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lobrobster · Oct 30, 2007, 11:34 AM

Hi,

My girlfriend is Catholic and I'm a non-believer (I don't like the term atheist). We've accepted that we each have different world views (for now), and can live with that. However, she's concerned that her family won't accpet me if they know I don't believe in God.

I was born into a Catholic family, so I guess I can say I'm Catholic. Personally, I don't think it's a big deal one way or the other, but I don't like to lie about things I believe and don't believe. I guess what I'm saying is that this would only come up with her family if they specifically asked me about my beliefs. So my question is...

If it does come up, should I just lie? Or do you guys think they would accept me even though I don't believe what they do? How would YOU feel about me if I might marry your daughter? Would this be a deal breaker for you? Thanks.

NeedKarma · Oct 30, 2007, 11:39 AM

Definetely not a deal breaker for me but for differect sects you'll get a different answer. I'm very similar to you, started catholic just because that's what my parents were, pretty much everyone in the family stopped doing that worshipping thing. My wife's mom is a big church goer. I believe that religion is a private matter so it never came up. We got married in a church just to please her family. I guess her mom is cooler than I thought:). Of course I treat her daughter well so that's the main thing for them

Your mileage may differ depending on the tolerance of the parents.

kindj · Oct 30, 2007, 12:11 PM

The important thing is your relationship with your wife-to-be--SHE'S the one you have to live with, and that has to live with you. If you guys are OK with each other's respective views, then the major problem is solved.

That leaves the secondary priority which is her folks. I don't know them and won't presume to speak for them, but the possibility exists that this could be a very big deal for them, depending on their own views. I wouldn't lie, though, as that would show more disrespect (however well-meaning) than simply politely telling the truth. There's never disrespect in polite truth, even if said truth is unpleasant to the hearer.

Finally, there's the issue of kids and how they will be raised. A legitimate concern, to my mind. But then again, that's not my business. I'm sure you two have worked all of that out by this point.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

silentrascal · Oct 30, 2007, 12:12 PM

It really depends on how important it is to the family that your beau share a belief in God. Some will be tolerant of that, and others will be in an uproar over their atheism. I would not lie to them, nobody likes to be lied to, but that doesn't mean you have to volunteer that information unless directly asked. If it should come up, be open and honest about it. If it doesn't come up by them, then don't you bring it up and then all is well.

lobrobster · Oct 30, 2007, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Definetely not a deal breaker for me but for differect sects you'll get a different answer. I'm very similar to you, started out catholic just because that's what my parents were, pretty much everyone in the family stopped doing that worshipping thing. My wife's mom is a big church goer. I believe that religion is a private matter so it never came up. We got married in a church just to please her family. I guess her mom is cooler than I thought:). Of course I treat her daughter well so that's the main thing for them

Your mileage may differ depending on the tolerance of the parents.

Thanks Karma,

I'm curious if you do (or will), have any children? I'm assuming (given your FSM avatar), that you're not shy about your position on things. What will you tell your children? Does your wife share your view? Thanks.

lobrobster · Oct 30, 2007, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by silentrascal

It really depends on how important it is to the family that your beau share a belief in God. Some will be tolerant of that, and others will be in an uproar over their athiesm. I would not lie to them, nobody likes to be lied to, but that doesn't mean you have to volunteer that information unless directly asked. If it should come up, be open and honest about it. If it doesn't come up by them, then don't you bring it up and then all is well.

Well, what' not telling them? If they ask me to go to church and I decline, should I say why? Or, what if I go to church with her and her family, but don't participate in the rituals? Should I participate? Or would this be lying?

I'm mainly curious to hear how other Christians would respond to this situation. For instance, would it be a problem for you? The few times I have talked religion with believers, I find they get very offended. I also find it impossible not to offend when asked why I don't believe. Imagine trying to tell a kid there's no Santa Clause, without upsetting him.

lobrobster · Oct 30, 2007, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by kindj

The important thing is your relationship with your wife-to-be--SHE'S the one you have to live with, and that has to live with you. If you guys are OK with each other's respective views, then the major problem is solved.

That leaves the secondary priority which is her folks. I don't know them and won't presume to speak for them, but the possibility exists that this could be a very big deal for them, depending on their own views. I wouldn't lie, though, as that would show more disrespect (however well-meaning) than simply politely telling the truth. There's never disrespect in polite truth, even if said truth is unpleasant to the hearer.

Finally, there's the issue of kids and how they will be raised. A legitimate concern, to my mind. But then again, that's not my business. I'm sure you two have worked all of that out by this point.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

Thanks Kindj.

She's a believer, but for some reason, it's not a big issue for us. The most important thing to both of us is that we love each other. I'm sure problems might come up in the future over this, but I'm hoping we'll get through them.

You bring up a great (and important) point about kids. I'm not sure how we'll handle that. I definitely won't lie to my kids! They can hear her side and mine. I don't care what they end up believing as long as they think for themselves.

Smiley5 · Oct 30, 2007, 01:14 PM

My mother-in-law and I have played the Don't Ask, Don't Tell game for years. We are both aware of our conflicting beliefs, but we don't discuss them. What someone else thinks about my personal beliefs or lack thereof does not matter to me at all. I am polite and respectful enough not to confront her belief system. My husband and I have a wonderful relationship and that is all that matters.

I would however discuss this with your girlfriend and make sure that whatever her parents think, her feelings for you will not change. This is essential particularly if you wish to be her life-partner. Conflicts and disagreements with in-laws will always exist, but as long as your relationship is strong enough to withstand whatever they throw at you, everything will be fine.

NeedKarma · Oct 30, 2007, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by lobrobster

Thanks Karma,

I'm curious if you do (or will), have any children? I'm assuming (given your FSM avatar), that you're not shy about your position on things. What will you tell your children? Does your wife share your view? Thanks.

We have 2 kids. The first was baptised but then, against our wishes, my mother had some baptismal type party at their house where guests showed up and brought presents. Our second is now 2 1/2 and will not be baptised unless he wants to in the future. We are raising our kids without any religion at all. If our kids ask us later we'll tell them that we (parents) are not religious at all but if they are curious about it they are free to look into it and we'll help them. This system works because my wife and I are on the same page.

silentrascal · Oct 30, 2007, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by lobrobster

Well, what' not telling them? If they ask me to go to church and I decline, should I say why? Or, what if I go to church with her and her family, but don't participate in the rituals? Should I participate? Or would this be lying?

I'm mainly curious to hear how other Christians would respond to this situation. For instance, would it be a problem for you? The few times I have talked religion with believers, I find they get very offended. I also find it impossible not to offend when asked why I don't believe. Imagine trying to tell a kid there's no Santa Clause, without upsetting him.

Well, ultimately FOR ME, I wouldn't put myself in this situation because the Bible counsels Christians to only marry "in the Lord", and what else is the ultimate goal of dating but to find someone to marry. So in that sense, I would look for someone who shares my faith and my belief in God and complete trust in the guidance of the Bible. Otherwise, by marrying a non-believer or a believer in another faith, one could be opening up a can of potentially a whole host of problems. (I think you may even already be aware of this, given that you said you both accept each other's world views "for now", am I right?) This isn't a hard-and-fast rule for everyone, of course, but if I were in her shoes, I'd have to begin by examining my own faith and what direction the Bible gives in principles to be considered for dating and marriage.

But in your situation, again, it depends on how devout the family is. Do you know for a certainty (and YOU would know) whether the subject would be brought up and most likely how the family would react? If you should decline an invitation to some event of theirs and don't give a reasonable explanation why, try putting yourself in their position as looking at someone dating their daughter, who is supposed to be spiritually-minded, and while not religious themselves, wouldn't be there to give her encouragement in her faith.

But again, these are your circumstances and I wouldn't presume to tell you to do anything, just offering some things to consider.

Wangdoodle · Oct 30, 2007, 07:29 PM

Hi lobrobster

First, I will repeat what others have said. I don't think to lie about your beliefs would be a good Idea. You need to remain honest with your girl friends parents. Being respectful, caring , and honest will go far with most people.

Second, I am a Catholic father of two girls. They are young and it will be a long time before they start dating. (I hope!) I can tell you that I would prefer that they date and marry other Catholics. This is my preference , but not my requirement. My wife and I are raising them to be their own person. They will decide who they want to marry, however we would prefer that they be Catholic. I can also tell you that who ever they decide two marry, I would have a great deal of respect for them if they were to be totally honest with me. My wife and I will accept and respect the decisions of our daughters. We will welcome and love whom every they should choose.

Just remember that to people of faith, that faith, in many cases is who they are. You don't sound like the kind of person that would be disrespectful of their faith, but what ever you say about their faith, is like saying it about them.

jillianleab · Oct 30, 2007, 07:53 PM

It's probably best to be honest, but not confrontational. Don't criticize the beliefs her family has, don't get into a debate with them. If they get preachy on you (depends on the type of people they are) smile, nod, and try to move on. You may end up getting a sermon, but who knows, they might not care. Remember you are dating THEIR daughter and you are a GUEST if you are in their home. Even if they are in your home, or you are on neutral ground, it is important to be polite and respectful. They might hold the belief that all atheists or non believers are evil and have no morals - show them they are wrong by being a good person. If they ask you to join them in church, just politely tell them, "no thank you".

Hopefully it won't be a problem for you, but be prepared. Talk to your girlfriend, does she think her family will have a problem with it? Does she think the topic will come up? My husband and I are both atheists; his mom's side is all Catholic, his dad's side is all Christian - to be honest, the topic of my beliefs or his has never come up. We have no kids, but we have nephews who haven't been through any religious ceremonies and no one seems to care (our wedding didn't even contain the word "god" come to think of it), even though his grandparents regularly attend church. So you never know, you could be surprised!

Choux · Oct 30, 2007, 08:08 PM

Just a bit of advice: if you can't back up your position as a non-believer in a discussion with friends, that is show that you have studied the matter in depth, DON'T tell parents of girlfriends that you are a non-believer. They will make you look foolish. :)

Just like you wouldn't discuss your sex life with your girlfriend with her parents, don't discuss religious matters. The big no-nos are sex, poliltics and religion. Just finesse these topics.

lobrobster · Oct 31, 2007, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by Wangdoodle

Hi lobrobster

First, I will repeat what others have said. I don't think to lie about your beliefs would be a good Idea. You need to remain honest with your girl friends parents. Being respectful, caring , and honest will go far with most people.

Second, I am a Catholic father of two girls. They are young and it will be a long time before they start dating. (I hope!) I can tell you that I would prefer that they date and marry other Catholics. This is my preference , but not my requirement. My wife and I are raising them to be their own person. They will decide who they want to marry, however we would prefer that they be Catholic. I can also tell you that who ever they decide two marry, I would have a great deal of respect for them if they were to be totaly honest with me. My wife and I will accept and respect the decisions of our daughters. We will welcome and love whom every they should choose.

Just remember that to people of faith, that faith, in many cases is who they are. You don't sound like the kind of person that would be disrespectful of their faith, but what ever you say about their faith, is like saying it about them.

Thanks wangdoodle,

But here's something I don't understand...

If you are Catholic (and really believe Catholic teachings), then you must really think there is a heaven and hell that people go to when they die. If so, how can you take even the slightest chance that one of your daughters will be spending eternity suffering in hell?

Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but I don't understand what it's like to believe in these things. If I really did believe in an eternal hell, then I would do everything possible to make sure my loved ones wouldn't get corrupted by some godless heathen who was surely doomed to hell.

lobrobster · Oct 31, 2007, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Choux

Just a bit of advice: if you can't back up your position as a non-believer in a discussion with friends, that is show that you have studied the matter in depth, DON'T tell parents of girlfriends that you are a non-believer. They will make you look foolish. :)

Just like you wouldn't discuss your sex life with your girlfriend with her parents, don't discuss religious matters. The big no-nos are sex, poliltics and religion. Just finesse these topics.

Thanks Choux,

The sole reason I'm a non-believer today, is precisely because I can back up my position through well thought out reasoning. So yes... I've thought a great deal about my position very deeply. I highly doubt any believer could make me look foolish on this topic.

Sex of course, is very personal. I don't see her parents suggesting that we all engage in some sex before a holiday dinner. They might however, suggest we join in a prayer or blessing.

jillianleab · Oct 31, 2007, 07:53 AM

If they ask you to join in a prayer or blessing before dinner sit quietly and wait for it to be over. Think of it this way - the prayer they say means nothing to you, so where's the harm in allowing them to speak it? Would you protest if instead of prayer they all went around the table and recounted the best part of their day before eating? It's no different, and there's no reason you can't sit quietly and respectfully. If they ask you to lead, decline by saying you are not comfortable doing such things and leave it at that.

beatlejuice · Oct 31, 2007, 01:46 PM

I think most Christians are not okey with their children marrying a non believer however some don't really care. So like everyone is saying it depends on the family. I am a Christian and I know my parents would rather I don't marry at all rather than marry an atheist, so that one extreme then you have parents who don't mind. But as long as she is fine with it then it shouldn't be an issue because if she has the problem then there maybe problems in future in your marriage if you don't have the same beliefs. Just because you are a non believer does not mean you must not go to church if they ask you to come. Just be open minded and maybe use it as a learnig experience to learn about your girlfriends beliefs. Good luck :)

RustyFairmount · Oct 31, 2007, 06:09 PM

I find it interesting that you choose to call yourself a non-believer rather than an atheist. That means there's hope for you yet! Non-believers are people who just aren't convinced in God. Athiests are hell-bent against people who believe in God.

As long as there is hope, as long as you don't fight with the family, you'll get along just fine. So don't lie.

Wangdoodle · Oct 31, 2007, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by lobrobster

Thanks wangdoodle,

But here's something I don't understand...

If you are Catholic (and really believe Catholic teachings), then you must really think there is a heaven and hell that people go to when they die. If so, how can you take even the slightest chance that one of your daughters will be spending eternity suffering in hell?

Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but I don't understand what it's like to believe in these things. If I really did believe in an eternal hell, then I would do everything possible to make sure my loved ones wouldn't get corrupted by some godless heathen who was surely doomed to hell.

This isn't a dumb question. I think however, you maybe assuming that we are not raising them in the faith. We are. That is way I trust that they will make good decisions as adults. When I say I will not require them to marry other Catholics, it means I will not force them to. I couldn't imagine doing that. In fact that would not be a valid marriage in that case.

I take my roll as a parent very seriously. It is a great responsibility of the parent to instruct their children in the faith to lead them to eternal life. As children, I can protect them from "godless heathens", but as adults they must draw on what they have been taught. I will pray they keep the faith, and be there to guide, but I can not force my will on them. They will know how important it is to marry like minded believers, but ultimately the choice is theirs.