[dragondog]

Is that what they are making now and starting to use on animals? What are th consequences of accepting it?:eek:

[jillianleab]

I'm not really sure what you are asking here... there is a chip you can have implanted into your pet which, if your pet is lost and later found by animal control allows them to scan the chip and obtain your phone number. My dog has one, and when she got out of the yard years ago and picked up by the doggie police, they scanned her, called me, and I went to pick her up. It does not harm the animal at all.

Are you worried it might be used on people in the future, and that this is somehow the sign of the end of the world?

[Fr_Chuck]

Consequences of accepting it, let me see, you have complete medical records with you for a hopsital if you get sick, You have the ability to stop con artists, you have the ability to help catch criminials easier.
And you of course have better control of those in the US illegally.

You can find lost children better.

So let me see, all good things, can't see a problem.

They said that social security cards, credit cards, drivers license were all marks of the beast ( try to work or get a bank account without a social security number)

But every generation have had what it thought was the amrk.

[dragondog]

Someone told me that is was for some reason supposed to be a bad thing to accept even though it seems so good and helpful.
Like the mark of the devil? If you were to accept it you will never go to heaven?

[firmbeliever]

Mark of the devil, would be any and all evil.

Having to go to the doctor,getting surgery and having to put in an artificial valve in your heart, these things are medical necessities.

Are you talking about the Anti-Christ?
I am sure that these chips are not part of that,but yes having a chip in your passport animal or any other form of thing makes it easier to track people/animals down when it is needed.
I am sure this helps those who wish to be able to control cartain things.

But do bear in mind that chips or any other electronic devices cannot control the Almighty.
Heaven is not controlled by the devil and all those who enters Heaven will do so with the mercy of the Almighty.

[Wondergirl]

Someone told me that is was for some reason supposed to be a bad thing to accept even though it seems so good and helpful.
Like the mark of the devil? If you were to accept it you will never go to heaven?

Some people have too much time on their hands.

I work in a public library. Libraries are beginning to tag each book with a chip simply to get the books back again. (You would never believe how many thousands of books are stolen, even with security systems, or kept overdue or are lost and how many $$$$$ are, in effect, stolen from the taxpayers because of irresponsible patrons.) If that chip puts librarians in hell, be sure to look for me there because I totally believe in retrieving lost and overdue books.

[jillianleab]

Someone told me that is was for some reason supposed to be a bad thing to accept even though it seems so good and helpful.
Like the mark of the devil? If you were to accept it you will never go to heaven?

There are benefits to the chip system in people such as Chuck mentioned, but there are people who attribute their implementation to more sinister doings by the government. For example, if you are required to scan your chip before you enter/leave any public building, the government can see at a glance where you've been, how much time you spent there, etc. This is great for suspected child molesters who are entering schools, but what about when the feds knock on the door of every Muslim who visited the Empire State Building after a terrorist attack? Could this lead them to the attackers? Maybe, but it certainly would lead to the harassment of innocent citizens and would be an invasion of privacy. Having your medical and personal data on a chip also makes it susceptible to being "stolen" if someone is able to make a device which they can scan people at will. I'm sure someone out there would LOVE to get Bill Gates' bank info and PIN.

So there are advantages and disadvantages. If you think the implementation points to the devil, well, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that. I don't think so, but it's up to you to draw your own conclusions.

[NeedKarma]

How does the implantation of RFID chips become a religious issue? Is this what the original question is about?

[Wondergirl]

Many libraries now insist that a fingerprint scan be done so that a patron can always be identified as a legit, registered computer user. Schools have been doing the fingerprint scan on students to create an ID file in case a child ever goes missing. I think nursing homes here and there are doing something like that too, especially in Alzheimer's situations, in case a resident disappears.

[JoeCanada76]

Many religious programs have put fear in people about the mark of the beast being a chip. The chip they use to control others. It is all about interpretation but like FR.Chuck pointed out these things and advances are good for us, but in the wrong hands could be used for evil. Just like everything else we have in this world.

[NeedKarma]

I'll lay it our for the ones who may not follow the technology. RFIDs (Radio Frequency Identification) are either small chips about the size of a rice grain or can be labels attached to boxes. They emit a weak signal with a code. One needs to have readers in proximity to read the code it emits. This works very well in warehousing situations for tracking of shipments and items. A privacy problem arises when the RFID is sewn into jeans for example and readers are placed in many places as it allows the building of a database of locations and movements that can be tied to an individual. The biggest issue is of course if one is required to have an RFID implanted on their person. If you live in such a country that should be enough for the populace to revolt or for the people to move from there - it is unacceptable.

[Wondergirl]

Grocery stores have been tracking their foodstuffs etc. with RFIDs for quite a while, from what I've read. That's why your register tape will have on its back those store coupons for groceries you have purchased in the past.

[NeedKarma]

Actually that's a function of the UPC (bar codes) which have been around forever.

[Wondergirl]

Grocery packaging has RFIDs placed in it too.

[momincali]

I think what dragondog is referring to is found in the bible in the book of Revelation Chapter 13.

"And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. And he exercises all the authority the first beast in his presence, and he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast whose fatal wound was healed. And he performs great signs so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. There was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast so that the image of the beast might even speak and causes many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. And he causes all, the small and the great and the rich and the poor and the free men and the slaves to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one should be able to buy or sell except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. Here is wisdom, let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man, his number is six hundred and sixty-six."

The following is written by John MacArthur who is a well respected pastor in Panorama City, California with over 38 years under his belt. His website is called Grace to You and can be found at Welcome to Grace to You.

"Here is the world religious leader who aids and abets the Antichrist. Remember in the first ten verses you have the picture of the Antichrist, the first beast and here is his cohort, the second beast, namely the false prophet as he is called in chapter 16 verse 13, chapter 19 verse 20 and chapter 20 verse 10.

So, he causes everybody to be given a brand, a brand that is readily identifiable. We learn more about it in verse 17. "And he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell except the one who has the brand, or the mark." In other words, you can't be involved in daily commerce, you're going to starve to death frankly. You can't buy anything and you can't sell anything. You can't get any food, you can't go to the source of food and buy it because you don't have the brand. And you can't get anybody to buy it from you because you don't have the brand and you can't get any money, you can't involve yourself in daily commerce, the needs of life are therefore cut off to you. Except the one who has the mark.

Now you get the picture. One world power ruling the globe, one system of economic operation, one central controlling computer with the name of everybody. Very likely currency is gone. Controlled credit takes over. And rather than a card, which can be stolen or lost, you have a mark...a mark which identifies you as a part of the system. The mark is in your forehead or the mark is in your hand.

What is this? Well we already have it. You use it all the time. You've seen the little black strip on the back of your credit card? That contains all the necessary data to let the computer know you're in the system. And you see on everything you buy a little bar code. That's another way that the computer identifies what is passing in front of the scanner.

I have received in the mail a most interesting packet of information and discussion of where bar coding is going and I have some little samples of the sophistication of the newer kinds of bar code devices. It was sent to me by someone who wanted me to kind of understand how this fits in to prophecy, and I responded to the individual.

What it is is a little bar code system encased in a little plastic container that is designed to be embedded under your skin. It is already being used by dog owners. People who worry about losing their dog when a dog is found, the scanner exists at the pound, you pass the dog under the scanner. He's got this little bar code underneath his skin that causes him no problem at all, but it indicates immediately what dog it is and who he is and where he lives. Very simple device to us because we're used to this. Incomprehensible in ancient times. Without a global ability to identify everybody, such as you have today, the whole operation of Antichrist couldn't happen. Now it can happen, folks, you're all in the computer...all of you.

It never ceases to amaze me that I go to some city, some other part of the country and walk up to some obscure wall and stick my little card in to get cash, and it says, "Good morning, John MacArthur, what do you want? Do you want money? How much and from what account? Would you like more information? Would you like another transaction?" And you feel like saying, "Yeah, how's my wife and kids?" "Fine." And you know they know everything because systematically you've given it all to them. And when it reduces itself to the absence of credit cards and you've got to put your hand over there, or pass your forehead by the scanner and there isn't any bar code there, you don't exist. And when you can't function and you can't operate, the death sentence is on you. We are capable of doing every bit of that and having a cashless society where you never have any money, it's just a debit/credit system, you work and your employer from a computer puts into your bank account a proper figure called pay and when you buy it is deleted. And life will depend upon the bar code, the mark.

A man from Bulgaria under communism wrote some very interesting words. This is what he wrote, "You cannot understand and you cannot know that the most terrible instrument of persecution ever devised is an innocent ration card. You cannot buy or sell anything except according to that little card. If they please, you can be starved to death. If they please, you can be dispossessed of everything you have, you cannot trade, you cannot buy, you cannot sell without it," end quote. The tragic testimony of a man caught in the communist takeover of Bulgaria.


SORRY, DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS SOOO LONG!

[NeedKarma]

Grocery packaging has RFIDs placed in it too.

Agreed but that technology is used in the storage and transportation of the product. Good old bar codes are still used at checkout.

[Wondergirl]

Yes, but those chips end up in your shopping cart, get scanned when you purchase groceries, and end up in your pantry. They are just sitting there happily inactive all that time?

[NeedKarma]

I believe the rfids are only used in the bulk packaging of the product i.e. on the box containing 200 granola bars packages which get shelved and the box gets destroyed. The scanners at the cash are optical whereas the scanners required to read rfids are not (more like a radio receiver). If there are rfids in the food products it's not as big an issue since you bring the products home (no reader there) and destroy the packaging.

[peggyhill]

I know what you're talking about from Revalation, but I don't think that has anything to do with microchiping pets. That's talking about the apocalyptic, end of the world stuff. The pet micro chip thing is a really good idea. I have a dog and I would like to get one put in her. I agree with Fr_Chuck, people have thought that things in the past were the "mark of the beast" and people are OK with those things now. I think that as our technology improves, we have a responsibility to use it for good and not for evil. And I think we are using it for good, like medical records, finding our pets and kids, and making sure we stay safe. I don't think you are going against anything God says by having a microchip put in your dog. Don't worry about it.

[dragondog]

So is it not a bad thing to have people with implanted chips? Now like the process of the end of the world type thing? Well basically what I thought was that is was some bad thing that people were meant to refuse but some would be drawn too... (sorry I'm probably confusin everyone)