[lobrobster]

Suppose a Christian mother is very religious. She firmly believes in heaven and hell and the fate of the eternal soul. She has two children ages 7 and 5 who are very good Christian kids. She has every reason to think that if they were to die tomorrow, God would certainly accept them into heaven.

But as we know, kids grow up and become influenced by the world. If they both live to be 90, there is always the very real chance that one of them will commit a mortal sin at some point in their lives. So here's my question:

Can you provide a reason why this mother shouldn't kill her two kids now and lock in their eternal fate? I mean, the difference between spending eternity in heaven or hell is not a little thing. It's EVERYTHING! If she kills them now, their souls have a 100% chance of going to heaven. If she lets them live, there will always be some chance greater than zero they will go to hell. So why should she take ANY chance when she doesn't have to?

Now before you say it... I realize this mother would be committing a mortal sin herself by killing them. But suppose her love for her two kids is so great that she's willing to sacrifice her soul for theirs?

It seems to me that if you have any loved ones who are currently worthy of heaven, it would be an incredible act of heroic selflessness to kill them now and guarantee their eternal soul. So why don't more Christians do this? Is it because they place their own eternal fate above that of their loved ones?

Once again, I'm not trying to be cute. This is a serious question. If I truly believed that my kids were either going to heaven or hell when they die, I'm sure I love them enough to where I'd sacrifice my own soul and do whatever it takes to make sure they don't suffer for eternity. So I guess it's a real good thing people like me don't believe this stuff, huh?

[N0help4u]

Yes she would be committing her eternal fate to be in hell for murdering them.
AND she would be 'playing God' in a sense.
Where would we all be if we killed all babies so that they could go to heaven.
Their mothers and fathers could have been killed so they would have never even had a chance to be born.

[lobrobster]

Yes she would be committing her eternal fate to be in hell for murdering them.
AND she would be 'playing God' in a sense.
Where would we all be if we killed all babies so that they could go to heaven.
Their mothers and fathers could have been killed so they would have never even had a chance to be born.

Thanks for your response. But since you did nothing to refute the logic of my premise, can I take it you agree?

[N0help4u]

Refute the logic?
I don't see where I suggested it was a good idea??

[J_9]

Personally I don't see any logic to it at all.

A Christian woman who kills her children to preserve their souls. The better logic would be to have that woman's tubes tied so she doesn't have children in the first place.

I'm sorry, but this post has some seriously psychotic undertones.

[N0help4u]

I agree J_9 it reminds me of the woman that drowned her kids in the bayou in downtown Houston,Texas and some others where they said that "God told them" to kill their kids.
No logic! If Moses or Jesus told people to kill their kids then many of our ancestors would never have even been born to give birth to our grandparents and parents.

[ordinaryguy]

I'm not trying to be cute. This is a serious question.

For some reason, I doubt that this is true.

If Moses or Jesus told people to kill their kids then many of our ancestors would never have even been born to give birth to our grandparents and parents.

Well, there is that troublesome story about God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac. 'Course, in the end God said "Just kidding!", so maybe it's not the same.

[lobrobster]

refute the logic?
I don't see where I suggested it was a good idea?????

But you don't say why it's a bad idea (for the mother). I take it you agree her actions will achieve the results she's after?

For some reason, I doubt that this is true.


Well, there is that troublesome story about God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac. 'Course, in the end God said "Just kidding!", so maybe it's not the same.

But it is true and I see it as a serious and legitimate question. I want to know what Christian logic can stop the woman that Nohelp4u mentioned? I don't see any. I'm hoping to find it here.

[N0help4u]

I think it is stupid psychopath logic and what can stop it is some serious mental help as well as her kids taken off her!

[J_9]

lobrobster disagrees: Zero help to the question asked.

We can agree to disagree. However, this is not only a Christian problem, but a mental health problem as well. Many of these women suffer postpartum depression, or schizophrenia. Both of these disorders have a religious impact on the sufferer.

[N0help4u]

The Bible says the devil came to steal, kill and destroy. A good parent would trust their child's life to God and teach them the right way just as the Bible teaches Christian parents to do.
Everybody has a free will and to kill somebody so they don't have a chance to choose their free will is 0NLY playing God and not trusting God. Just like with abortion pro life people ask how do you know you didn't 'kill' the next Einstein.

[lobrobster]

The Bible says the devil came to steal, kill and destroy. A good parent would trust their child's life to God and teach them the right way just as the Bible teaches Christian parents to do.
Everybody has a free will and to kill somebody so they don't have a chance to choose their free will is 0NLY playing God and not trusting God. Just like with abortion pro life people ask how do you know you didn't 'kill' the next Einstein.

But your speaking nothing to the question I asked.

Does killing a child who is worthy of heaven guarantee his eternal soul, or not? If it does, then I don't see how you can blame a parent for doing it.

I think it is stupid psychopath logic and what can stop it is some serious mental help as well as her kids taken off of her!

I have nothing against you calling something stupid, if you show the hole in the logic. But so far, you haven't come close to doing that. You're simply stating your personal (unfounded) opinions that have nothing to do with the question I asked.

[J_9]

If it does, then I don't see how you can blame a parent for doing it.

The parent should not have had the child in the first place. The soul would have stayed pure and with God.

[lobrobster]

We can agree to disagree. However, this is not only a Christian problem, but a mental health problem as well. Many of these women suffer postpartum depression, or schizophrenia. Both of these disorders have a religious impact on the sufferer.

But you are not speaking to the question I asked.. Would such an action guarantee her kid's eternal fate, or not? If it does, why are you assuming it's a mental health issue?

I would jump in front of a bus right now to save my kid. If I'm also willing to risk my eternal soul for their's, what logic do you propose should stop me from doing so? You're providing no argument against it. You're just throwing other issues into the ring like mental health, without any real answer to my question.

[Wondergirl]

If she lets them live, there will always be some chance greater than zero they will go to hell. So why should she take ANY chance when she doesn't have to?

The Bible has been interpreted all sorts of ways. Some Christian churches say there are mortal sins. Others don't agree. Some Christians say there is a literal hell, others say it is spiritual, some say hell is on earth, and still others aren't sure there is one.

None of us knows the mind of God. The mother in your example is playing God and is like my bipolar neighbor (mother of four children) who wanted to do exactly what you described.

The Bible says God is love. We don't know what decisions He will make about where people "go" after death. We simply have to trust in His love and mercy. And I suspect we will be very surprised when our own turn comes up.

[lobrobster]

The parent should not have had the child in the first place. The soul would have stayed pure and with God.

When does the birth of a soul take place?

[N0help4u]

Most of the people that kill because "God told them to" are then evaluted by a shrink as having serious mental issues.
I don't see where you don't follow that if all Christian parents took that route they would be going against the free will God gave us as well as aborting the opportunity for the kids to possibly do something for God and mankind.
Your question is the same as why not abort them before birth so they are saved?
Or what if they kill themselves?
Or what happens if they die (instead of being killed by the mom) same thing happens to the kids the mother kills as happens to the ones in the other three instances other than it isn't their time if the mother kills them.
Bottom line it is NOT the answer and goes against the Bible teachings.

When does the birth of a soul take place?

God says he knew us before we were even conceived so I believe we had our soul at or before conception.

And wondergirl is saying exactly what I have been trying to get across to you.

[J_9]

Okay, look, I would definitely jump in front of a bus to save my child, but to purposely kill them is ridiculous. Does it save their soul, yeah, I'm sure it does if you slaughter them before they commit any act against the laws of God.

But these women who actually do commit murder of their children in the name of God usually have a psychotic illness that makes them commit this horrendous crime against nature. I have spoken in depth with men and women alike who have done this to their children while in my mental health rotation at the forensics unit at the local State mental health hospital.

Any person of sound mind would not commit murder their children, but rather raise them to live a life in Christ.

When does the birth of a soul take place?

I can't answer that because I am not God.

[Wondergirl]

When does the birth of a soul take place?

If someone can answer that, he/she will have solved the abortion/right-to-life question.

[J_9]

Look, Rob, why don't you tell us what you want us to say...

You want us to justify killing innocent children?