[kellyH]

Hey Guys!
I was wondering about how you thought about prayers in school. This topic is very important to me, and I would love some other's opinions on it! Please, everyone, reply with your thoughts!
Thanks so much!

[NeedKarma]

Christian prayer is OK.. in a christian school.

[kellyH]

Why do you think so?

[NeedKarma]

People can celebrate their religion in schools that are devoted to followers of that religion. Public schools are for everyone, all races and religions, so it isn't right to select one religion to celebrate when you know that the atudents are from either several differnets religions or practice no religion.

What do YOU think?

[kellyH]

.. I think that all religions are welcome in public schools, because they should be able to have a voice and be heard. This is america, and its what its about.
If students who don't believe in christianity don't like the fact that there is prayer, then they don't HAVE to pray with them. They can ignore it.

[NeedKarma]

Actually you're wrong on all counts there but this debate has been done to death. Read more here: The Case Against School Prayer

[kindj]

I personally vote for the "moment of silence." Those who wish to pray (silently, and in accordance with their own faith) may, and those that don't----well, a "moment" isn't TOO long to be quiet and respect others.

[kellyH]

Well, thanks. I wanted opinions, and that includes opposing ones. I would like some thoughts on prayer and why it should be allowed...

[kindj]

well, thanks. i wanted opinions, and that includes opposing ones. i would like some thoughts on prayer and why it should be allowed....

I can play both sides of this one, but since you asked for reasons it should be allowed...

1. The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment. All one has to do is read the Federalist Papers (assuming one has read the Constitution) to get a very good feel for that oft-debated "Founders' Intent." It seems to me to be rather clear that the founders were absolutely dead-set against the central government (the feds) mandating any specific religion/denomination. I do NOT see public schools allowing prayer as being an endorsement by the central government of any specific religion. If anything, it's only an endorsement by that school, or that principal, or that teacher.

2. Freedom of expression/speech. If I want to pray before I start my classes, who's to say I can't? In fact, by saying I can't, isn't that a very real breach of my freedom of religion as well as my freedom of speech?

Really, though, I don't get that hung up on this issue. The way I see it, my God doesn't need Washington's approval to exist. He doesn't need for the Department of Education, the various state boards of education, the superintendents, the principals, the teachers, or the PTA to acknowledge Him for Him to exist. He's big enough that if they want to kick Him out, they can--but as soon as one child or teacher calls on Him (silently or aloud), He will be there.

I personally worry a whole lot more about those who are trying to force religion out of schools than those of us who practice our faith. Like the song says, "My judge will judge us all one day," and I fear for those people at that time.

[NeedKarma]

"Praying in school is not against the law. In fact, the U.S. Constitution guarantees students the right to pray in public schools; it is a protected form of free speech. A student can pray on the school bus, in the corridors, in the cafeteria, in their student-run Bible club, at the flagpole, sports stadium, and elsewhere on school grounds. They can even pray silently before and after class in the classroom. They are not allowed to pray solely Christian prayers as an organized part of the school schedule. However, they may be able to hear or read prayers from a variety of religious traditions and inspiring statements from secular sources. Prayers cannot solely be from a single religious faith group."

Bold added by me. Read more here: How to have prayers in public schools -- legally

[kindj]

"Praying in school is not against the law. In fact, the U.S. Constitution guarantees students the right to pray in public schools; it is a protected form of free speech. A student can pray on the school bus, in the corridors, in the cafeteria, in their student-run Bible club, at the flagpole, sports stadium, and elsewhere on school grounds. They can even pray silently before and after class in the classroom. They are not allowed to pray solely Christian prayers as an organized part of the school schedule. However, they may be able to hear or read prayers from a variety of religious traditions and inspiring statements from secular sources. Prayers cannot solely be from a single religious faith group."

Bold added by me. Read more here: How to have prayers in public schools -- legally

You're right, of course.

Like I said, I can play both sides of the card on this one.

I, for one, prefer student-led activities/organizations. That way, I know the students' hearts are in it, and they're not being coerced by parents/teachers/whoever.

[kellyH]

Do you guys think that by having prayer taken out of schools... much would be affected? Other than the hysterics who would go off the wall. Do you think that the school itself would go through much change, if any?

[NeedKarma]

I don't think much would happen at all. We don't have school prayer here in Canada and all is well.

[kindj]

No, not really.

How much religious education is in public school as it is? Pretty much zero, unless you count the percentage of schools (not many) who teach a segment of "comparitive religion," in which they outline the tenets of the three biggies, and toss in a smattering of Buddhism and Hinduism.

No, for the most part, the schools would roll on just as they have been, which ain't all that great. (Being a public school teacher, I figure I can get away with that last)

[Synnen]

I'd have no problem with prayers in school if EVERY time there was a prayer, it was taken from a DIFFERENT religious background.

Monday, Christianity. Tuesday, Buddhism. Wednesday, Hinduism. Thursday, Islam. Friday, Judaism.

Monday, Paganism. Tuesday, Satanism. Wednesday, the Roman Pantheon. Thursday, the Norse pantheon. Friday, the Celtic pantheon.

Monday, ancestor worship--are you getting the idea here?

I think that if Christians were allowed to be represented about once every 3-4 weeks, they'd be MUCH less likely to want prayer in school.

I have always stood by the statement that if you want your kids to pray in school, send them to a parochial school.

[jillianleab]

Students who wish to pray on their own during school hours, as long as it does not interrupt class time is fine. In other words, praying before you eat lunch, or taking a moment in the hall to pray before a big test, no big deal. As long as it is not led by a teacher or administrator, there's nothing wrong with it, and it should not be prohibited. The problem I see with having a moment of silence is that it still indicates the endorsement of religion. Not a particular religion, but religion in general, and we all know public schools should not be endorsing religion of any type. Also, what time do you choose for this moment of silence? Is it to take place at the start of the day? The end? What about the Muslim kids who then can't pray at their designated times? Then there's the inevitable conflicts kids are going to have - "YOU didn't pray" "What god did you pray to?" "You pray differently than me" and so on. I used to work in a daycare where there was one Jewish girl who would pray in Hebrew before snack time. The other kids would make fun of her because she wasn't speaking in English, and one girl actually came up to me and said, "Sally is weird, she's Jewish. She doesn't believe in god like you and me, that's why she prays like that." Do we really need that being introduced to public schools as a result of a moment of silence?

I personally think organized prayer or moments of silence have no place in public schools. Our kids need as much time learning as they can without things like prayer and conflicts over what god who prayed to or didn't pray to (which you know would happen) interrupting things.

[kellyH]

I'd have no problem with prayers in school if EVERY time there was a prayer, it was taken from a DIFFERENT religious background.

Monday, Christianity. Tuesday, Buddhism. Wednesday, Hinduism. Thursday, Islam. Friday, Judaism.

Monday, Paganism. Tuesday, Satanism. Wednesday, the Roman Pantheon. Thursday, the Norse pantheon. Friday, the Celtic pantheon.

Monday, ancestor worship--are you getting the idea here?

Woa, that's an idea I would have never thought of. That's a really great thought, but too bad not many schools would be too excited on participating in that. Could you imagine the outraged parents? Which would, I guess, show how close-minded people are. It would be a good oppurtunity to teach the kids about religious differences and such though. Thanks so much for your reply.

[MoonlitWaves]

woa, thats an idea i would have never thought of. thats a really great thought, but too bad not many schools would be too excited on participating in that. could you imagine the outraged parents? which would, i guess, show how close-minded people are. it would be a good oppurtunity to teach the kids about religious differences and such though. thanks so much for your reply.

I don't necessarily think people are close minded simply because they would protest the prayer of all the religions on different days. There is a difference in learning about other religions and actually participating in that religious belief/worship. Even as Christian I agree with prayer being taken out of school as a set time. The reason I am okay with it is for two reasons, 1- What if instead of Chrsitian prayer they were praying another religious prayer. I too would want prayer taken out. Secondly, our children can still pray in school if they want to, no matter the religion. That freedom has not been taken away. It is just the set time and involvement of all that has been. Which is fine because individually we can still pray in whatever religion.
What I wish hadn't been done away with is religion elective classes. In high school we were required to have so many elective courses. There were many to choose from which allowed you to choose those classes you were interested in. I don't think having a class that teaches different religions is a bad thing. Matter of fact it is a wonderful opportunity. And best of all it is elective. No one has to take it if they don't want to. I wish that were still available for children. And I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be. It does no violate any rights. Churches usually only teach their religion and denominational beliefs therefore learning about different religions from church is out. So our children must learn either through parents, there own studies or they will have to wait for college. And you know that people don't usually take theology college courses unless they plan to get a degree in theology. Therefore a great opportunity for children was eliminated when they took religion class out of schools as well.

[macksmom]

I agree with all the reasons here for not having prayer in school... well, not a "scheduled" time. Time should not be taken out of academic time to pray. If they want to pray, they can do it at times already mentioned above... like lunch, before class begins, recess, etc.

If prayer in school is so important, then those children should go to a school devoted to that religious belief... like a christian school, a jewish school... etc.

[jillianleab]

Moon, I just have to say I agree with you about offering an elective to students on the major religions of the world. I think it would be so helpful for students to learn about the diversity of religions, and the class could easily be taught without focus on a particular religion, or being taught like a sermon. If the origins and influences of the major religions of the world are taught, basic beliefs, etc, it could really promote tolerance in this country. Think of all the misconceptions about Islam, for example, and how quickly those stereotypes could be taken care of.