have the tell you the size of the service conductors and type of metal. Copper or aluminum. The you can look up the size and see how much current it will handle.

kasper37 · Feb 6, 2008, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by kasper37

Ok, I purchased a property a few months ago I had an inspector go over it to see if I needed any repairs, there were a few things that were pointed out and they were repaired.

a month after closing I noticed that I had a problem with my electrical system when the furnace kicked in, all of my lights will dimm, I called an electrician and he checked all of the breakers I currently have a new panel with 10 breakers meaning I have 10 circuits, well the electrician informed me that I would need to upgrade one of the breakers from 15 amps to 20 so he did and he also called the electric company and had them checked the service drop conductors which they turned out to be fine. well until now I still have the same problem I do not want to call the same guy back because I am afraid he may just take more money from me. What I really think is wrong is the following correct me if I am wrong. I believe that when the old home owner replace the electrical panel from fuses to breakers I really think that he did not replace the service entrance cables I think that he just remove the fuse panel and replaced it with the 100amp panel when if fact he probably had a 60amp panel with a service entrance cable with the 60amp that was required at the time. however I feel that when the upgrade was made the 60amp cable was not changed to hold the 100amp service. could I be correct?

Well thank you for your resposnse, I really appreciate your input I actually had two electricians stopped by so far but the issue that I am facing is that no one has opened up the cover and checked the size of the wire, both of them tell me that they would change the panel and add two new lines and changed the service entrance cables and that should eliminate my problem. So as of now I am still in the hunt for another estimate. And as far a permit here in this large city in the midwest is common for people to do work without permits, it is a lot harder in the outline cities but here is common.

hkstroud · Feb 6, 2008, 10:48 AM

What kind of furnace do you have. You said furnace, do you really mean a heat pump? I think you should look at the electrical requirements of the "furnace". If you have a gas or oil fired furnace the electrical requirements are minimal, you only have a small fan motor to power. Dimming lights would indicate serious problems in that circuit. If you have a heat pump the electrical requirements will be considerably more. A heat pump on a 60 amp service, combined with other requirements might cause light dimming. Under size wiring to a heat pump or a particularly long run might be creating a high amperage draw.

I think you should call the power company and ask them to tell you what size service you have. Then you will know if the service entrance cable is correct. You can then compute your total electrical need and decide whether to upgrade.
If you determine that the heat pump wiring is correct and that the service is adequate but pushing its limit you may try to eliminate the dimming lights by rearranging you circuits within the service panel. Perhaps all of you heavy use circuits are all on one leg along with the lights.

Foot note. Changing a breaker may have been adviseable but would not have had any effect on the problem.

Stratmando · Feb 6, 2008, 11:36 AM

#4 wire or larger is good for 100 Amps. Electric company could/should have removed meter, look at lugs behind meter, And you should be able to see size of wires there or at your inside panel. A weak breaker(weak internal connections), the panel buss, or the breaker(s) may be burned or corroded.
Next electrician? Should be able to answer these questions.
If meter is not pulled, You will not be able to eleminate as a cause. Good Luck

kasper37 · Feb 7, 2008, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

What kind of furnace do you have. You said furnace, do you really mean a heat pump? I think you should look at the electrical requirements of the "furnace". If you have a gas or oil fired furnace the electrical requirements are minimal, you only have a small fan motor to power. Dimming lights would indicate serious problems in that circuit. If you have a heat pump the electrical requirements will be considerably more. A heat pump on a 60 amp service, combined with other requirements might cause light dimming. Under size wiring to a heat pump or a particularly long run might be creating a high amperage draw.

I think you should call the power company and ask them to tell you what size service you have. Then you will know if the service entrance cable is correct. You can then compute your total electrical need and decide whether or not to upgrade.
If you determine that the heat pump wiring is correct and that the service is adequate but pushing its limit you may try to eliminate the dimming lights by rearranging you circuits within the service panel. Perhaps all of you heavy use circuits are all on one leg along with the lights.

Foot note. Changing a breaker may have been adviseable but would not have had any effect on the problem.

OK, the type of furnce that I am operating is a gas furnace and you are correct it is a small motor that is running so the voltage drop is not due to the furnace the voltage drop also happens around the whole house when the compressor from the refrigerator kick in and when the microwave is turned on, what is funny about it is that the refrigerator has its own circuit by it self and the microwave is in a circuit with two more loads, I had two more electricians come by and one told me that I needed to change the panel and he will add two more circuits and that will eliminate my problem, another one told me to call the light company and have them check once again the service drop conductors it may be that I am not getting enough voltage from the transformers. What do you think?

hkstroud · Feb 8, 2008, 09:17 AM

I think it's time to call the power company back and insist that the meter be pulled and the voltage and amphereage form the pole be checked. Changing th panel will not correct the problem unless the problem is one of a poor connection in the existing panel. Something you cannot check without pulling the meter. A larger panel will only give the ability to add more circuits. It won't give you more power.
If the power company doesn't want do the checking insist on an explanation of why you lights are dimming when fan or microwave or fridge are used. The fan motor, fridge, microwave all pull about 12 amphs each and lights pull from 1/2 to 1 amph each. You shouldn't have dimming lights if everything came one at one time. It could be faulty transformer, faulty breakers at transformer or faulty connections of service drop at meter base. I don't know but I suppose that it could even be a faulty meter, maybe you should insist on a new meter also.

kasper37 · Feb 13, 2008, 09:31 PM

[QUOTE=hkstroud]I think it's time to call the power company back and insist that the meter be pulled and the voltage and amphereage form the pole be checked. Changing th panel will not correct the problem unless the problem is one of a poor connection in the existing panel. Something you cannot check without pulling the meter. A larger panel will only give the ability to add more circuits. It won't give you more power.
If the power company doesn't want do the checking insist on an explanation of why you lights are dimming when fan or microwave or fridge are used. The fan motor, fridge, microwave all pull about 12 amphs each and lights pull from 1/2 to 1 amph each. You shouldn't have dimming lights if everything came one at one time. It could be faulty transformer, faulty breakers at transformer or faulty connections of service drop at meter base. I don't know but I suppose that it could even be a faulty meter, maybe you should insist on a new meter also.[/QUOT

Harold thank you for the resposnse you are sort of correct, the problem was in the meter box the whole meter box had to be changed, actually the ground in the meter box was defective so the meter box was changed. I will consider your input in any futer questions I may have in regards with electrical.

mr500 · Feb 13, 2008, 10:05 PM

Interesting. I have the same problem. When my heat kicks on, my lights dim, the fans that are running all kick down a notch etc.. It's a Coleman split unit, and it has done this since I bought the house. It's a modular home we bought brand new (triple wide) but being a mobile home should not have anything to do with this problem should it?

Maybe it's a call out to the power Company. Are they not required to come out and check that kind of stuff out if I have a problem? Hopefully I am at home and can watch the guy do it.

Mike

kasper37 · Feb 14, 2008, 09:23 PM

Mike, I think that your problem is not similar to mine, yours seems to be that you have an over load on your circuit I believe that you having a mobile home do not have a as many branch circuits as a normal residential home would have, my guess is that you currently have perhaps 3 circuits in your panel, if I am correct then you should have the circuits split so you won't have that problem any longer.

mr500 · Feb 14, 2008, 10:20 PM

I don't know how many circuits I have. Never really have looked. It's a brand new house, I do know that. I never have had this problem looked at before so I really don't know what it is.

How do I know how many circuits I have? The 200amp box is not full, that I'm sure, but I have never dove into to look at anything

Mike

kasper37 · Feb 22, 2008, 09:08 AM

Mike, I suggest that you should contact a qualify person that works with electricity that would be your best way to go.

Stratmando · Feb 22, 2008, 12:02 PM

kasper37, When electrician upgraded 15 to 20 Amp Breaker. We hope he understood wire Has to be #12 or larger, #14 needs to stay on 15 Amp.

mr500. The number of circuits is the number of Breakers in Panel.
If you had a 200 Amp Service, Your breakers may Total over 300 Amps, and is OK.
The Square Footage and Equipment will determine Service size.
Did everything work OK, then problem? Or was it always a problem?

mr500 · Feb 22, 2008, 03:33 PM

I have no idea. How do I go about finding this information out? Is there an easy way to do this?

Stratmando · Feb 23, 2008, 06:30 AM

You should have Main Breaker at Meter or in House, It should say 150, 200 or something else.

donf · Feb 23, 2008, 08:43 AM

Just to introduce a thought here. Mr 500, when the electricians checked your house, did any one test your grounding connections?

Do you own a multimeter? If you do, the next few times you see the dimming of the lights, take a meter reading off the closest outlet. What is the normal reading at the outlet and when the lights dim, what is the voltage you get the dim lights?

mr500 · Feb 28, 2008, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Stratmando

kasper37, When electrician upgraded 15 to 20 Amp Breaker. We hope he understood wire Has to be #12 or larger, #14 needs to stay on 15 Amp.

mr500. The number of circuits is the number of Breakers in Panel.
If you had a 200 Amp Service, Your breakers may Total over 300 Amps, and is OK.
The Square Footage and Equipment will determine Service size.
Did everything work OK, then problem? Or was it always a problem?

If I think back is done it since we moved into the place actually. I have not had any problems, but I think I might in the future. I do have a 200amp svc that I do know.

Don.. Have not done a voltage test. Maybe I should just to see how much it is drawing. I don't know if my grounds have been checked. If I really get into Im going to call someone out, I just didn't want them taking me for a spin and me buying stuff that I don't need etc.. We all know how some people can be.

Mike