[Dark_crow]

Clinton who had led against all prospective GOP opponents earlier this year, a Zogby Poll shows, would lose to every one of the top five Republican presidential contenders if the election was held now. On the other hand, Barack Obama of Illinois and John Edwards of North Carolina would defeat or tie every one of the Republicans, this latest survey shows.

What did I miss, or is the poll wrong?

Zogby International

[N0help4u]

Polls are stupid and most often biased. I can get on some polls on the internet and vote as many times as I want. I don't know about zogby but I am not signing up just to see if they do it that way.

[tomder55]

I am not surprised . The instinct of the party appears to be with the old Henry Wallace /George McGovern isolationist wing of the party .Hillary is more of a Johnson Democrat and for all her faults ;would be one of the few Democrats that could be counted on to continue with the basic premise of the Bush doctrine .She has said in the debates :
"There's absolutely a connection between a democratic regime and heightened security for the United States." She has all but admitted that she would not guarantee a withdrawal from Iraq during her term;even if it was a two term presidency. That has infuriated the base.

But I think the big reason for the slide is that for most of the campaign the other candidates were afraid to attack her for fear of what the Clinton machine could do to them . They all when it is said and done would like to have Bill Clinton in their camp if they are the nominee . So they played with kids gloves.

But now Obama (who was saying that he did not want to engage in "the politics of personal destruction ") has taken his gloves off thanks in part to the opening that Tim Russert gave them. Also it is true that when change vs. experience questions get debated ,often change wins.

I think the biggest question for both parties primaries will be the simple question of electability . Hillary is clearly the most organized of the Democrat candidates but she has always had a likeability deficit . Now combine that with her waffling and straddling the fences on some of the important issues of the day ;her electability for the first time is being questioned.

I still think she will be the nominee but her opponents will continue to expose her weaknesses.

[ETWolverine]

The answer is yes and no.

I am not surprised that Hillary's personality traits are starting to catch up with her. She does not have a reputation for being a very nice person, whereas Obama, for all that I disagree with his politics, is a likeable guy. There has been a point of view for a while now (that I personally do not subscribe to, but it probably has some validity) that Hillary would be an easier opponent for the Republicans than Obama because Hillary isn't likeable. So I'm not surprised that Hillary is starting to whither under close scrutiny and let her real personality show through.

On the other hand, I'm surprised at how quickly it has begun to take effect, and how drastic her slippage has been in such a short period. Going from beating all the possible Republican candidates by several percentage points in October to losing to all of them (even Huckabee, who isn't even on anyone's radar) by several percentage points in November is a huge slide in one month.

But there's still a lot of electioneering to do. This story ain't over yet. And I notice that you haven't used the word "fizzle" with regard to Hillary. She's still strong in the polls, so don't count her out.

By the way, I don't see Edwards as a serious candidate. I think that Edwards simply got a boost in this poll as an alternative to Hillary. Obama is really Hillary's only serious competition on the Dem side of things. Edwards has the same "likability" issue as Hillary does. He's just not that nice a guy, and it shows after a while. Obama, on the other hand, is a nice guy, and that might be the deciding factor between him and Hillary.

Elliot

[BABRAM]

The one thing that stands out to me is that Hillary seems to think this is about the appearance of popularity, or at least that's the way her camp has been gearing her campaign, thus far. Also she claims experience, but gives vague responses when asked important questions. I'm not surprised by the poll. She's not the meat and potatoes candidate that America needs, she's more like a salad topped with blue cheese dressing and croûtons, but the nutrient delicious greens at the bottom of the bowl are saturated in vinegar. If she wins the Democratic nomination her real challenge will come from the Republicans.



Bobby

[Choux]

Obama wasn't giving Hillary good opposition, in my opinion, plus, Hillary has proved to be a good campaigner, full of charm, knowledgeable as Kissinger, and tough as Gen Patten...

Money has it that Obama will win the Iowa caucus', and big. Time will tell.

[ETWolverine]

Obama wasn't giving Hillary good opposition, in my opinion,

That's debatable. He was giving her enough competition to have to fall back on the tired excuse of being picked on for being a woman. He was giving her enough competition for her to have to pull out the old southern Black accent. But I can acept that other people see it differently.

plus, Hillary has proved to be a good campaigner,

True.

full of charm,

What?! Are you joking? What's charming about her? The closest she comes to charm is not biting people's heads off if they ask easy (or planted) questions. She is not well liked in political circles, she treats 'the help" like crap, and her Secret Service bodyguard detail think she's a total beeyotch because she yells at them for doing their jobs.

knowledgeable as Kissinger,

True enough. But then again, Kissinger was a fool while in office. So I agree with you on this point.

and tough as Gen Patten...

You mean in how she supported the war in Iraq before she didn't? How she thinks the troops can't do the job, and she wants to pull them out of Iraq? You mean stuff like that?

Frankly the only thing she has in common with Patton is that they both cursed like soldiers when they get mad.

Money has it that Obama will win the Iowa caucus', and big. Time will tell.

Possibly. But don't count Hillary out yet.