[Maggie 3]

The bible teaches "Unless one is born again, he cannot see
Or enter the kingdom of God or Heaven. Being born again is opening your heart
To God and letting His spirit connect with yours.. You do this by the reading of the
Word of God the bible. This is the way God can write His laws on your heart. This is
The beginning of being born again. You Learn about His love for you, His Spirit will begin
To lead you into all truth and obedience to the rightousness of God. He will give you the Holy Spirit so you can live a righteous life and keep His law and be obedient. This is the process for being born agan. OLd things are past away all things become new. Your
Spirit and Gods spirit will be connected. This is the way to heaven.

Blessings Maggie 3

[magprob]

"Heaven," is right here right now. It is not so much a place as it is a vibration. Much in the same way there are different radio stations on your radio. You can only listen to one station or, turn the dial and listen to another.
X rays, gamma rays and many other different "stations" or vibrations exist. You just happen to be dialed into this one right now.

[Maggie 3]

There is a heaven on earth and also a hell and we choose the
The one we live in most of the time. Most people by accident have both because
It comes by choice. The most powerful thing we have is our mind and we still have not learned all there is to know on how to use it to the highest level. We bring in our life
What we believe in. God is spirit and I believe in Him and am growing in knowing Him
And being the person He would like me to be. The joy and the love I have in Him is
Heaven to me and doing the things He tells me to do, reading His word the bible. When
We live in the fleish we want to please it by what looks good, feels good, taste good,
Smells good and every thing that please the physical body. We feel the need
To want more and more and there is no end, but it can be the beginning of a hell.
Heaven and hell are spiritual places and we reach both right here on earth. We choose
To go on to a higher heaven or a lower hell. We choose the power money or power of God, I choose God.


Maggie 3

[jakester]

magprob - do you really believe that heaven is here right now? Look at the world and how messed up it is. Countries at war, people living in poverty, countless numbers of people (old and young) suffering from terminal illnesses and diseases (cancer, aids, etc.).

If this is heaven, then I am convinced that there is nothing to look forward to because this world is completely unfulfilling.

Of course I don't believe heaven is here now but I just wanted to challenge your assertion and see how you might defend your position, after considering what I just said.

Thanks.

[jakester]

Passionate for Truth -

Here's my take on your question: "How do you (think you) get to heaven?"

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the answer to this question. The apostles all understood that every human being is an enemy of God by nature. We simply do not care to follow God's ways because we are hostile towards him and do not want to submit. Because of our hostility, mankind stands to be condemned by a just and righteous God. Ultimately, if God were to exercise his justice, every one of us would be condemned and destroyed. Our biggest problem is that we do not see ourselves as we really are. We think we are basically good people but “we are naked before him to whom we must give an account.” We are morally unworthy of God and are incapable of solving our problem of sin.

But the story of Jesus Christ's coming into the world is a story of mercy. In sending Christ, God demonstrated his mercy to mankind by telling us that he is willing to forgive because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Christ came to offer his life for those whom the Father would give to him, people from amongst the Jews and from amongst the Gentiles. The coming of Jesus and the force of his message culminated in his death, burial, and resurrection. God's offer of mercy is on the table and stands for all who desire it.

So how does the offer work or how can I one receive mercy? Well, I must have this thing called faith (Greek - pistis). Faith is not merely an intellectual belief in the plausibility of the gospel but a radical commitment of my mind and heart (loyalty). Real faith is a commitment to becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ; to desiring to do good and understanding the will of God. Faith starts with my recognition of my need for God's mercy, my acceptance of his mercy as a gift from God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for my sins, and a radical, wholehearted commitment to following Jesus Christ and becoming his disciple.

If I have a heart that believes the gospel is true, that I am morally unworthy of God but I want to seize from my hostility and know him, God is willing to forgive me and grant me eternal life. Eternal life is a gift granted by a merciful and loving God to a once hostile and foolish creature who now knows his creator and seeks to love him and abide in his ways.

[cozyk]

Rather than trying to be good out of a selfish desire for heaven, or fear of hell, it is better to know you are loved unconditionally. Sooner or later that sinks in to the point that you cannot help but want to return that love, giving it freely to all around you. This doesn't come from wanting a reward, but purely from the heart.[/QUOTE]

Beautifully said. This is truly my philosophy. That is the only motive that is true, to do good because it is a return of the love given to you and you can't help but do it. Reward of heaven or fear of hell are shallow reasons to do right by God.

[cozyk]

Passionate for Truth -

Here's my take on your question: "How do you (think you) get to heaven?"

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the answer to this question. The apostles all understood that every human being is an enemy of God by nature. We simply do not care to follow God's ways because we are hostile towards him and do not want to submit.

I don't agree with that at all. You are attempting to speak for everyone and personally I never felt that way.

Because of our hostility, mankind stands to be condemned by a just and righteous God. Ultimately, if God were to exercise his justice, every one of us would be condemned and destroyed. Our biggest problem is that we do not see ourselves as we really are.

True, there is a place in us that is better than we realize. We operate on an egoic level that is selfish, power hungry, prideful, all originating from fear, BUT when we separate from those actions and motives, there is an awareness of what we are doing,
the observer in us is the christ-like side of us. To abandon ego and live in the present with this state of awareness should be our goal.


We think we are basically good people but “we are naked before him to whom we must give an account.” We are morally unworthy of God and are incapable of solving our problem of sin.

You can't pull anything over on God. He is living in you and knows your true essence.

But the story of Jesus Christ's coming into the world is a story of mercy. In sending Christ, God demonstrated his mercy to mankind by telling us that he is willing to forgive because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Christ came to offer his life for those whom the Father would give to him, people from amongst the Jews and from amongst the Gentiles. The coming of Jesus and the force of his message culminated in his death, burial, and resurrection. God's offer of mercy is on the table and stands for all who desire it.

Sorry, I'm not convinced this happened and I hope it did not. I'd hate to see a man suffer as Jesus is said to have done when it was not necessary to get my attention. I live with the same honor for God no matter what. No one had to die for me to get me to.


If I have a heart that believes the gospel is true, that I am morally unworthy of God but I want to seize from my hostility and know him, God is willing to forgive me and grant me eternal life. Eternal life is a gift granted by a merciful and loving God to a once hostile and foolish creature who now knows his creator and seeks to love him and abide in his ways.

Why do you continue to say we are hostile. I'm not hostile toward God at all. Are you?

[cozyk]

magprob - do you really believe that heaven is here right now? Look at the world and how messed up it is. Countries at war, people living in poverty, countless numbers of people (old and young) suffering from terminal illnesses and diseases (cancer, aids, etc.).

If this is heaven, then I am convinced that there is nothing to look forward to because this world is completely unfulfilling.

Of course I don't believe heaven is here now but I just wanted to challenge your assertion and see how you might defend your position, after considering what I just said.

Thanks.

I agree with magprob. Now, getting each soul to recognize that is the key. Imagine if everyone lived without the selfishness, greed, pride, envy and lived to their purest potential. Think of how many of the problems you mentioned would disappear.
Heaven is life without these negative traits. Or as I keep saying, your state of consciousness when you abandon ego.

[greatodie]

Well, being a "good person" isn't going to get anyone to Heaven considering none of us are "good." Jesus said, only God is good. Only by the grace of God can anyone enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If we were "good" then Jesus would not have had to die a despicable death. If you recognize that you are a sinner but that Jesus died to pay for your sins then you are well on your way to Heaven.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:13

Or you can take the atheist approach:
You are god.
There is no good or evil.
There is no meaning outside of what you make-up in your head.
You are of no more value than a toe nail.
You will die a toe nail's death.

Or the Hindu approach:
There is no heaven.

Buddhism:
No heaven

Let me clarify even hindus do believe in concept of heaven and hell (the Swarg and Narak concept)
Please read more rather than quoting these things

[tonyrey]

Heaven and hell are states of mind produced by our thoughts, values and decisions. The Greek concept of nemesis and the Indian belief in karma imply that there is cosmic justice. Our virtues bring their reward and our vices their punishment. In other words love leads to happiness and selfishness to misery.

Since there is horrific injustice in this life there must be an afterlife in which injustice is rectified. We ultimately receive exactly what we deserve:..

[NeedKarma]

Since there is horrific injustice in this life there must be an afterlife in which injustice is rectified.

I guess that's where we disagree. I don't see horrific injustice in this life.

[tonyrey]

I guess that's where we disagree. I don't see horrific injustice in this life.

How about the Holocaust - and all the people in the world who starve to death and die of malnutrition?