[s_wo2000]

I have a two story rental unit. The bathroom with double sinks and a shower is directly over the living room. There is a leak in the ceiling. It has leaked in the same spot before and then stopped. Now, the leak has come back. I have called several plumbers and there solution is to cut a hole is the ceiling to see where the leak is coming from. Is there anything else I can try before cutting a hole in the ceiling? How difficult is it to replace the ceiling if I do it myself? Please help?

[Questionshelp]

Are there any sines of water damage up stairs? And to really find out the problem you could repair the ceiling if need be. But it all depends on your ceiling if it has stucco on it with designs. If so it would be better off to pay a company to do it. If not then it does make the job essayer but it's all up to you if you are any good at drywall. Have you done drywall work before? If not then this site can give you a better under standing. It's not for ceilings but still the same.
Drywall How To Manual

I hope I was a help

[speedball1]

Before you start tearing into the ceiling a few questions. Does the leak get worse when you use the shower? Does the shower floor give a bit when you step into it? Custom tile or manufactured shower enclosure and base?
Ant moisture around the base of the toilet? Back to you, Tom

[s_wo2000]

Hi Tom,
Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure if it gets worst when the tenants showers. I caulked the shower and tightened the toilet seats. The shower is a one unit fiberglass shower. The tenant stated when they turned off the cold water to the sink it seems that the leak stopped. I turned the cold water back on the looked for a leak under sink(angle stop) and there was NOT a leak. Where could the leak be coming from?

Shelly

[massplumber2008]

Hi there... just to add my two cents... I hate to see someone rip out an area of ceiling only to find out that the problem was in fact in the upstairs bathroom itself after all... SO LET's see... First place I start ALWAYS is the toilet. Put your hands on the toilet and see if it actually moves... see if it twists... moves... rocks, etc... You must put your hands on toilet yourself... what appears to be... well isn't always... huh.. If it moves... bet you this is it... would explain the periodic episodes. Next I check the shower as mentioned by speedball1... but I take one step further in my explanation in that I would also suggest looking at your tenants shower curtain... are they pulling it over far enough..? You would not believe how many tenants simply did not pull the curtain over far enough at times and caused periodic leaks... Hmmm... so many thing to look at. My point is that I think you should go over and really observe the bathroom, the edges of the floor... especially where shower meets floor, and the toilet as mentioned above. Obviously, you have checked the obvious as you said about checking the sink... but also check these details again.
After that, I agree that you will probably need to open the ceiling and check the plumbing... patching of the ceiling is messy... not difficult... messy. If tenants are in place my guess is that this is not a time for you to mess around with/explore how to remove, cleanup, sheetrock, patch, sand, prime, paint, dedust, etc... I recommend that you find a good plumber that will open the ceiling using dropcloths and dust control and see what he finds... after that I recommend that you get a good plasterer to patch the ceiling (ask the plumber... he should have a few good names... OR call your local building/plumbing inspector... he should know some good people that can help)... best wishes.

IF my answer was helpful please comment or rate my answer! Thank you

[EIFS EXPERT]

Two words.

Thermal Imaging.

[doug238]

Before I cut a ceiling a measure downstairs to find the location of the leak upstairs then do the appropriate test on that fixture.

[EIFS EXPERT]

With thermal imaging you don't have to measure, cut or do anything other than press a button. Any more info and I'll have to charge you. :eek:

[doug238]

I wonder if a do it yourselfer has that thermal imaging machine. I also wonder which would be least expensive, your machine or a tape measure.

[EIFS EXPERT]

The device is a piece of equipment I use almost everyday to detect moisture behind walls. It cost about $1,200 but it works for me because I save time and energy and ultimately money.
To run a test on the ceiling will cost about $150. Not too much to pay for pin pointing moisture leaks.

Besides, the leak is coming from the plumbing and not the ceiling. Nine times out of ten the source is at the fixtures and not the pipes.

The opening up of the wall to find a little leak is like amputating a foot for a stubbed toe.

[iamgrowler]

The opening up of the wall to find a little leak is like amputating a foot for a stubbed toe.

Actually, if the leak is significant enough to penetrate the front back and gypsum core of the drywall, then the affected portion of drywall and any insulation in the wall or ceiling cavity should be replaced -- Particularly if the leak has been intermittent over a long period.

Stachybotrys, aspergillus and penicillium chrysogenum (just to name a few) are molds that should never be taken lightly.

[iamgrowler]

Yes I'm aware mold is bad. What I'm saying is that opening up a wall to find a leak is not necesarry with the technology we have available. Thermal imaging may not picks up the camera is a great tool for detecting moisture intrusion and or leaks. The thermal imaging allows identification of problem areas faster and in most cases avoids using invasive and destructive measures like making unnecesaary holes in walls to find leaks. If the leak is bad enough where the integrity of the wall board has been compromised then the damaged wall board should be repaired but since sheetrock is gypsum it dries up beautifully once the leak is repaired and you turn the heat up in the house to aid the drying process.

Exactly how does turning up the heat kill the mold in wall and ceiling cavities?

I'm not trying to bust your chops here, but I think your reliance on technology shortchanges good old common sense.

[iamgrowler]

It is not good practice to jump to the worse case scenario.

And yet you chose to do so anyway.

Perhaps you deserved that 'reddie' after all.

[speedball1]

Yeah, whatever. Are you schizo? Who's suggesting to tear the GoD damn house apart to find a freakin leak? I couldn't care less about reddies whatever they are. I'm the pro you obviously are not.

FIRST EIFS, lose the attitude,( do not use curse words in your posts) and second lose the advertisement that you're using as a signature. It's not permitted. And third, you don't trash out another expert, not on the plumbing page. To suggest Growler isn't a "pro" tells me you have never went back and read his answers. Growler's among the best that we have and to suggest that he's not is simply not correct.
You owe him a apology for your remarks. Both Doug and growler are valued experts on the Plumbing Page and if you want to keep posting on this page I suggest you pull in your fangs. This is your first warning from the page mod,( that's me) the second will come from the site mods. Oh! By the way, welcome to the Plumbing Page! Tom

[EIFS EXPERT]

Fine, I won't give my opinion because you obviously have enough experts on board. Good riddance.

[iamgrowler]

Fine, I won't give my opinion because you obviously have enough experts on board. Good riddance.

Y'know, the problem here is you got off on the wrong foot, which is actually pretty common.

Both Doug and myself viewed your first post to this thread as being rather flippant. Had you expanded on your initial offering by explaining what "Thermal Imaging" is and how it could be useful in this particular situation, you likely wouldn't have received your first 'reddie'.

That isn't to say there wouldn't have been those, including myself, who would have disagreed with you about the usefulness of thermal imaging for this particular scenario, but we likely would have been more civil about it.

As for why I don't believe thermal imaging would be helpful in this situation: I've used TI Contractors in the past with mixed results, they can generally isolate the largest wet spot within just a few minutes, what they can't always do, though, is trace the migratory path of the water.

A small bead or rivulet of water isn't going to show up on your monitor -- And if you know anything about water, you'll know it seeks the path of least resistance, which means it can travel the full length of the house before finding it's way to the living space below.

We brought in a TI Contractor a few years ago to trace a leak that had shown up in the ceiling space below a full bath -- According to his scan, both the toilet and the waste and overflow of the bath tub were the sources of the leak -- The toilet was reset and the waste and overflow replaced, but the leak persisted.

This being a house we had plumbed only a few years earlier, I had ample photo's of the rough-in, so I sat up late one night poring over the photo's and noticed something very odd; There were sections of the 1-1/4 air conditioning return lines that hadn't been insulated.

Anyway, long story short, condensation from the return line was dripping onto a metal heating duct and traveling about ten feet along the top of the duct before dripping down onto the bottom cord of a TJI floor joist, where it traveled another 16 feet or so before dripping down onto the wallboard below, from there it traveled the length of a piece of Z-Channel for about five feet before exiting a can light in the ceiling below the upstairs bath.

[Questionshelp]

The device is a piece of equipment I use almost everyday to detect moisture behind walls. It cost about $1,200 but it works for me because I save time and energy and ultimately money.
To run a test on the ceiling will cost about $150. Not too much to pay for pin pointing moisture leaks.

Besides, the leak is coming from the plumbing and not the ceiling. Nine times out of ten the source is at the fixtures and not the pipes.

The opening up of the wall to find a little leak is like amputating a foot for a stubbed toe.

So true. But if you have water damage below an existing bath room you need to fix the problem. If you see water damage on your ceiling it needs to be taken out and replaced. If not it can case mold. No need to pay for some one to tell you that there is a problem just tear out the dry wall and us the money to replace the dry wall after the problem has been corrected. Best of luck