[shatteredsoul]

My sister is now in her thirties. She has suffered from depression, anxiety, and other issues since she was in high school. She is extremely intelligent, artistic and book smart but has difficulty dealing with day to day issues. She has never been diagnosed and doesn't stick with traditional therapy or medication. She is so well read on antidepressants, that she refuses to take them based on their possible side effects. She tried to committ suicide a few years ago and for awhile after she was OK. She cannot keep or make friends, make decisions, hold a job, decide where to live or what to do and is basically immobilized. She overanalyzes situations to the point of becoming overly sensitive to anxious, to downright depressed. She is married but not happily. She has a two year old and he is the one thing that keeps her going. Ironically, she is an incredible mother.
She checked herself into a mental hospital over the weekend while I was out of town. She doesn't have insurance so she wasn't able to get treatment right away. She checked out on Monday and my mother picked her up feeling very frustrated and saddened that they couldn't help her. My mom is wondering if we should put her into a private facility that would be able to evaluate her, diagnose her and medicate her properly. She realizes that it will cost thousands a day, and that she will have to put it on her credit card. We are having a difficult time finding the right place for her to go. I told my mom I will leave work and take care of my nephew until she is better. Her husband doesn't make enough to take off and there are other issues with him as well.

How do we go about finding the right place? How do we handle this? I have said in the past that I think she has Asperger's Syndrome ( a form of autism) although she has never had a doctor tell her that. I have spoke with specialists and her childhood and behavior resemble my sister almost perfectly. My father thinks she has early symptoms of schizophrenia. I don't think that is what she has but no one knows.

:( WHAT DO WE DO? She is very indecisive and becomes combative and argumentative easily. We don't want to scare her, we want to help her. I think she is asking for help if she went and checked herself in somewhere. However, she tends to withdraw from us and then it is difficult to get her to do what we want or think she needs. HELP!! I am so scared and sad and worried and feel so helpless, my mother is a wreck. She has been seeing a therapist on how to handle my sister and how to respond to her. She has stopped taking care of her financially because he thinks we have rendered her helpless and created a sense of dependency but with this, if we don't help her, then she may continue to spiral into a place that we cannot pull her out of! HELP!! :confused:

[METERRE]

Wow shattered, I'm really feeling it, for your sister as well as for you. Because something that affects someone, also affects the people around that person... like in this case. Your sister did good on going somewhere for help, at least she realizes she needs it and wants to do something about it. Which that is hugely important.
I really wish I could help out, but right now I got to say I'm in her same situation. I know there is someone who will enlighten you about this situation better. And I hope she'll get the help she needs soon, because once you realize how much help you need, it gets worse when you try reaching out and you can't do anything about it.
I came into depression when in high school also... and I've always had other issues since childhood. No one has ever diagnosed me with anything either cause I haven't seen any specialists. So I know a little how your sister must feel. Possibly very frustrated. And just to mention it, I told my mom, sister, and aunt what happened to me as a kid. She is feeling badly about it, and so am I. It has affected me tremendously in many ways.
But anyway I'm not here to talk about my issues, I wanted to try to help, but found out I couldn't because I'm also needing some help myself at this point.
So good luck in helping your sister out. She really needs it, although it would've been good if she would've sought for help earlier.

[shatteredsoul]

Please talk about your life, it will help me understand through her eyes.. this isn't just about me, this is about understanding mental illness. I need to understand and maybe your experience will help me to respond differently... please I need to hear whatever anyone has to say. I am not trying to sound desperate, I really need some guidance.

[firmbeliever]

Sorry I can't be of more help.

I hope someone comes here with expert advice for you shattered.
My heart goes out to you.

Hugggs to you.Hang in there girl!

[shatteredsoul]

Thanks Firmy, I too am waiting...
I know you would help if you could.
Hugs to you, always

[KBC]

Hi,

I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND this post too!

My empathy for your sibling is tremendous(and sympathy for you and yours too)

Once a person is convinced that 'What works for others,won't work for me because... 'There is a very hard battle ahead,until they(the sufferer) reach out for the help,they know deep down,they need.

I have been on and off medications for mental illnesses for 12 years or so,sometimes its just the side effects that spoil the serenity,other times it's a mental urging that stops me from thinking rational thoughts(Afterthoughts are "Why did I EVER get off them,I could have avoided all this mess by just doing what the professionals suggested")

As far as insurance or some other kind of coverage,

Call the hospital,clinic,psychologist,psychiatrists,mental health board in your county,social security,anyone that's affiliated with the mental health field.There is a lot more help out there than the average person thinks,it just takes effort to find.In my case I could do for myself,in a friends case his family had to do all the legwork,it took time and patience,but they love him and want him to advance in life,not stay in the same rut he's been in for so many years.

Sometimes we have to do for others what they cannot do for themselves.

Please,don't feel responsible for her illness,only feel responsible for her recovery from it.

I am posting a few sites that deal with bi-polar support(although it might not apply to her situation,it is a starting point for you to look for a site smiler to it.)

How to Recognize, Cope and Deal with Your Loved One's Bipolar Disorder

Bipolar Parenting

Discover the Comprehensive, Proven System That’s Helped My Mom and Thousands of Other People with Bipolar Disorder Rebuild a “Normal” Life

And this one to look a symptoms of bipolar.

Allsup - Free Bipolar Evaluation

I really hope this helps,

Ken

[shatteredsoul]

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and share your own experience. I am learning a little at a time and I will read all of the links you have posted in an effort to gain more clarity and insight. The problem is, we don't know what exactly she is suffering from, we only see the symptoms. To some, it just seems she is lazy, difficult and inable to be productive. Since we can't see what she has, like downs syndrome or other physical impairments, it makes it more difficult to understand. Especially because she is so intelligent and opininated and capable of caring for her child. Yes, you have a very good point that we need to do whatever to help her, if she cannot help herself. I only hope that we can do it in time.. and that it works. Ken, I really appreciate you reaching out to me, I feel very lonely and afraid for her, and understanding what others deal with and go through, helps me to see she is not alone and neither am I.
That is a great comfort in this moment and I look forward to every person sharing their perspective with me, so that I can learn what it is like for her...
It is always different when it happens to your family, it is so much easier to advise others than to advise myself. Thank you again.

[ordinaryguy]

I am so scared and sad and worried and feel so helpless, my mother is a wreck. She has been seeing a therapist on how to handle my sister and how to respond to her. She has stopped taking care of her financially because he thinks we have rendered her helpless and created a sense of dependency but with this, if we don't help her, then she may continue to spiral into a place that we cannot pull her out of!! HELP!!!!!

If only it were clear what "help" is, exactly. This is so hard. One wouldn't let a toddler loose on a freeway in the name of honoring his freedom of choice and responsibility for his own actions. Yet, to continually shield an adult from the consequences of their own choices breeds dependency and prevents real maturity. It's hard enough even without mental illness, but that just takes it to a whole other level.

All I can think of to offer on the question of how to truly help your sister is to always ask yourself in every situation what she is actually capable of at this time, and do for her only what she can't (not won't) do for herself. If she is capable of making constructive choices, but is unwilling to do so, then she may need to attend the school of experience for awhile longer. How to distinguish between inability and unwillingness is the really hard part. I wish I had more to offer. I will bear you in my heart and mind as I go about my day. Bless you.

[shatteredsoul]

GOsh Cowboy, you just described the whole deal in a few sentences. This is the struggle we have been dealing with... letting her make choices, but not sure which ones she can't or just won't make. It is the hardest thing to watch someone so beautiful, intelligent and talented feel so horrible and distraught, leaving her completely immobilized. We have done way too much in the past and now we are afraid to not do enough. Just answering me and being here, really makes a difference.. I hope that others who read this who feel the same way, or have someone in their life who does, reach out to me, because it is the only thing that keeps me from falling apart. Staying strong alone, and for everyone else is just about the hardest thing I can do really.. You are always there with a kind word and that is what is so special about you, NEVER AN ORDINARY GUY!

[Chery]

Dear Shatteredsoul.

Without a definitive diagnosis, there is not much that can be done. I know how hard it is to be aware of an ailment and not being able to 'identify' it.

I took the first step late in life because I needed to know myself what is so 'different' about me. I too do not condone antidepressants as a 'cure all' and hate the side effects, so I began treating myself. Which, is something no clinician, lawyer, or therapist should do.

I do believe sharing one's inner feelings and reaching out is important, but know that those who are close and unable to fathom the depth of our painful existence essentially cannot help.

The support is sometimes taken constructively and sometimes make us feel we are a burden and that makes things worse. So I think the first step for your sister to take is to get an evaluation to define the exact type of mental disorder she has. Then, it will still be up to her is she wants to accept medicinal therapy or is willing to seek counseling for stabilization.

We all go through denial too, and need support in finally accepting that there is no shame or blame involved.

Bless you for loving and caring so much that you want to help others take that first step. And yes, I know how hard it is when loved ones are inflicted...

Just don't give up on her.

Lots of love and hugs... Chery

Fear of the unknown within ourselves is worse than any other fear in the world.

[shatteredsoul]

Chery,
The support we give her is almost exactly as you describe. She tends to feel like a burden and gets angry with us and withdraws. She is trying to follow up with the state to see what they can offer her, but without insurance, it is limited. That is why we thought maybe a private facility could help. The problem is, if she wants to finally recognize what it is, rather than just telling everyone how sad, lonely, depressed and unsure she is about everything. I mentioned to her one time about considering the possibility of her having Asperger's Syndrome, she FLIPPEd out on me. I have learned that I have to respond to her in a way that doesn't make her defensive, although my parents and I almost always get that response, regardless. Yes, I will never, ever give up on my sister. I love her with all of my heart and I just want her to have peace of mind, to be happy and healthy. She has stayed with me before but that didn't work out, she doesn't feel comfortable in her own skin, let alone someone else's space. She has stayed with my dad and they usually end up fighting and she comes home within a couple weeks. My mom does everything to help her but won't let her live with her, because it will foster a greater sense of dependency on her and that also is unhealthy.. My family members have offered her to come stay with them. The ironic thing is Chery, that I have a family of educators, in the field of social work, behaviorism and special needs, and NONE of us can help her because we are too closely involved.
I recognize the importance of what you are saying and we cannot fathom her experience of what she is going through. BUT people like you, who have been there, CAN.. this is why I began this thread.. So I can say the things here that I can't say to her and continue to broaden my awareness of such unexplainable pain and suffering.
I have always been able to manage my life and up until the past few months, I never had any real negative thoughts or sadness . I realize through losing people that I too can succumb to pain and sadness, but I have an inner strength that somehow pulls me through. I know I am a good person and worthy of love... my sister doesn't even believe that. That is the saddest part of all.. I admire your strength and your ability to fight for your own peace and happiness. I am in awe of your desire to help others in the process.. Thank you my friend. As always, you are straight from the heart.

[JoeCanada76]

Hello Shattered,

My step fathers side of the family are full of actual follow through suicides. Depression and mental illness is common. My step fathers mother committed suicide when he was young. My step fathers cousin and uncle. As well their was a uncle by marriage who tried to drive his van off the cliff. They took him into the hospital and then released him. Thought everything is okay and then a month later my step father found him dead. I am not trying to scare you or anything but I am going to get to what I am trying to say. There is a lot of turmoil in somebodies mind if they want to end it. This is of course my own personal thoughts and oppinions. Can I understand the depth of this probably not. Although I have to admit in my teenager years I often thought about ending my life. Things have always been a struggle. Of course, Never attempted but thought of it. Too be honest with you about medications, I do believe and have read that there is even a greater risk of somebody committing suicide that is on medication. The reason is one of the side effects are depression and suicidal thoughts and that medications to treat depression can actually make it worse. There are other ways and other steps to take in somebodies life to figure out how to mend and heal. All I know is that YOU can not stop somebody from committing any act. Each person has a choice. I would actually be thankful that your sister actually checked herself in. She should be given praise for doing it. Instead of you and your mother being in turmoil over this. Be thankful that your sister admits that she has a problem and does seek out some sort of help, I am in her way of thinking that medications will only make the problem worse plus it will just make her more dependent on something else. Also Medications are a band aid solution. There needs to be a long term solution. I also feel that just because she has these tendencies you explained in your post does not mean she necessarily has a certain medical problem and nothing was officially diagnosed. I would also suggest a complete medicall including hormone imbalances and other medical posibilites, like thyroid or anything else that might contribute. I also agree with the doctor that it sounds as if she is way to dependent on people around and that the only way to help her grow is by not helping out in certain ways. As far as treatments or care, there should be programs, that are cost free that will help intervene in certain situations it is just a matter of looking into different programs that might be available in the community. Small steps. As far as turmoil for you and your mom. It should not be up to you or your mother to be financially responsible for her care. You need to realise that you can want to help her as much as you want but it is up to her to seek it out. She did by checking in. If she does not want to seek any kind of medical attention you nor your mother can have any control over that. You need to remember that you and your mother can not control or make decisions for somebody else. Sometimes you have to just let go and hope they learn from whatever mistakes they make and also let them live with the consequences of their choices. Just show compassion and love and make sure she knows that you will always give emotional support. As long as she knows you care. The only thing is when there is such a strong reaction from your mother and you. With sadness and frustration it only will make her feel worse. I believe you need a different approach like letting her know how proud you are that she checked herself in.

I want to write more but have to go.
Please let me know what you think about what I wrote.

Joe

[shatteredsoul]

Yup, you have a point Joe. I think sometimes we just want to make it better and we don't really know how. It is all from the best of intentions. I know what you are saying about medication and that is true. She knows that and that is why she always knows exactly what they are prescribing. I don't want a band aid or an immediate fix. I have watched her for the past 16 years be unhappy, unsettled, depressed, socially withdrawn, ridden with anxiety and incapable of finishing school or staying in one place. It is so frustrating. I think that no one can make someone help themselves. We have pulled back tremendously, to let her navigate her own way and seek the help that she needs to get. The problem is, when you care so much for someone and you see them trying to finally take action, the impulse is to help. We haven't made any decisions for her and my parents have applauded her efforts to to take small steps to finding help. I have tried to call her, but she hasn't returned my calls. I only leave messages saying I just want you to know I love you and I am here if you want to talk.. She called me collect from that place she checked into. She didn't know I was in North Carolina. She was trying to reach out to me and I wasn't there.. it seems I always fail her without even meaning to.. IT makes me feel like I can never do what is right. DO you know what I mean? It would almost be easier if she was a drug addict. AT least in the sense of helping her.
She is very aware of how to take care of her body, she knows all about pesticides and steroids and growth hormones. She eats organic food and takes vitamins. She doesn't have a thyroid problem that I know of, but I guess it can't hurt to check. She has been to a naturopathic doctor in the past, and she wanted to go again but they are expensive and again, no insurance.
The bottom line is, we don't want her to be medicated to cover up the problem.. we just want to know what the problem is to be able to find the best way to help her. I don't think she is crazy, I do think her brain is wired differently, I really believe she can manage it, if she understands what it is.. I really think it is Asperger's and if she could get diagnosed with that, there are many different resources, and ways of managing that. However, if she is reluctant to labeled than again, we are back at square one. The reason we thought maybe a private center may be helpful, is because maybe they would have the resources to properly diagnose her. The treatment in this country, unfortunately, is based on the money you have. The funding for mentally ill has been drastically cut, and millions of people suffer because of that. I believe in my sister's abilities, but because of her indecisiveness and her lack of insurance or m0ney, I don't know how well she can move forward with any progress. Loving and letting go is the single most hardest thing I have ever done and when I do try to be suppportive, it is never the right way, or how she needs it. I don't want to lose her and I don't want to be a martyr. I just want her to be OK.
What if I let her go and she dies.. how do I live with that Joe?
You are being open and honest and I do need that. As difficult as it is, I know you are right. You have always been so good to me. You are a loving and gentle soul and I thank you for opening my eyes. Sometimes the truth is so hard to see.. thank you my friend.

[JoeCanada76]

The thing I was trying to say to you Shattered is that you can not stop anybody from taking negative actions. The thing is shattered, If somebody makes that decision to end their life. There is nothing you can do to stop it. The more you try to intervene the more somebody retreats into their own world, right. You have done your part. You have told her that you love her and that you will be an emotional support when she needs it. Now it is up to her to come to you. Right?

My fathers uncle by marriage. There was no stopping him from doing what he was going to do. Although his family felt so guilty they were passing the buck and putting the blame on the person that found him and his family. In tragedy like that many people want to eighter blame themselves or other people but the truth and only truth is that it had nothing to do with the family or people around except for the individual that felt that was the only solution. I know it may be hard but the only way is to let go. Another thing I wanted to add, is that I think it is best that she has her child, the two year old. If you want to take care of him to help her out, she might feel that she is going to lose that too. In a way, it is beneficial for her to stay close to her child especially considering that is what is keeping her going. Right? If she suggests for you to help take care of him then that is okay especially if what she is doing is seeking help. Oh this is so hard and my heart is aching for what your family is going through.. Just know there is always going to be support for everybody involved. Question is, is she seeing somebody to talk to, like a counselor? Your mother is, but I think it might be important that everybody is able to see one. The whole family or individually?

[shatteredsoul]

I am crying right now... because I know.. you are right.. I just feel f@cking helpless. I can help a million people on this site and get a thousand greenies but I can't help my own f@cking sister! It just sucks... it sucks big time.
Being with her child is probably the only thing that helps. So, I will let go...

[JoeCanada76]

Your helping her out right now. Love is the greatest gift. Compassion. Loving her and showing her your understanding is helping her. Give yourself credit. Please understand that you should not be feeling helpless at all but full of love and understanding that knowing, that the best way to show somebody you care is by being emotionally supportive. That's it.

[shatteredsoul]

Why is it easier to give love and support to a complete stranger, than to someone I have known my whole life? Why??

[JoeCanada76]

There are no strangers, my belief is every body that we meet and everybody that we know. Whether on the internet, phone, messenger, or in person. It is because we have always known each other. Complete strangers, not so. Maybe you feel that way but I do not see it that way.

[shatteredsoul]

I don't mean you JOe. I mean me giving advice to people I have never seen, talked to or met before. IT is easier for me to know how to help them, what to say and be supportive than I can for my own family. Maybe because we are all connected but I mean, I am connected to my sister and she couldn't be anymore alienated from me than she is right now..

[METERRE]

I am going to try and say the way I feel, which may or may not be how your sister feels... in an attempt to help you understand at least some of her emotions and needs.
Well you guys all know the symptoms of depression right... the helplessness, the thoughts of suicide and worthlessness. All the crying one has to do, and loss of interest and withdrawal from normal things. And then of course there's physical symptoms which include but not limited to, lack of energy, stress, fatigue perhaps... and so on. That and more is exactly what I've been struggling with for years now. The difference lies in what caused her depression and what caused mine. I know for a fact that mine was caused by emotional and psychological issues as well as nutrition and imbalances in my body. I've never gone to a specialist but one knows when something is wrong with them, of course after they acknowledge it.
I know I have some POSSIBLE(cannot diagnose myself) mental issues maybe behavioral. Which MIGHT include OCD, social phobia and/or social anxiety, perhaps. Very low self esteem. Something called selective mutism, if it may be associated with social phobia or I don't know. Maybe birth trauma.
Well I just listed those things because I found that I have at least one or more symptoms of each. Not saying I have all of those though.
Ok so I know some factors which may have influenced me coming up with any psychological problems. As a start, as a baby I was badly mistreated by my dad, and some by my sister. I was born into a sort of hostile environment... my dad hit my mom even when she was pregnant with me, then I was born through surgery. At an early age I used to see my mom and dad fighting a lot, and him hitting her. My sister wasn't a very loving sister towards me either. Then I was 5 or 6 when they broke up and separated, and we left to a very different environment, difficult for me to adjust... especially when little just months after that, my mom left with another man. Then came back for us, and we had to live with him... basically in a van, just parked it somewhere and that was our home. Constantly we would move from one place to another rent here, then move and rent there. Changed schools a few times. At school I never said a word, ever, that's why I suspect I suffered with Selective Mutism. Then that man sexually molested me for a period of 3-4 years. At the same time one of my close relatives was doing the same to me.
All those experiences I think really messed the way I would and still do look at the world around me. I feel angry sometimes, desperate, worthless, a burden on everyone, didn't let me develop neither mentally nor physically how I was supposed to. I cannot trust anyone or have a very hard time trusting people even close family. I retract from society and from family because I know they don't understand me... or feel they judge me and have fear all the time about how other people will see me and treat me. Tons of insecurity of myself and everything else. Not really too able to make decisions or wasn't able to (until barely this year I began to feel more free)because of the deep insecurity. I feel like I always do everything wrong and make everyone suffer, or do wrong also. Did pretty bad in my high school years due to depression, could not concentrate or think straight. And still have a little trouble but it's been better.
Now... what I wish my family would do is not to overly nurture me or just feel sorry for me. Yes I do need them to actually acknowledge that I have suffered and they didn't know it. That instead they made it worse by not even trying to find out more about what was going on with me. What I don't need them to do is to keep making me more dependent on them, but I do wish they could at least support. In fact, for a long time even as a kid I felt the need to just have a chance to be completely independent of anyone. I would like to start a new life being independent yet to do that I need someone to help me become independent because I didn't really learn that well. I do not want them to judge me, nor to feel disgust or sorrow nor to look at me as inferior. I need them to make me feel that I am worth it, that it wasn't my fault, that I can still become what I want to become. So the reason I withdraw from them is because they don't understand how everything messed up my mind, and maybe they just want me to get over it already, and of course because I've always felt better being alone or away from people. You know I still don't even understand myself yet as good as I wish but I have been coming to understand little by little. I just remembered something... maybe some mental illnesses are hereditary or something... I know my dad had some mental illness. I don't know which one/s or anything. And my mom seems sometimes that she's very insecure and perhaps has social phobia too... maybe just a little social anxiety.
The thing is... I'm not saying that anything that happened to me happened to your sister... maybe nothing that I mentioned above happened to her... but I just wanted to show how someone with psychological problems has suffered. And the emotions that arise in times of confusion and difficulty. I don't know if any of this can help you understand your sister, but it will probably be helpful for someone else that has gone through something similar to me.