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lobrobster · Nov 13, 2007, 03:51 AM

I'm an avid Blue Angel fan and was very distraught to hear about Kevin Davis' #6 plane crashing at an airshow back in March.

At first, they said the investigation would take a few weeks. Well, it's been almost 8 months now and I haven't heard any more about it. I'm very interested to find out exactly what happened. I feel like I knew the pilot, because I've watch so many videos of demonstration flights he few for reporters.

Does anyone know the results of this investigation? Or can someone point me to where I can find out? I can't see it taking this long. Those planes are the most meticulously maintained on the planet. I can't see it being mechanical failure. Maybe a bird strike though. But as much as I hate to admit it (because Davis was one of the best pilots in the Navy), I suspect it had to be pilot error. It makes sense if he blacked out or something.

Like I said, I watched him so much I felt like I knew him. I need some closure. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Rob

Flying Blue Eagle · Jan 2, 2008, 09:20 PM

Lobrobster- AS you , I hate to see any pilot go down . Navy, AIR FORCE , OR even civilian. I was AIR FORCE for 12 years. If you want to find out something,you can go to ,( N.T.S.B. ) dot com I believe. But it is the gov. agency that handles all types of transportation ,crashes, they will have all the answers. Look in phone book under us gov. good luck, let me know what you find out::::: F.B.E.

Stratmando · Jan 5, 2008, 05:27 PM

I believe the site is ntsb.gov. Good Luck

lobrobster · Jan 6, 2008, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Stratmando

I believe the site is ntsb.gov. Good Luck

Thanks guys. I have looked there and could not find a section for military incidents. But I'll look again in cased I missed it. My next step is contacting a newspaper for guidance on where to get some info (surely a reporter would know, right?). It's frustrating that there has been no further mention or update on this whatsoever anywhere. I guess newspapers and media only care about the sensationalism of the crash itself and to heck with any info afterwards.? Thanks again.

Flying Blue Eagle · Jan 9, 2008, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by lobrobster

Thanks guys. I have looked there and could not find a section for military incidents. But I'll look again in cased I missed it. My next step is contacting a newspaper for guidance on where to get some info (surely a reporter would know, right?). It's frustrating that there has been no further mention or update on this whatsoever anywhere. I guess newspapers and media only care about the sensationalism of the crash itself and to heck with any info afterwards. ?? Thanks again.

Lobrobster - As you probley know, when it comes to the military, they are not going to release the answers to the public a lot of the time. If you can get the WASHINGTON phone number ot the ( N.T.S.B.) { National transportion safety board} . I do believe you will find out something , IF you can get to talk to someone. Tomorrow I will try to find out some phone numbers and put it on here tomorrow night, I do still have some special Connections, Ok . ::: Good luck & have a good safe day, Same to you (S tratmando) F.B.E.

lobrobster · Jan 9, 2008, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Flying Blue Eagle

Lobrobster - As you probley know, when it comes to the military, they are not going to release the answers to the public a lot of the time. If you can get the WASHINGTON phone number ot the ( N.T.S.B.) { National transportion safty board} . I do belive you will find out something , IF you can get to talk to someone. Tomorrow I will try to find out some phone numbers and put it on here tomorrow night, I do still have some special Connections, Ok . ::: Good luck & have a good safe day, Same to you (S tratmando) F.B.E.

Wow, I'd really appreciate that! Thanks!

I suspect the reason it's taking so long means that pilot error is the most likely result. Like I said, those planes are among the most meticulously maintained on the planet. I've watched the video of the crash over and over and it sure looks like he made an unbelievably strong turn ala carrier brake style. The Blue Angels do not wear G-suits, and even though this pilot was a fit and competent flyer, I think he may have blacked or grayed out. This would also explain why he didn't eject. Anyway, I'd really appreciate that number if you can find it. Thanks again!

Flying Blue Eagle · Jan 11, 2008, 10:30 PM

Lobrobster - So far this is all I've gotten. The person I spoke to said he would not be able to talk to any one on the phone,and asked me not to give out his name or phone number, he is going to try and find something out and let me know, then I can pass it on to you. Mean while check these places.::: ( N.T.S.B. { National Transportion board},Field Offices, They are listed in phone books,Under { U.S. Government} in the following cities, :: ( Anchorage, Alaska , CHICAGO ILL>. DENVER< COLO>, FORT WORTH, TEXAS,:: KANSAS CITY <Mo. LOS ANGLES< CALIF. :,MIAMI, FLA> <:: NEW YORK <N.Y. :::OAKLAND < CALIF,::SEATTLE, WASH. :: WASHINGTON CALIF. ALSO OUT of phone book,TRY this. FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION> PHONE # is 1-731-422-3357> You may have a different listingin your phone book, look for what I wrote , above::;( FAA). I hope this helps and gives you a path to follow. I will keep on looking myself. GOOD LUCK< GOD BLESS, ::: F.B.E.

lobrobster · Jan 12, 2008, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by Flying Blue Eagle

Lobrobster - So far this is all I've gotten. The person I spoke to said he would not be able to talk to any one on the phone,and asked me not to give out his name or phone number, he is going to try and find some thing out and let me know, then I can pass it on to you. Mean while check these places.::: ( N.T.S.B., { National Transportion board},Field Offices, They are listed in phone books,Under { U.S. Government} in the following cities,.:: ( Anchorage, Alaska , CHICAGO ILL>. DENVER< COLO>, FORT WORTH, TEXAS,:: KANSAS CITY <Mo.,LOS ANGLES< CALIF. :,MIAMI, FLA> <:: NEW YORK <N.Y. :::OAKLAND < CALIF,::SEATTLE, WASH. , :: WASHINGTON CALIF. ALSO OUT of phone book,TRY this. FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION> PHONE # is 1-731-422-3357> You may have a different listingin your phone book, look for what I wrote , above::;( FAA). I hope this helps and gives you a path to follow. I will keep on looking myself. GOOD LUCK< GOD BLESS,.::: F.B.E.

Flying Blue Eagle,

You're awesome to be sticking with me on this. It so happens that I got a Google news alert this morning linking me to an article that said the results of the crash have been delayed several times. I guess they are expected to be released soon however. I'll try the sources you cited and keep on top of the Google alers. If anyone's interested I'll post the results here. Thanks again.

Flying Blue Eagle · Jan 14, 2008, 05:56 PM

Lobrobster- Thanks for the good words, I am pretty sure thsat there is quite a few on here that has been watching all this and will be glad to see the results,good or bad. Im helping all I can because I care and I know what it feels like to see a good friend go down, I was in S.A.C. on the b-47 jet bomberand the only one we lost in 12 years,was the one that crashed on takeoff, I knew the pilot very well and bombadear, I had flown with them a few times. He was also a very good pilot. He had a full rack of jato behind rear wheel well, He hit the toggle switch to fire the jato off a thousand feet to soon, IT WAS pilot error, And he had used jato 100s of times before. One thing about aircraft, cars, tractors, anything mech , stays in better running shape the more it is cont. used, but anything mech.can fail at any given moment. No matter how good it is taken care of;! Just remember that he was a good pilot and that when it comes your time ,NO matter where youer at it can happen,The LORD brings you home. I will say this ,I ALWAYS told my wife that IF I died flying ,I"D die happy::: Have a good day ,GOD BLESS KEEP US ALL INFORMED AND I WILL YOU :::::: F.B.E.

lobrobster · Jan 14, 2008, 10:10 PM

Thanks FBE,

Really sorry to hear about your friend. Yes unfortunately, human error does occur.

I received another Google alert that the Navy was supposed to release the investigation results today, but I have not been able to locate anything.

lobrobster · Jan 15, 2008, 10:09 AM

To anyone who cares, the Navy has finally released its report. Here is the link:

The Associated Press: Pilot Error Cited in Blue Angel Crash

I hope that works.

lobrobster · Jan 15, 2008, 09:14 PM

To excon:

Comments on this post
Excon agrees: They didn't "release" it. They were forced to release it. I don't know what they were hiding.

One reason could be that the Blue Angels have come close before to being required to wear G-suits, which they have always (so far), successfully fought off. With the results of this investigation in, you can be sure this debate will be re-opened.

I'm not sure why they resist it so. The ThunderBirds F-16s are equipped with side controls that don't interfere with the inflating G-suits. I'm sure the Blue Angels F-18s could be re-fitted the same. It might be a macho or bragging rights thing or just tradition that they don't want to be forced to wear these suits.

It really is pretty incredible how they train themselves to avoid G-lock. The article stated they will undergo even more rigorous training and physical conditioning. The thing that really touches me, is that I've watched countless videos and heard the audio where Davis piloting his jet through 6 and even 7.5 G's. He always seemed to have done it without breaking a sweat, while his passenger strains and eventually goes to sleep! -lol. So I'm really not sure what the heck happened here. Maybe he just took it for granted and was too lackidaisical? Or did he make too hard of a turn?

Either way, it really touches me to see such a competent and dedicated pilot go down like that. From everything I've seen and heard of him, he was also one heck of a guy. I'm sure he'll be missed by many. It's very sad.

oneguyinohio · Jan 15, 2008, 09:27 PM

It had allowed a waiver permitting its pilots to fly without G-suits to expire in 2005. Ball called the expiration "a lack of careful attention to operating requirements."

What does this imply about the liability here? Was the pilot in the wrong for not operating with the G-suit? Was it the higher ups? Is anyone going to be held accountable?

Flying Blue Eagle · Jan 15, 2008, 11:25 PM

I'm very sorry that it all turned out this way, I was hopeing that it would come out the other way and not pilot's error. But knowing the milatary,I smell a rat in a hole, Pass the buck , AS I stated before,(ALL machines , no matter how well they are taken care of ,will fail some way in time. I want to say GOOD luck AND GOD BLESS >IF I EVER hear anything at all I will post it to you or send a email I've got to talk to a certin person :::: F.B.E.

HomerDepot · Jan 20, 2008, 06:34 AM

I thought it was recently released that it was basically pilot error, he didn't perform the "hic" maneuver and grayed out, either that or CFIT.

Flying Blue Eagle · Jan 20, 2008, 10:21 PM

Lobrobster - Lets put it this way, there is that rat in the hole. Excon hit the nail on the head, with his quate. Just keep pestering the ( N.T.S.B.) ,your true answer will come.thhey do have to answer ,with true facts, the answers arec public records . Ive pulled a few g's myself,on what was called pop up missions,some called it ,toss bombing . I will let you go for now ,just remember what I said, I DO NOT believe that it was PILOT ERROR! Your friend , Good day & GOD BLESS :::: F.B.E.

lobrobster · Jan 21, 2008, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Flying Blue Eagle

Lobrobster - Lets put it this way, there is that rat in the hole. Excon hit the nail on the head, with his quate. Just keep pestering the ( N.T.S.B.) ,your true answer will come.thhey do have to answer ,with true facts, the answers arec public records . Ive pulled a few g's myself,on what was called pop up missions,some called it ,toss bombing . I will let you go for now ,just remember what I said, I DO NOT believe that it was PILOT ERROR!!!! . Your friend , Good day & GOD BLESS :::: F.B.E.

I'll keep on top of it and report back with any additional info I find. But unfortunately...

I believe the report to be accurate. I've watched the actual footage of the crash over and over and the report confirms what I see (and initially thought). Davis appears to be lagging in the routine and in an effort to catch up, he pulls his aircraft into an almost ridiculous high G turn (although the report didn't mention Gs higher than 7). It's likely that Davis was either caught off guard and didn't anticipate the number of Gs he would encounter as a result of his turn, or didn't initiate his anti-G restraining maneuver quickly enough.

G-lock would account for why there didn't appear to be any pilot attempt to recover the aircraft (until is was almost on the ground). It would also explain why there was no attempt to eject.

It's with regret that I've reached this conclusion. However, this does nothing to take aware from Davis' ability as an aviator. He was truly among the best of the best in a very elite group of ace fighter pilots. I've also watched videos which gave insight into his love of aviating and showed his character as a person. He was a great guy and it should make us all feel a little better than he died doing what he loved.

As to the Navy... I believe there is a very simple reason why they want to fly this under the media's radar, and it has nothing to do with conspiracy. Well, maybe a little... In short, the Blue Angels don't want to be made to wear G-suits, and the Navy certainly doesn't want their premier recruiting tool grounded. As it is, there has been pressure for them to don G-suits. They are very much against that. The death of a very competent pilot like Davis can only increase outside pressure for them to change their policy regarding flight suits. That's why they were very quick to announce policy changes in the workout regimen and annual mandatory testing in a centrifuge for Blue Angel pilots.

Anyway, this is why I think they've been so slow and reluctant to release information. Of course, as someone already pointed out, there's also the fact that they let their permit for flying without G-suits expire and the potential lawsuits from Davis' family and/or victims on the ground. It's a mess, but I'm relieved to finally know what happened. May Lt.Cmdr. Kevin Davis R.I.P.

Flying Blue Eagle · Feb 17, 2008, 10:17 PM

Lobrobster - & others concerened- Here is a cite to go to and check out a/c accidents for 20 years plus, the accident report , you will have to use the correct information as noted, ( aircraft type, date , location, here is how to get into it --- AOPA/NTSB ACCIDENT DATABASEGOOD DAY & GOOD FLYING GOD BLESS ::: F.B.E.

lobrobster · Feb 18, 2008, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Flying Blue Eagle

Lobrobster - & others concerened- Here is a cite to go to and check out a/c accidents for 20 years plus, the accident report , you will have to use the correct information as noted, ( aircraft type, date , location, here is how to get into it --- AOPA/NTSB ACCIDENT DATABASEGOOD DAY & GOOD FLYING GOD BLESS ::: F.B.E.

Thanks FBE -

And I think you might be right about a cover up after all. They are definitely going out of their way to keep this low key. The video of this crash used to be all over YouTube. Now you can't even find a single video of it! It's like they've all been taken down. There must be a reason for that.

Flying Blue Eagle · Feb 20, 2008, 07:51 PM

Lobrobster - AS I posted earlier , I smell a rat in the hole, I can not devaluge where I got some of my info.. I hope the last post I made will help you outand you find out something that will set your mind at ease. Most so his wife & family. Lets say this if they can get it passed as pilots error ,then it makes a lot easier for them and saves them a lot of money GOOD DAY & GOD BLESS ;;;; F.B.E.