[Ralph Jr]

I recently bumped into another vehicle that was also backing out at the same time across the aisle in a mall parking lot. I was driving a black Mercedes sports coup and she was driving a large white SUV. When we got out to examine the bumpers there was a very slight amount of black paint on her bumper on top of existing scraches that she admitted were already there from another time when she backed up into something other than a car. I was able to rub off the small amount of black paint from her bumper and the white from mine. My bumper was clean. The old scratches and four gouges in her bumper had dirt in them. The damaged area was about 12" long by 8 inches high. She did admit that the scratches and gouges were from another accident. She was from North Carolina visiting friends here in Florida. Neither of us admitted being guilty of hitting the other. I recommended a place that buffed out small paint damages like hers. There is no damage at all to my car, the paint is like new, not even the slighest scuff mark. I do not know if her husband knows she had already scratched the bumper or not. He has an extimate for over $400 for repairs. In essence she is wanting me to pay for damages that I did not cause... how can a perfecly smooth surface (my bumper) cause deep scratches and a couple of paint gouges in her bumper ? She has a phone number for us and tax number of my car. Florida is a no-fault auto insurance state. Fault has not been established. My wife and I both heard her admit that the scratches and gouges were already there. Should we simply ingore the phone calls? We have their name and address. Should we write a letter explaining our position in the matter. Florida does not investigate minor accidents like this on private property. There are no witnesses only her word against my wife and me. What should we do? At this point we are ignoring their request for a fax number to send their $400 estimate for repairs.

[RubyPitbull]

Don't you just hate it when problems like this arise and people can't be decent about it? I would suggest you send a certified letter to them, stating what occurred in the parking lot (stress a simple bump) there was no damage to your car, the woman admitted that the scratches and damage were from a previous accident she had and no damage occurred to their car from your little bumper incident, and you will not pay for someone else's damage. Remind them that Florida is a no-fault state and if they want to repair the damage from the previous accident she was in, they should submit a claim to their insurance company.

I would send a copy of that letter to your insurance company as well. Too bad you didn't call the police at the time and be able to back all this up with a police report. But, this is the best way to start covering yourself now. I suspect the husband won't let this go. Take dated pictures of your bumper NOW. Just in case they decide to take you to small claims court. The fact that your car does not have any damage should help your case. Unfortunately, be prepared for the other woman to lie about admitting she caused the damage. It will be you and your wife's word against hers.

[Marriedguy]

This is a hard one because you don't have proof of the damages before you hit her car. The estimate is for the whole bumper to be repaired.

Option 1: Get her to agree that there was damage before and offer to pay a portion of an estimate. She has to give you three estimates, so you know it's not a friend's body shop.

Option 2: Ignore her, hope she won't take you to small claims court. This is possible because she may fear that judge will know of the previous accident. In which case she is going to have to prove the damage from the first accident was repaired.

Get prepared to go to court, you have a plate, get the VIN see if you can get documentation that states that car was in an accident so should she take you to court and lie about the car being in a previous accident you have proof... a judge will dismiss her case on that fact alone. If she doesn't lie judge will probably award her with a portion of the estimate.

[ScottGem]

Since you were both backing up and backed into each other you share fault. You have gotten good advice if you want to avoid paying anything. I'd offer to pay half just to get it out of my hair.

[michealb]

I would tell her to talk with your insurance company. The insurance company telling them that your not going to pay generally carries more weight.

[RubyPitbull]

Frankly, I think what will be a big save to him if this goes to court is the fact that he has a sports car that is free of damage, while there is an SUV that has sustained damage. That is something that should be pointed out whether in a letter to this couple or later in court. It doesn't make sense that she should incur this kind of damage in this incident and he doesn't have scratch on his car. That is a huge indicator that there was previous damage to her vehicle.

I don't know Scott. I wouldn't pay anything because it gives the appearance of guilt. What if the husband accepts half from Ralph and then decides to sue for the other half. Doesn't a court of law deem that as guilt? It might help to include a letter stating that he will pay half just to close this but he doesn't admit guilt. I just don't know how far that will get him in a court of law.

Marriedguy, it is very likely that the previous damage was never reported or recorded anywhere. She never had the bumper fixed.

I don't know, I think if he doesn't want to pay it, the certified letter is the way to go. I started thinking after I answered this that if he has their insurance company info, he should cc: their insurance company, as well as his, and if Ralph has a friend that is a lawyer, he should ask that friend if he can list him in a cc: as well. That might put a stop to it if the other guy thinks Ralph is getting an attorney involved.

P.S. sorry Michael, didn't see your post when I was writing this.

[JudyKayTee]

I don't know Scott. I wouldn't pay anything because it gives the appearance of guilt. What if the husband accepts half from Ralph and then decides to sue for the other half. Doesn't a court of law deem that as guilt? It might help to include a letter stating that he will pay half just to close this but he doesn't admit guilt. I just don't know how far that will get him in a court of law.



No, it doesn't give the appearance of guilt - any offer in settlement is just that; you are settling to end the matter. And if you offer half and they take it, get a release saying that it's in full settlement. They cash the check, it's over.

[JudyKayTee]

Don't you just hate it when problems like this arise and people can't be decent about it? I would suggest you send a certified letter to them, stating what occured in the parking lot (stress a simple bump) there was no damage to your car, the woman admitted that the scratches and damage were from a previous accident she had and no damage occured to their car from your little bumper incident, and you will not pay for someone else's damage. Remind them that Florida is a no-fault state and if they want to repair the damage from the previous accident she was in, they should submit a claim to their insurance company.

I would send a copy of that letter to your insurance company as well. Too bad you didn't call the police at the time and be able to back all this up with a police report. But, this is the best way to start covering yourself now. I suspect the husband won't let this go. Take dated pictures of your bumper NOW. Just in case they decide to take you to small claims court. The fact that your car does not have any damage should help your case. Unfortunatly, be prepared for the other woman to lie about admitting she caused the damage. It will be you and your wife's word against hers.

I would not send a copy of the letter to your insurance company - depending on the company whether there is any money paid out this could be considered a mark against you when you come up for renewal. I might ask my agent but for $400 I think I would do nothing (if you are sure the damage was not caused by you) or else I would offer what you think it is worth. You were both backing up so in NYS it would be 50/50 negligence.

[RubyPitbull]

Judy, do you know if the laws in Florida are the same as NYS? Ralph is in Florida and mentioned that it is a no-fault state like NY. But are the laws the same with regard to a claim against someone in court? If he ignores this, it might open him up to an inflated lawsuit by the other husband. I understand about the release, and that is something I would do, but not everyone knows how to go about doing that. Do you have a format that you can post that might help him? That would seem to be the most logical path for him to follow if Ralph is willing to negotiate splitting the cost.

[JudyKayTee]

You can never really protect yourself from an inflated claim; that being said I would not pay if I did not cause any of the damage and would so advise the other party, very briefly, admitting to nothing. Yes, there was an accident; you and your wife both heard her say there was prior damage; your car had no damage; you do not believe you are responsible for the $400 in repairs she is claiming. As far as a Release there are several on line - I have seen a very general one on LawDepot.com used. (I know almost nothing about Florida law - am basing anything I say on NYS law and, hopefully, common sense.)

No fault doesn't enter into the picture unless there are personal injuries. I don't even know if Florida has comparable negligence.

[RichardBondMan]

Ralph, maybe I missed it in the answers you received or in the question you posed, but you do not state if you have liability insurance and no one has suggested that you might be prejudicing the rights of your insurance company, if you have one, by not notifying them of the incident. Someone did suggest your send a letter to the other party and your insurance company - I would not do that... you may give up your insurance company's rights and it's in your policy, if you have insurance, that you should, cannot do that... someone suggested you ignore calls, etc from the party... you should not do that... forward them to your ins company if you have insurance... someone suggested your should have called the police and that's OK but they will not make any report since it was on private property and there were no injuries... so don't feel like you neglected doing that... it's not necessary... simply report the incident to your insurance company... let them handle it from beginning to end... cooperate with them... forward them any correspondence, calls, and ask them what you should and should not do...

[K_2]

You could always contact them and tell them that from the discussion you, your wife, and the driver of the SUV had that day, you all agreed that no damage occurred to either vehicle. Mention that the driver of the SUV and you did discussed the damage previously on the vehicle, but agreed that it was already there. You do not feel that you are liable for any damages, as you feel there was none. If they would be willing to send you an itemized, detailed repair estimate report from at least 3 repairs shops, you'd be willing to look over them and let a lawyer take a look at them and see if the repairs being estimated might have came as a result of that accident. (You have a right to see what repairs are being made as a result of an accident you were involved in if you are expected to pay.) But however, at this time, you don't feel there was any damages sustained and because of this do not feel you are liable for any.

If they are trying to get you to repair the damages that was already there, you'll probably hear nothing from them again. If they are wanting money paid to cover the expenses to remove paint from their vehicle that was caused by your vehicle, you'll get an itemized repair bill that states that is all that is being done.

Personally, I would only contact them via postal mail, sent certified. This way, you have proof of what you said and you would have proof that you contacted and attempted to work out a solution. Keep a copy of the letter. If you sign it in pen, instead of just typing your name... make sure that you sign it to where parts of your signature overlap some of the typing. The reason I say this is because it is not hard for scammers and unethical people to take that letter with your signature and scan it onto their computer and make a new document that you "signed". It's hard to believe someone would do this. But it does happen.

Since you and the other driver decided that day, nothing was wrong with either vehicle and now they want money for damages, I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't trying to get a quick buck from you.

I had an uninsured teenager recently back into the side of my vehicle, just behind my back tire. It only popped the bumper loose and made a slight paint mark. It cost a little over $700 for that.

[RichardBondMan]

Again, contacting the other party may prejudice your ins company's rights, thus if you do this, you may be giving up any coverage you may have under your ins policy. Those coverages include not only coverage for any legal liability for damages to the other party's property but also for legal defense coverages that are afforded to you as part of your policy... I would not contact the other party... just let your insurance company handle the matter.

[JudyKayTee]

Again, contacting the other party may prejudice your ins company's rights, thus if you do this, you may be giving up any coverage you may have under your ins policy. Those coverages include not only coverage for any legal liability for damages to the other party's property but also for legal defense coverages that are afforded to you as part of your policy..... I would not contact the other party... just let your insurance company handle the matter.

This must vary from State to State - what is the time within which the accident must be reported to the insurance company in Alabama (which is where I believe you are) in order to preserve your coverage?

I have never heard that contacting the other party can cause you to lose coverage under your insurance policy. Is this true of statements to agents working on behalf of the other party?

Someone else said that the Police will not investigate an accident on private property - this is most definitely not true in NYS. Traffic accidents are the same as any other "crime" on private property and they are investigated by the Police.

[ScottGem]

Someone else said that the Police will not investigate an accident on private property - this is most definitely not true in NYS. Traffic accidents are the same as any other "crime" on private property and they are investigated by the Police.

I can attest to that. I had an incident in a parking lot with a Verizon van several years ago. I had started to pull into a parking spot and decided it was too tight so started backing out. A Verizon van came barreling through, using the parking lot as a shortcut between two streets and I clipped him. His boss called the police and they came and wrote out a report.

[RubyPitbull]

This must vary from State to State - what is the time period within which the accident must be reported to the insurance company in Alabama (which is where I believe you are) in order to preserve your coverage?

JKT, Ralph states he is in Florida in his OP.

She was from North Carolina visiting friends here in Florida.

I think with regard to insurance companies and coverage, in the past couple of years I have noticed some major changes as to what is covered and what isn't. I never made changes to my policy or had claims, yet the limitations and restrictions have changed. If a person doesn't take a close look at their policy, they can miss it. One example, windshield replacement was covered 100% until this past year. Now there is a deductible. I think it would be wise if Ralph took a close look at his policy and use that as his guide on what his obligations are to his insurance carrier to make sure he has coverage if he chose not to report it immediately and tried to resolve this on his own.

And, yes, if called, the police would have responded and written up a report. Especially in Florida. They have these issues all the time with the elderly and it is a huge problem.

[RichardBondMan]

Several points have been brought up. 1) will the police create an accident report if the accident occurs or private property? 2) what is the time limit for reporting accidents/incidents/claims to your ins company in order to assure you are preserving coverages that may be available to you. 3) Can contacting the other party involved in the accident/incident cause one to lose some/all of their insurance coverages 4) Accidents in FL - police accident/incident reports... As to 1 above... Generally, police consider accidents on private property to be civil matters between the parties involved and will not usually write an accident report unless there are injuries, substantial property damage or should one or both of the parties insist... in some jurisdictions, it against some police dept rules to write a report at all... but generally speaking, they will not write a report. 2) in most states, the rule for reporting accidents/incidents/ in order to preserve coverage is 60 days but a responsible insured will report it immediately or as soon as practically possible... not at fault parties to an accident that suffer property damage and especially injuries generally want and deserve prompt attention to their loss/situation. 3) Lay people not versed in civil/legal/claim related issues tend to make statements either in writing or verbally that incriminate them... doing so, such as offering to "pay half the cost of the repairs", i.e. or such as "I prefer not to contact my insurance company and will pay the cost myself" not only may unintentionally obligate the at fault party but also obligate the insured's insurance company... it's OK if the insured wants to make written, verbal statements but by doing so, you then may unintentionally obligate your insurance company when it's actually them paying the loss. Let them commit or deny... 4) As to FL accidents... it's my actual first hand experience that when an accident occurs on public highways and there are no injuries and only property damage... the police, at least in my case, did not create a report, took no witness statements, didn't take the witnesses name, addr or contact tel numbers. I located the witness myself, directed my witness to the insurance company adjuster that was denying my claim because his insured incorrectly and fraudulently was claiming that I hit him in rear. My claim was paid not based on any accident report but on the witness statement from the witness that I located.

[JudyKayTee]

Several points have been brought up. 1) will the police create an accident report if the accident occurs or private property? 2) what is the time limit for reporting accidents/incidents/claims to your ins company in order to assure you are preserving coverages that may be available to you. 3) Can contacting the other party involved in the accident/incident cause one to lose some/all of their insurance coverages 4) Accidents in FL - police accident/incident reports ..... As to 1 above... Generally, police consider accidents on private property to be civil matters between the parties involved and will not usually write an accident report unless there are injuries, substantial property damage or should one or both of the parties insist ..... in some jurisdictions, it against some police dept rules to write a report at all... but generally speaking, they will not write a report. 2) in most states, the rule for reporting accidents/incidents/ in order to preserve coverage is 60 days but a responsible insured will report it immediately or as soon as practically possible... not at fault parties to an accident that suffer property damage and especially injuries generally want and deserve prompt attention to their loss/situation. 3) Lay people not versed in civil/legal/claim related issues tend to make statements either in writing or verbally that incriminate them.... doing so, such as offering to "pay half the cost of the repairs", ie or such as "I prefer not to contact my insurance company and will pay the cost myself" not only may unintentionally obligate the at fault party but also obligate the insured's insurance company..... it's ok if the insured wants to make written, verbal statements but by doing so, you then may unintentionally obligate your insurance company when it's actually them paying the loss. Let them commit or deny... 4) As to FL accidents... it's my actual first hand experience that when an accident occurs on public highways and there are no injuries and only property damage.... the police, at least in my case, did not create a report, took no witness statements, didnt take the witnesses name, addr or contact tel numbers. I located the witness myself, directed my witness to the insurance company adjuster that was denying my claim due to the fact that his insured incorrectly and fraudulently was claiming that I hit him in rear. My claim was paid not based on any accident report but on the witness statement from the witness that I located.

Concerning Police Reports - the Police, of course, did not actually witness the accident and their report is after the fact, based on statements of the parties, witnesses; however, it "should" contain a diagram, an indication of where both vehicles were damaged, any statements/admissions made at the scene. Depending on the injuries involved I very, very often find the Police Accident Report to be totally incorrect because it is based on an interview of the party with the least serious injuries and very few people ever say, "Yes, it was my fault," at the scene. It is a good idea to carry a disposable camera in your vehicle for just such occasions.

[K_2]

I am in Missouri, and my husband was backed into by a teenager who was talking in a parking lot. He called the police and they wrote a report. When I went to get a copy of the report, it didn't state fault. I had never been in an accident and thought maybe it was there and I just wasn't seeing it. So I called the police department. They said since it was private property, they do not determine fault. They only take a report to be used more as an "information report" by the insurance companies.

The insurance company was called as soon as we arrived home. They never instructed me to not speak with the other party. As my vehicle was the only one damaged, and damages didn't exceed my deductible, they suggested I try to get them to pay or file with their insurance(which they showed at scene, but when filed against I was denied due to it lapsing in June).

[Marriedguy]

NY is a no-fault state was well so the same law in this case does apply. Most states are trying to keep these type of things out of court for this very reason. Tell us how it works out I'm interested in how this turned out.