Check out some similar questions!

ETWolverine · Oct 31, 2007, 08:08 AM

A few years back, Nissan ran a commercial in which GI Joe steals Babie from Ken.

Since then we have seen Barbie's bust size reduced in order to keep from hurting the feelings of children who might not live up to the Barbie beauty standards, and Ken has become a metrosexual to teach "All-American" kids to be open to other social values than their own. Why should we be surprised to see that GI Joe is going multi-national.

It's all part of the same thing... an attempt to reduce any symbols of American superiority and nationality, even our toys, to ridicule.

Elliot

Dark_crow · Oct 31, 2007, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

A few years back, Nissan ran a commercial in which GI Joe steals Babie from Ken.

Since then we have seen Barbie's bust size reduced in order to keep from hurting the feelings of children who might not live up to the Barbie beauty standards, and Ken has become a metrosexual to teach "All-American" kids to be open to other social values than their own. Why should we be surprised to see that GI Joe is going multi-national.

It's all part of the same thing... an attempt to reduce any symbols of American superiority and nationality, even our toys, to ridicule.

Elliot

Yeah, that’s an example of the propaganda model of Noam Chomsky and Edward S. Herman, which supports the 'big lie' thesis… which states that an outrageous untruth is easier to convince people of than a less outrageous truth.:D

kindj · Oct 31, 2007, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Yeah, that’s an example of the propaganda model of Noam Chomsky and Edward S. Herman, which supports the 'big lie' thesis… which states that an outrageous untruth is easier to convince people of than a less outrageous truth.:D

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
--Vladimir Lenin

ETWolverine · Oct 31, 2007, 09:09 AM

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

Joseph Goebbels

NeedKarma · Oct 31, 2007, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by kindj

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
--Vladimir Lenin

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
Fox News :D

speechlesstx · Oct 31, 2007, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
Fox News :D

You sure have an obsession with Fox News.

ETWolverine · Oct 31, 2007, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
Fox News :D

See, you've heard this lie so often, that you actually believe it.

I seem to remember news scandals associated with CBS news, the NY Times, the Washington Post, Newsweek, CNN, and other major news outlets. Stories have actually been made up by these major news organizations. CBS and the NY Times are still apologizing over the false documentation associated with Bush's military records.

Have you ever heard of a single news scandal from FOX News, wherein they reported a story that wasn't true? I can't remember a single one.

So much for FOX as liars.

NeedKarma · Oct 31, 2007, 10:47 AM

Dear Elliot,
You drank the koolaid:

NO QUARTER: FOX NEWS, Crazy Right Wing Propaganda

News Hounds: We watch FOX so you don't have to.

ETWolverine · Oct 31, 2007, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Dear Elliot,
You drank the koolaid:

NO QUARTER: FOX NEWS, Crazy Right Wing Propaganda

News Hounds: We watch FOX so you don't have to.

Answer the question karma. Have you ever heard of a FOX News scandal in which FOX reported a story that wasn't true?

The links above are to bloggers that dislike FOX's political and editorial stance. Fine. You can dislike how they slant something. But nobody is saying that FOX is reporting stories that are not true. That IS the case with all of the news outlets that I mentioned above.

Elliot

speechlesstx · Oct 31, 2007, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Dear Elliot,
You drank the koolaid:

NO QUARTER: FOX NEWS, Crazy Right Wing Propaganda

NK, this is amusing, Fox is a crazy right wing propaganda machine for asking a bunch of questions, typos (my paper spelled "who" with two o's today, so what?) a geographical mistake and having a short reporter. ROFLMAO!

News Hounds: We watch FOX so you don't have to.

Do you not see the irony in complaining about FNC (and by extension those who watch it) and their 'lies' while telling us we don't need to check it out for ourselves because you'll keep us informed? I love it - don't watch Fox and their propaganda, you'll feed us your own.

Almost forgot this, the study on campaign coverage that shows "Fox News stories about a Republican candidate were most likely to be neutral," when it came to coverage of Democrats "neutral stories had a slight edge," and that "any sense here that the news channel was uniformly positive about Republicans or negative about Democrats is not manifest in the data."

Ain't it irritating when the facts don't support your complaint?

NeedKarma · Oct 31, 2007, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Fox is a crazy right wing propaganda machine

That's it! Cheers mate.

speechlesstx · Oct 31, 2007, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's it! Cheers mate.

Ah, if only you guys could actually make your point with facts and entire sentences...

ETWolverine · Oct 31, 2007, 02:28 PM

Karma doesn't need facts. She creates her own.

NeedKarma · Oct 31, 2007, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Karma doesn't need facts. She creates her own.

Oh honey, did I hurt your little girlie feelings? I'm sorry. Sometimes you ladies shouldn't debate with us men.

BABRAM · Oct 31, 2007, 04:35 PM

I've never known Elliot to dismiss a debate when he considers the opposing view's subject matter legitimate or a cause worthy for public consumption. I don't know that he'd waste his time on dissecting opinions from blogs. Personally it wouldn't be deemed of high importance on my list, but that's me. I'd like to challenge anyone on this site to go through the recent political posts and threads and find another expert that has taken more time to go into detail, if you agree with his views or not.

Bobby

NeedKarma · Oct 31, 2007, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by BABRAM

... find another expert that has taken more time to go into detail, if you agree with his views or not.
Bobby

There is no denying that he seems to have a lot of time devoted to it, that goes without saying. Many of us do not have that luxury.

BABRAM · Oct 31, 2007, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

There is no denying that he seems to have a lot of time devoted to it, that goes without saying. Many of us do not have that luxury.

Actually Elliot has to make time in between his bank clients and his window for sharing his views on this site are limited. He just makes better with his time than most, as opposed to some that do have the luxury, but would be better served to rid themselves of their computers in a garage sale.

Bobby

NeedKarma · Nov 1, 2007, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by BABRAM

Actually Elliot has to make time in between his bank clients and his window for sharing his views on this site are limited. He just makes better with his time than most, as opposed to some that do have the luxury, but would be better served to rid themselves of their computers in a garage sale.
Bobby

I post 90% of the time from work as well but I don't have the same free time as I'd rather talk to people here when not working on tasks. Other than work I have a wife and 2 kids and all the activities that go with that. Plus hockey season has started (playing not watching) :). I makes a difference between real life friends and interactions and the online ones, I prefer the former.

How do you know so much about him to able to speak as to how he spends his time and whether he has 'clients' or not? You live a thousand miles apart.

ETWolverine · Nov 1, 2007, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I post 90% of the time from work as well but I don't have the same free time as I'd rather talk to people here when not working on tasks. Other than work I have a wife and 2 kids and all the activities that go with that. Plus hockey season has started (playing not watching) :). I makes a difference between real life friends and interactions and the online ones, I prefer the former.

How do you know so much about him to able to speak as to how he spends his time and whether he has 'clients' or not? You live a thousand miles apart.

Hi, Karma,

It could have something to do with the fact that Bobby and I have been communicating together for nearly 10 years on this and other sites. I started with the original ASKEME back in 1997 or 1998, and I've been doing this sort of thing ever since then. When ASKME went corporate, a whole bunch of us moved over the ANSWERWAY, which worked fine until the moderators there stopped doing their jobs. Then we migrated as a group over to this site. So I've been talking to Bobby for years. We have some similar interests as well, because we both answer questions about Judaism. And his carer path and mine are similar... we are both credit analysts, though he tends to deal more with the retail side and I do commercial lending.

I don't deal with clients very often. But I do have to meet client needs and get credits approved quickly. As well as various other tasks I have during the day. I am able to do this sort of thing between my various tasks because I'm a speed-reader and a fast typist. I also have very good analytical skills and can crunch data quickly. (When that's what you do all day long you become FAST.) So I have an advantage over others when it comes to that sort of thing. But I don't think that I have any more spare time than any other person on this website. I also have a wife and two kids and not enough hours in the day.

Oh, by the way, sorry about referring to you as "she"... I was under the impression that you were female. Don't know why that is... I apologize for it.

As for my feelings... nah, it takes a lot more than anything that you have said to get me riled up. You should take a look at some of the arguments that I've had with excon. THOSE are some real knock-down drag-out donnybrooks. Ahhhh the good old days...

But I just think that when confronted with actual facts, you have a tendency to ignore them, and counter them with opinions.

For instance, when I confront you with the facts that CBS, the NY Times, Newsweek, the Washington Post and other news agencies have been caught with their pants down for telling stories that were completely untrue, but FOX has not, you counter that with opinions from bloggers. You try to counter fact with opinion.

Now... giving away a small trade secret, I'm going to tell you how to counter my argument in this case.

FOX News is only a few years old. Unlike CBS, Newsweek, the NY Times, the WA Post, and other news outlets, they have not been aound long enough to be involved in a major scandal yet. Therefore, while these other news media have had time to become dinged by various scandals, FOX News has not.

The age of FOX is a fact. The age of FOX is one good reason that they have not yet gotten burned in scandal. Just as a matter of odds, when a news agency covers thousands of stories every year, they will eventually get SOMETHING wrong. FOX just hasn't been hit with that bad luck yet. So you could counter my factual argument with a fact of your own. Instead you went to opinion without a basis in fact.

That is the difference between how the two of us argue. I lay down facts and based on those facts I give an opinion. You just go straight o the opinion, and when anyone asks you for facts to back up that opinion, you get snide and accuse them of insults, bigotry, or dismissiveness. Instead, you could try doing some research and providing facts to back up your opinion.

That's where I have a great deal of respect for excon and Skell, even though I disagree with them more often than not. Both of them provide REASONS that they believe what they believe, based on facts. The gun-control discussion Skell and I have been having is a good example. He's providing statistics and I am countering with other statistics. We are interpreting what the statistics mean. We are having an argument with a basis in facts, not just opinions without any basis. I would love to have that sort of discussion with you, Karma. You're a smart cookie, and I think it would be a fun and enjoyable discussion.

Elliot

NeedKarma · Nov 1, 2007, 07:01 AM

Hi Elliot,

I guess the difference may lie in how we view this site. I view it as a lark from work and pop in to help with the folks who have computer problems, try to protect people from getting scammed and other quick and dirty fixes. I really am not inclined to write up up 300 word retorts and search for sources to back them up. I'm a point-form kind of guy. You may have noticed that since you guys move in here hardly any new members ever venture to stick around for fear of getting gang-raped by you guys. I absolutely understand their feeling. I don't care about that stuff because, well, this is just another internet discussion board, no big woop. I try to offer a different opinion now and then to counter the almost fanatical neo-conservative slant this whole forum has taken. It's fun to get you guys riled up. :)