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lmland · Dec 27, 2007, 08:48 PM

The car itself is at over 200,000 but I had an R-R engine put in about 2 years ago. It was supposed to have 40-80,000 miles on it at most.

lmland · Dec 27, 2007, 08:49 PM

My coil looks fine from the outside that's why I asked about the heat marks.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 27, 2007, 08:53 PM

The ignitor, which failed the test, may also have looked just as good as the new one on the outside. That's the nature of electronics and why so many people hate dealing with electrical problems.

If you took your car to Honda, they would replace the ignitor and coil together. Customers would be upset if they had to bring the car shortly because they found out the other item shortly failed. Experience has taught them to replace these items together. Shade tree mechanics, however, are always looking to save the money.

lmland · Dec 27, 2007, 08:57 PM

Okay I just wanted to double check because the clerk helping me at auto zone just kept saying "The coil doesnt have any burn marks so its fine, it looks really good" I think that may be why he cut corners testing it and only used a multimeter... that or he just didn't know how I'm not sure.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 27, 2007, 09:03 PM

I've even seen new coils fail--however, it's not common. On these older Hondas it's important to maintain the integrity of the core electrical system; i.e. ignitor, coil, main relay, and ECM. If you do the work yourself, the first three items are not very expensive, especially if you shop around. Check prices on RockAuto.com--the TEC coil for Hondas is the OEM part that Honda sells for much more.

See if the $42.89 TEC coil is the correct one for your model Civic:

1992 HONDA CIVIC DX Ignition Coil[859],Ignition%2BCoil,partGroup,25

lmland · Dec 27, 2007, 09:06 PM

So if it is not the coil would you suggest the main relay? Because I did check to make sure it was clicking and I did get one click before the fuel pump and one click after.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 27, 2007, 09:15 PM

If the CEL comes on and goes off, like we originally discussed, the main relay, fuses, and ECM should be okay. If the CEL stays on, and you don't hear the fuel pump run, then that is another story. If you have a problem, here, then the ignition will not spark.

If you are introducing this possibility, then you need to go back and answer the 3 basic diagnostic questions:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post229012

lmland · Dec 27, 2007, 09:19 PM

Its looking more and more like the coil is bad isn't it... I guess tomorrow I will have to take it back in and get it retested. Thanks for all of your help. I will let you know tomorrow when I get the coil tested again.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 27, 2007, 09:20 PM

Okay.

lmland · Dec 27, 2007, 10:58 PM

I just remembered a question I had. I was wondering, my car was running pretty crappy right before it just shut off. If the coil and igniter were going bad right then would it cause the car to maybe misfire or sound abnormal?

lmland · Dec 28, 2007, 04:05 PM

Ive tried everywhere in town and the only test they perform is with the multimeter. Even Autozone only does that test.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 28, 2007, 06:28 PM

. What were the primary and secondary resistance measurements?

. Did the testers think the coil was good?

The AutoZone, near me, has a DuraTester, which is made for them by Wells Manufacturing Corp. It tests Ignition Control Modules and coils, among other things. Most AutoZone stores are supposed to have one. Inquire about it.

. Did you check for diagnostic trouble codes?

. Did you test all under-dash and under-hood fuses with a test light or multimeter? If you didn't, here's how to do it:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post252145

. Did you perform the Power to Distributor Test? Turn ignition OFF. Disconnect the 2-P connector from the distributor. Turn the ignition switch ON. Measure voltage between BLK/YEL (+) terminal and body ground. There should be 12+ volts read. If not, repair open in BLK/YEL wire between the 2-P connector and ignition switch.

lmland · Dec 28, 2007, 09:38 PM

Okay I've replaced the coil, I tested it myself with a multimeter and the numbers were way off... it was bad. Anyway the car started up, but it still just sounds horrible. One minute its running smooth, the next it sounds like its fighting to stay running. It's intermittent like that. I only had a quarter tank of gas when it broke down. It's been sitting in the cold (30 degree weather) for a few days. I thought maybe it just needed to come to operating temp, but I got it up there and it still ran horrible. Any suggestions on this new problem. Oh yeah and it shut off a couple times again, but this time it started back up. One of the times it had a bit of a hard time starting back up, but it did.

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 29, 2007, 09:14 AM

No surprise with having to replace the coil. What's amazing is it only takes 30 seconds to bench test a coil, with a multimeter, and why didn't the auto parts stores identify the coil as being bad? Coils that fail the standard bench test, when cold, are really bad. Others only fail under load (heat) and require a Wells machine (AutoZone's DuraTester) to test them.

. Replace the fuel filter, if it hasn't been replaced in the past 4 years or 60,000 miles.

. When you replaced the ignitor and coil, did you remove the distributor? If you did, the timing needs to be reset.

. Perform the K-Test on the ECM--it may be intermittently breaking down.

. Check the Idle Air Control Valve, Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) Sensor, and Oxygen Sensor. In conjunction with the ECM, these items control fuel richness, which directly affects how the engine performs.

. Check vacuum hose connections.

. If the problem persists, check each cylinder's compression--there may be a fundamental problem with the valves (or even a broken valve spring).

. If the compression numbers are okay, the Thermo Vacuum Control Valve may be bad. It's not serviceable and must be replaced.

lmland · Dec 29, 2007, 01:18 PM

Yeah the clerk at autozone must have read it wrong, because when I did it it was way off, no way to misread it. Anyway, I didn't remove the distributor so its not timing. Also with the fuel filter the banjo bolt and other fuel line are so tight I couldn't get them off, I even tried soaking them in wd-40 for like an hour. Could this just be bad gas?

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 29, 2007, 01:22 PM

Try PB Blaster, WD-40 is really not a penetrant. Use a 14 mm flare wrench on the line.

I'm leaning toward an old, clogged fuel filter. It's creating enough back pressure to affect performance. My father's Toyota pickup is very sensitive to fuel filters clogging. Several times his truck has died on the road, after which he was able to stumble home and fix it. He even changes the fuel filters regularly. Most Honda owners rarely, if ever, change the fuel filter. Here's how to do it:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post224689

lmland · Dec 29, 2007, 01:22 PM

Also when I changed the plugs last time they were all pitch black.

lmland · Dec 29, 2007, 01:28 PM

Do you have any instructions on here for inspecting/removing those things? I have a chilton and I tried to look up the oxygen sensor removal in it last night and it didn't say anything except it's location?

lmland · Dec 29, 2007, 01:30 PM

Oh and when the car is above idle it runs fine

TxGreaseMonkey · Dec 29, 2007, 01:34 PM

Here's how to replace the oxygen sensor:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post223376

Here's how to adjust the idle speed:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/cars-t...tml#post219948

Sounds like things are dramatically improving. I would change the fuel filter, clean the IACV, and adjust the idle speed. Also, pull the 7.5 amp Backup Fuse, in the under-hood fuse box, to reset the ECM.