[De Maria]

Question for atheists but all are invited to join the discussion, especially Lobster mobster.

I don't want you to think I'm tricking you or anything. This is a serious question and one of the questions, the answer to which, helped me become Christian.

Now, Lob seems to like logic. And logically speaking, nothing from nothing is nothing. If there were no God where did everything come from? As I see it, nothing from nothing is nothing. If we had nothing before anything then we should have nothing now.

Sincerely,

[Skell]

Where did god come from? Nothing from nothing is nothing remember and as far as I'm concerned if god was to exist (which I am convinced he doesnt) then where did he come from. He had to come from something too as far as my logic works.

Your logic doesn't work as far as I'm concerned.

Im sure some other atheists who are better versed than me at arguing their point will come along and give you even better reasons. Nice try though!

[De Maria]

Where did god come from?

God was always here. And always will be. That is the point.

Nothing from nothing is nothing remember and as far as I'm concerned if god was to exist (which I am convinced he doesnt) then where did he come from. He had to come from something too as far as my logic works.

And there your logic fails. Because nothing can come from nothing. To put it differently, in order to have something today, you must have something then. And that something must be eternal, with no beginning because if nothing was first, there could be nothing after. That is an absolute.

So, something can come from something, but something can't come from nothing. It is impossible.

Your logic doesn't work as far as I'm concerned.

Im sure some other atheists who are better versed than me at arguing their point will come along and give you even better reasons. Nice try though!

Well, I hope they post. Lalala lala la la. Still waiting.

Sincerely,

[Clough]

Originally Posted by De Maria

Well, I hope they post. Lalala lala la la. Still waiting.

Sincerely,
De Maria

If you post it, they will come! :)

[magprob]

Because I wholeheartedly believe that anyone who seeks the truth deserves nothing, I have joined the Zeroastrianism religion, a religion that has nothing at its core. It involves the worship of the God Zeroaster, whom we believe never existed. Our motto, “Not seeing is believing.” It is our ultimate goal to achieve nothing. We make no effort to violate our one commandment, “Thou shall not.”

We do however believe that nothingness can be attained by:

Listening to bowling on the radio
Getting a government job
Picnicking on the lawn of the Embassy of Atlantis in Washington D.C.
Watching FOX News

Absolutely all Nothingness to you and yours and remember, there is no place like OM.

[oneguyinohio]

To assume that a state of nothingness ever existed is faulty. If it were so, how long was it that way? Could it be measured in time? Of course not. If there were no beginning of the nothingness, how then could it have been?

If God did create all matter, did God create an end to the nothingness that never had a beginning and therefore can not be? It would be impossible to end something that never was.

When then did God first get credit for this action? When was the first awareness of God? Only after the appearance of higher animals. In fact, man. What gives man the knowledge of this God? That which is in the mind of man. Why did this belief form of God? To explain the creation of all things or the beginning of matter for which there is no logical need for because there could never have been a state of nothingness which has no beginning.

What then accounts for matter that does exist? Consider E=MC(squared) for which Einstein's logic shows how energy and matter are different forms of the same thing. Energy could have therefore changed to matter. With this in mind, it is easier to view God as a "powerful" creator that is ever present within all people and places, as well as providing reasonable insights into positive and negative forms of energy equating to good and evil that compell one in different directions. Further examination of this pushes one toward an awareness of an afterlife such as when the soul of a person leaves the body upon death since we also know that energy is not destroyed. The energy or soul within only leaves the body to return to the whole of what some refer to as heaven or hell depending on positive or negative energies stored within the being.

[magprob]

In the religion of Zeroastrianism, we perfer to think of it as 0=00 (circled). That is purely Oinstein's logic. Since we have never seen Oinstein, we believe that he, like Zeroaster, never existed. Since 0 and 0 are nothing, we believe that they are the same form of nothing or, nothing nothing. Therefore, we have come to the conclusion that nothing squared is in fact not square at all but 0. Our Messiah, The Lord Billy Preston, said it best: "Nothin from nothin leaves nothin, ya gotta have nothin, if ya wanna be with me." Book of Zeroaster. Page 000000 Chapter 000 Verse 0000000000000000000

[NeedKarma]

God was always here. And always will be. That is the point.

Close but way off. :) Actually the singularity that started the big bang had always been there. Now we have this wonderful expanding universe.

Next question?

[Capuchin]

If God can be eternal, why can't anything else can be eternal? This is the flaw in your argument.

[Choux]

If there was a GodAlmighty, then there never was "nothing".

Why can't people accept the answer to the question on how the Universe originated and changed over time as being, "NO ONE KNOWS"? Which is the correct answer.

[Skell]

If God can be eternal, why can't anything else can be eternal? This is the flaw in your argument.

My point! Thanks Cap. I knew you'd be able to simplify. I bet its still hard for some to comprehend though! ;)

[tkrussell]

If there was a GodAlmighty, then there never was "nothing".

Why can't people accept the answer to the question on how the Universe originated and changed over time as being, "NO ONE KNOWS"? Which is the correct answer.

Exactly! A similar comment I was formulating as reading this post.

We will all each find out the real story once we pass on to wherever, and certainly all will when the Sun runs out of fuel.

Not sure where the nothingness concept came from. Scientists theorize there was a small, albeit, powerful, speck of matter, that expanded to what we see today.

Seems to them the universe is expanding still, what with the observations and measurements that confirm this fact. However, please note that scientists still call it the Big Bang "Theory", as the facts they seek for the beginning are still unreachable, and possibly unfathomable.

Perhaps there is some sort of natural cycle, expanding and contracting energy and matter. Who really knows?

One observation is that scientists offer only theories, as the facts or proof are so impossible to produce. Why are the religious so sure of their concept?

No one really knows for sure.

[ordinaryguy]

Why can't people accept the answer to the question on how the Universe originated and changed over time as being, "NO ONE KNOWS"? Which is the correct answer.

Well, another correct answer that is actually better because it's easier to support is "I don't know", but that's a minor point. It does seem like a perfectly good answer to me. Why do you think so many people are unsatisfied with it?

[oneguyinohio]

Man's quest for answers does not rest with I don't know. Trying to solve the questions and arrive at some conclusion, making sense of the universe, appears to give man purpose.

[Dark_crow]

Chasing after another paradox like, “which came first, the chicken or the egg” uh, DM. Of course one had to come first, but which one?:p

[oneguyinohio]

Egg first

The first chicken hatched from an egg as a mutation or diversification from some other species, otherwise it would not have been a chicken, but some other closely related animal.

Think about it... if a tiger and a lion mate, the offspring is not a lion and it is not a tiger.

[Fr_Chuck]

Everything is expanding, hummmm, so I can say I am not reallly getting fat, it is only the universe expanding.

[oneguyinohio]

everything is expanding, hummmm, so I can say I am not reallly getting fat, it is only the universe expanding.

How come clothes don't seem to expand at the same rate? Not enough elastic??

[magprob]

So, I see we all agree on nothing. I knew you would.

[De Maria]

Close but way off. :) Actually the singularity that started the big bang had always been there. Now we have this wonderful expanding universe.

You just proved my point. Something had to always be here.

Sincerely,
.