[NeedKarma]

You have a valid point. This sounds similar to the compromise reached when the MPAA sued the makers of VCRs.

However, I can't imagine that a few cents per CD truly compensates for the loss of income from not paying for tracks. And how many Canadiens buy disks in bulk from Internet sources, thereby bypassing this surcharge.

Frankly, it just sounds to me like Canada is legalizing piracy.

See my post above yours.

[Tj3]

Actually that`s incorrect. Canadians are still open to copyright infringement. The levy is very well explained here:
Private copying levy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The difference between the US and Canada is regards to the prosecution of such matters lies in our stronger personal information privacy laws. Currently if the RIAA or the CRIA asks an ISP for session information (who was using this IP at this specific time) based their gathering of IPs the ISP does not have to release that information. Recent laws in the US have made ISPs weary of fighting for the privacy of their users and so cave in at the slightest demand for information.

You should be careful about using wikipedia as a factual source. Here is a quote from a Canadian Government website on copyright law:

-------------
Not infringement:
Quoting a few lines of the article in a research paper (fair dealing);


Playing records at home;


Giving a public performance of a play by Shakespeare (no copyright exists/public domain);


Obtaining permission from the author and paying a fee to him or her (if requested) in order to use an article; and


borrowing a musical tape from a friend to copy onto a blank tape for private use (a royalty payment to the owner of the song rights has been paid when the blank tape was purchased).
-----------------
Source: CIPO - A Guide to Copyrights: Copyright Protection

You have a valid point. This sounds similar to the compromise reached when the MPAA sued the makers of VCRs.

However, I can't imagine that a few cents per CD truly compensates for the loss of income from not paying for tracks. And how many Canadiens buy disks in bulk from Internet sources, thereby bypassing this surcharge.

Checking out NK's link there is this passage:

In conjunction with the levy, the Copyright Act allows individuals to make copies of sound recordings for their own private, non-commercial use. They may not distribute the copy.

This would still make the downloading copies made by others illegal.

NK is wrong - see my quote from the Canadian Gov't website explaining the exemptions from copyright law below.

I live in Canada and have been following this fairly closely over the years. There have been discussions about making changes to this, but time will tell if that happens. Certainly there are those in the industry who are not happy with this provision is the law, but until chnages are in fact made and in force, copying remaining legal.

[NeedKarma]

My apologies, I totally added the wrong link:
Canadian copyright levy on blank audio recording media

[NeedKarma]

borrowing a musical tape from a friend to copy onto a blank tape for private use (a royalty payment to the owner of the song rights has been paid when the blank tape was purchased).

I'm not sure that covers the free-for-all filesharing world where the originator has not purchased the original material or media.

[ScottGem]

I agree with NK here. I agree the Canadian law is trying to decriminalize someone letting a friend make a copy of media they purchase. I think it's a different animal to making a copy and putting it on a site for dozens of strangers to copy. Or for stangers to just grab copies for free.

[ChihuahuaMomma]

All right, I get the point, I will not download Limewire... I have yet to get any advice with Trillian, I went to the link provided. And read there, nothing helped... Is my computer just retarded?

[Tj3]

I'm not sure that covers the free-for-all filesharing world where the originator has not purchased the original material or media.

There are two sides to the activity. The person sharing and the person copying. What we have been discussing, and what the topic was about, was downloading and copying for personal use.

[J_9]

Did you try here?

Cerulean Studios: Creators of Trillian and Trillian Pro Instant Messengers

This is the download site for Trillian

[Tj3]

My apologies, I totally added the wrong link:
Canadian copyright levy on blank audio recording media

Note this quote from that site:

-------------
... unless the legislation is changed or the courts interpret matters differently, it appears that making a private copy for your own use of a musical work downloaded in any manner from the internet is not an infringement of copyright. In their decision, the Copyright Board states:

The regime does not address the source of the material copied. There is no requirement in Part VIII that the source copy be a non-infringing copy. Hence, it is not relevant whether the source of the track is a pre-owned recording, a borrowed CD, or a track downloaded from the Internet.
-------------

To be fair, I should repeat - this applies only to Canada. Downloading in the US is still illegal. And this applies only when the copying is done to certain types of media in Canada where the copyright fee is applied.

[ChihuahuaMomma]

Thanks to everyone that turned this post into LIMEWIRE and PIRATING as well, I was asking for help on Trillian, and I have dropped the subject of Limewire.

[J_9]

I repeat...

Did you try here?

Cerulean Studios: Creators of Trillian and Trillian Pro Instant Messengers

This is the download site for Trillian

[NeedKarma]

Note this quote from that site:

-------------
.........unless the legislation is changed or the courts interpret matters differently, it appears that making a private copy for your own use of a musical work downloaded in any manner from the internet is not an infringement of copyright. In their decision, the Copyright Board states:

The regime does not address the source of the material copied. There is no requirement in Part VIII that the source copy be a non-infringing copy. Hence, it is not relevant whether the source of the track is a pre-owned recording, a borrowed CD, or a track downloaded from the Internet.
-------------

To be fair, I should repeat - this applies only to Canada. Downloading in the US is still illegal. And this applies only when the copying is done to certain types of media in Canada where the copyright fee is applied.

Hmmm... I wonder if the judge would allow that argument:
"Your honour, yes I have downloaded 10,000 songs form the internet but it's ok, I bought two blank DVDs for $1.29 so the levy I pay absolves me from any royalty payments." :D

[NeedKarma]

Thanks to everyone that turned this post into LIMEWIRE and PIRATING as well, I was asking for help on Trillian, and I have dropped the subject of Limewire.

Actually it's a good thread. I gave you the tech support site for Trillian. It would appear that it's not used a great deal by the members here so your best bet is contacting them for the problem you are having with their product (I assume you got it from their site).

Also you learned that downloading songs from P2P is indeed illegal and we have possibly saved you from being sued by the RIAA. It's all good. :)

[ScottGem]

Thanks to everyone that turned this post into LIMEWIRE and PIRATING as well, I was asking for help on Trillian, and I have dropped the subject of Limewire.

This is why I suggested starting a new thread. You need to attract people familiar with Trillian and you need to detail what you have tried and what happens when you try.

[ScottGem]

There are two sides to the activity. The person sharing and the person copying. What we have been discussing, and what the topic was about, was downloading and copying for personal use.

Ok, so your contention is that it is the person sharing who is breaking the law but the person taking advantage of that sharing is blameless (at least under Canadian law).

Whether that is true or not, there is a large issue here and that is one of ethics. Lets take a different scenario. A person robs a bank. In the course of trying to getaway, the robber empties a bag of money causing a mob scene that blocks the police from pursuing. The mob grabs up the money dumped out. Is it legal for the members of the mob to keep that money? After all they didn't steal it from the bank? I think the courts would rule that they have no right to keep that money.

A person downloading songs that were illegally distributed is, in my humble opinion as guilty of piracy as the person who made the song available. Even if the laws won't allow prosecution its still an unethical thing to do.

[Tj3]

Hmmm...I wonder if the judge would allow that argument:
"Your honour, yes I have downloaded 10,000 songs form the internet but it's ok, I bought two blank DVDs for $1.29 so the levy I pay absolves me from any royalty payments." :D

This is not a matter of whether you agree with the law, it is a matter that that is what the law says and how the courts have interpreted it.

[Tj3]

Ok, so your contention is that it is the person sharing who is breaking the law but the person taking advantage of that sharing is blameless (at least under Canadian law).

Whether that is true or not, there is a large issue here and that is one of ethics. Lets take a different scenario. A person robs a bank. In the course of trying to getaway, the robber empties a bag of money causing a mob scene that blocks the police from pursuing. The mob grabs up the money dumped out. Is it legal for the members of the mob to keep that money? After all they didn't steal it from the bank? I think the courts would rule that they have no right to keep that money.

A person downloading songs that were illegally distributed is, in my humble opinion as guilty of piracy as the person who made the song available. Even if the laws won't allow prosecution its still an unethical thing to do.

Scott,

This is not a matter of what my contention is, nor what you opinion is. I responded because there were comments about the legalities of downloading, and that refers to what the law states, not what personal opinions are. To validate this, I provide the legal opinion of the office of the government of Canada responsible for this area of law.

What I stated therefore is the law in Canada, and how it is both written and interpreted by the courts.

As for ethics, I have no doubt that a vigorous debate result, but the issue brought forward was not ethics, but rather it was stated that downloading was illegal. My response was specific to that point.

Tom

[NeedKarma]

This is not a matter of whether you agree with the law, it is a matter that that is what the law says and how the courts have interpreted it.

Dude, I married with a lawyer, I know it's all about interpretation... and precedents.

[Tj3]

Dude, I married with a lawyer, I know it's all about interpretation...and precedents.

Yes indeed. That was my point.

[ChihuahuaMomma]

I repeat....

Yes, I tried there... there was no help on why it wouldn't work...