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BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 22, 2007, 04:04 PM

I do understand world history... it's one of my favorite classes... usa history is just plain boring! And although Japan and all these other countries have their good share of crulities in their history I don't live there! I live here in the US and I'm ashamed knowing what our country was built on just as I'm sure these other countries are ashamed of their ancestors. About two weeks ago Maria Blumenthal-Leza (writter of Four Perfect Pebles, don't think I spelled her name right though) she said that when she has gone to German schools a few time many of the kids look very ashamed of what happened.

Tuscany · Oct 23, 2007, 09:09 AM

I hate to tell you but the British and Spanish Imperialism is what started America. Every country has things in their past that they are not proud of. We need to learn from them so that we don't make the same mistakes twice. You seem very intellegant and it surprises me that you would not have an open mind when it comes to learning about the past. By remaining ignorant to the history of the US you have far less power to change the world today.

BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 23, 2007, 09:29 AM

Well I suppose everyone has a closed mind to something. American history is something I will never like... my step dad is black and I remember when my mom was trying to put together his family tree and although I don't really like my step dad. It made me so mad when we couldn't continue his family history because blacks were traded and there names changed to their owners demand that we couldn't find his ancestors. Anything else I'm completely open to and will do my absolute best to not be prejudace about it. The way that this country is built is something I will never like and never agree with. I hate US History cause every day I hear one more thing we did that was wrong to get where we are. As for changing the world... as long as I can make the world around me better then I'm fine... Few people listen to me... there's no way I could ever change the world.

ScottGem · Oct 23, 2007, 10:11 AM

You are missing the point. Was slavery a blot on our history? Sure it was. But in the context of the 17th and 18th centuries, slavery was fairly commonplace and it was only towards the end of the 18th century that enlightened people started to believe slavery was wrong. To hate people or hate American history because of something that happened 150 years ago, is foolish.

You seem to be looking fopr what we did wrong and not what we did right.

BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 23, 2007, 10:19 AM

Lol you... I tend to do that... check out the teens section... I actually have a post there about that. I have low self esteem whether it seems that way or not. I tend to over analyze things and always find the bad things before the good and that normally will over ride my opinion. Sometimes the good will out way the bad but sometimes it doesn't. In this case I know the good things in history but I look more at the bad then anything else. Normally I just do this with things about myself and things that happen to me but I guess now my way of thinking about myself has transferred to how I think about other things. It's my thing I guess...

donf · Oct 23, 2007, 04:43 PM

Please BiWiccan,

Remember at least try to remember that you are in a country where you are free to think what you may. You can basically speak your mind about anything as long as you are not preaching sedition or panic.

You can travel anywhere in the US with a limited amount of intrusion from the authorities. You can practice any faith you desire or no faith at all. And yet you hate this place that is your home. I cannot understand that and I probably will never understand your point of view.

My brother was a combat Marine and Missile Technician at Chu Lai in the Republic of Viet Nam. Fortunately, he served although wounded twice and came home a whole person. He was much more luckier than several other friends of us. By the way, he was spit on because he was in the uniform of his country, when he arrived at JFK in New York.

You speak of the disgusting way in which the Whites treated the Native Indians, but by your very own omission you don't like to read or watch anything relating to the Road to the West.

Somehow you've managed to forget or maybe you never knew what kind of person the Indian Warrior was. He was barbarian among a of village of barbarians. He was a member of a nomadic tribe that believed all land within their domain was theirs and killed to keep others out. He was as skilled a killer as any soldier. They attacked, killed and imprisoned any survivors that they wanted as slaves, the rest were killed.

You speak of slavery like America discovered it and profited because of slavery. You may never have been told this, but if you want to track slavery, read the bible and then go backwards in time. You forget that the War Between the States, known as the Civil War which killed more Americans than any other war on record at this time. Do you know why that is true?

While it is perfectly acceptable to be intrigued by the History of Japan and England you seem to have culled out of your memory that it was Japan that attacked Pearl Harbor killing any human being out in the open or in a building. The only other strike against US soil was the NY Towers which took the lives of more than did Pearl Harbor. Oh by the way very few of the people that died in the Towers were within the US Military Complex. Several of the firemen that died were friends of my brother Rich. Rich was pulled down from his firehouse in Harlem to assist at the first bombing at the WT Center. While out, the firehouse was ransacked.

Up until a year before the attack on the WT Center my nephew Michael worked at the towers. He changed jobs and was working up on 42nd. And Broadway. From his windows, they watched the entire event. It took him more than twelve hours for him to get to a phone and call his mom and wife. Yes he called mom first!

This country may not be perfect but it is my country and I truly respect the price paid in blood of both combatants and non combatants who paid for our freedom with there very lives.

Yes you have the right to speak out against our history, and I have to respect your right to do so, I don't have to like it but I do have to respect your rights. However that is here in America. Go to China, Cuba, Viet Nam and talk trash against their government and history. Would you want to guess or take a bet as to how long you would be allowed to roam free?

BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 24, 2007, 10:01 AM

For one thing the indians were NEVER barbarians! Remember you are calling the same people that helped us to harvest this land we we first arrived here barbarians! Many people believe that is how that people was because of yellow journalism (writting untrue things to the public in order to get more reviews) and because the people trying to get rid of the indians wanted everyone to be afraid of them not sympathetic of them. The indians only became "barbaric" when we attacked them, tried to make them switch to our beliefs, and take their land! I love this country and our rights but I hate how we got it. I'm ashamed of it just as I'm sure many people are ashamed of things in their histories past.

templelane · Oct 24, 2007, 10:27 AM

This is something my father told me and to which I agree,
"You cannot judge yesterday's people by today's standards."

It just doesn't work, and it is unfair. You cannot change the past you can only hope to make the future better.

Emland · Oct 24, 2007, 10:29 AM

I don't believe the sins of the father are visited on the son. I feel no shame for what was done hundreds of years ago. Some of it makes me mentally cringe, but feeling shame would mean that I participated in it. Slavery still exists in today's world. No one seems to care much, never hear about it on TV. You also never hear much about the indentured servants. Those individuals that willingly sold themselves or their children into servitude just to get to the America's. Some would work out their contract then go back into servitude just to get their wife or parents over. Nations grow and develop and the way they develop depends on the people who live there.

ScottGem · Oct 24, 2007, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by BiWiccanAndProud

For one thing the indians were NEVER barbarians! Remember you are calling the same people taht helped us to harvest this land we we first arrived here barbarians!

Sorry but your lack of knowledge of real history shows again. What you don't understand is that the native americans that the colonists found here comprised MANY different tribes. Each of these tribes had their own languages, religions and cultures. Just as its wrong to lump all of them as barbarians its also wrong lump all of them together as being friendly and cooperatives and exploited. That's actually part of the story of The Last of the Mohicans. Uncas and Hawkeye were from a tribe friendly to the english settlers. They went after a different trbie that were much more savage and barbaric. This experience was repeated time and again as the settlers moved west. Some tribes were peaceful and cooperative others attacked, taking scalps, burning people alive and other actions that were considered by the more civilized europeans as savage and barbaric.

Its unfortunate that the good were tarred with the same feathers (pun intended) as the bad, but to deny that there were savages among the american indian tribes is just as wrong as to claim they were all just genetle, peaceful people thrown off their lands.

donf · Oct 24, 2007, 07:10 PM

Scott,

I was speaking of the Great Plains Indians, not the Upper North East area. I am using the term barbarian that would most closely fit their behavior when fighting. I was not intentionally lumping all tribes together under the heading of Indian. I apologize for confusion.

This young lady is one for the books. She equates "Yellow Press" to the stories about the Indians, yet there was no such term until the Spanish American War.

Tuscany · Oct 25, 2007, 04:20 AM

My mom used to say "those dang teenagers think they know everything." I am starting to think she is right, they do think they know everything. No matter how misguided they are.

BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 25, 2007, 05:43 AM

-_-' well we were learning of as you put "yellow press" right now in my u.s. history class and we weren't talking about the spanish... we are talking about the indians. And I don't think I know everything -.-... hell I think I'm one of the dumbest people on the planet.

ScottGem · Oct 25, 2007, 05:51 AM

The term "yellow journalism" originated just before the end of the 19th century to describe the questionable tactics of rumor mongering, scandal mongering and other sensationalism that occurred during the circulation wars between New York papers owned by Pulitzer and Hearst. I have never heard the term referred to about reporting of Indian encounters in the West which mostly occurred 20 or more years earlier.

Either your teacher is teaching you incorrectly or you are mixing things up (I vote for the latter).

BiWiccanAndProud · Oct 25, 2007, 06:23 AM

Or maybe it really is time that my school gets new u.s. history books... here I'll check my notes real quick... okay my mistake. We did hear about the spanish war and the note on yellow journalism came after but you can't blame me for mistaking the only note we took on the spanish war (my teacher puts together notes on a slide show and we take them down on our school laptops while he talks) but here's the note "In the spring of 1898, war began between Spain and the United States." and then we got into talking about the Cubans. But I do remember my teacher talking about how people would over exaggerate how the indians acted in the papers and he called it yellow journalism. I remember mainly cause I was confused that he would use a term we didn't cover yet and then we did a couple sections later.