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KMC6296 · Oct 9, 2007, 11:46 AM

Last month my husband and I were involved in an auto accident. We were following a car who at the LAST minute tried to move into the lane to our left which was the left hand turn lane. Because she did this so late, she was not able to get all of the way into the turn lane and was therefore across both lanes. She was unable to make the left turn because of on-coming traffic and had to stop abruptly, blocking both lanes. My husband was able to stop with just inches to spare, but we were rear ended.

The problem we are having is that 2 witnesses who were in a parking lot across the street, but directly in front of the car in front of us are claiming that there is a possibility that we hit the car in front of us. We did not. However, the insurance company is using this as an opening to pon us with 50% of the fault and not reimburse all of our expenses. The maddening thing is that both we and the kid who rear-ended us have the same insurance carrier. Because we are seeking reimbursement from his policy and no one is seeking from us, we have no claims adjuster helping us muddle through this. The only person who seems to want to talk to us is this boys (rude, nasty) adjuster.

We feel helpless and don't know if we should contact a lawyer? Do we even have a case to file? Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!

ac101 · Oct 9, 2007, 11:52 AM

I do not have any legal experience to speak of however from what you have described I think if the insurance company wants to place half the blame on you I would at least try to get a consult with a lawyer some may even offer a free initial consult just ask around and try to find a reputable one. Anyway hope this helps and GOOD LUCK.

KMC6296 · Oct 9, 2007, 11:55 AM

Thanks ac101. It's all just SO frustrating. :)

ac101 · Oct 9, 2007, 11:58 AM

Yes it is especially when you really had no control over it just iut of curiosity were you ticketed for the accident. Was the driver that rearended you. IF so what were the charges.

ScottGem · Oct 9, 2007, 12:14 PM

You have NO front end damage? Did you report the accident or just the kid who hit you?

I would ask to speak to a supervisor. And explain, clamly, to the supervisor that you have no front end damage, therefore the eye witnesses could not have seen something that did not happen because there was no damage. Also point out to this person, the car the winesses claim you hit is not filing a claim.

Then you tell him that the only claim being made against YOUR policy is the damage to your car caused by the drvier who hit you. Explain that you are aware that in a rear end collision, the driver in the read is almost always considered to be at fault. Explain further that since you WERE able to stop in time without hitting the car in front of you, then, had the car following you been maintaining a safe distance, he should have been able to stop in time as well.

Given the above facts, there should be no question of fault here. Plus the fact that both drivers are insured by the same company, just pay to fix my car and that will be it. However, if you do not, you will force me to obtain legal counsel which you will wind up paying for as well.

KMC6296 · Oct 9, 2007, 12:32 PM

We do have front end damage. Since the car in fron of us was stopped and we were stopped, when we were hit from the rear (approx 30 mph), we were sandwiched into the car in fron of us. When my husband and the boy behind us went to talk to the lady in the 1st car, she said she did nothing wrong and jumped back in her car and took off. The body shop is estimating that we were hit at approx 30 - 35 mph. We have $ 9,000 damage and there is damage to the frame. I have talked with several people at the insurance company and expained that the witnesses did see the woman leave the scene and she caused the chain reaction. They have been asked by the adjuster - if they had to say one way or the other could we have hit the car 1st - there answer has been yes, it's possible. My complaint is that sure, anything isa possible. To find us 50% responsible for an accident, shouldn't they be basing heir decision on something more substantial? I asked why the witnesses were not asked if it was possible that we were stopped and did not hit the 1st car. It seems very skewed to just ask the question from one parties point of view. Asking the question in a different manner could make a big difference. And here is where we have the problem.

ac101 · Oct 9, 2007, 12:39 PM

What about the woman that caused the whole thing is anyone interested in who she is.

KMC6296 · Oct 9, 2007, 12:44 PM

The police came out and took all of our information. My husband and the boy were able to get her license plate # and make and model of her car. Because my daughter was hit hard enough that she bruised instantly, the police are calling it felony hit and run. The woman was driving an out of state vehicle, so they have little information. Ultimately, the insurance is telling us that even though she made a poor decision, we and the car behind us should have been driving at a safe enough distance to be able to react. Which we were.

ScottGem · Oct 9, 2007, 05:07 PM

Ahh, I forgot that you were pushed into her. Ok, so there is no way to prove that you didn't hit her. So what does your insurance want from you? Regardless of whose fault, they should pay everything but your deductible.

KMC6296 · Oct 10, 2007, 09:40 AM

Well... They want us to assume 50% of the fault. Pay our own medical expenses and the deductible. Not a huge deal or outrageous amount. What I'm afraid of and can't get an answer from our insurance company is whether our insurance premiums will increase and what we may be responsible for in the future. If we admit to hitting the 1st car, would we potentially be responsible for the 1st cars repairs and her injuries? What about the car who rear ended us? Could we be responsible for any of his repairs or injuries?

ScottGem · Oct 10, 2007, 10:01 AM

First you don't accept that you were at fault. You can accept your insurance company's offer without admitting that you were at fault, or you fight it.

If they are going to raise your rates, they will do so whether they believe you are at fault or not.

You definitely would be responsible for the car that rear ended you, but you might be held responsible for the other car if you admit fault.

JudyKayTee · Oct 14, 2007, 08:58 AM

When you are rear ended and pushed into the car ahead of you the first car receives one impact; when you hit the car ahead of you and then you are rear ended and pushed (again) into the first car, the first car receives two impacts. (I'm an accident investigator.)
Your insurance company should take a statement from the driver in front of you. On the street witnesses are sometimes not terribly reliable and tend to "remember" what other people have said or suggested.

s_cianci · Oct 14, 2007, 12:25 PM

You may want to consider having a lawyer write the insurance company a letter. This should be a cut-and-dry case. The fact that there is a "possibility that you hit the car in front of you" is totally irrelevant. If you in fact did, then that driver should be filing his/her own claim. The fact remains that you are entitled to whatever damages you've accrued as a result of this person hitting you from behind.

JudyKayTee · Oct 15, 2007, 10:32 AM

I don't know which State everyone is in and can only address NYS but in NYS this is definitely not a “cut and dry” (cut and dried) matter nor is the “possibility” that the first car in line was struck irrelevant.

The insurance company is looking at paying 50% so KMC must be in a comparative negligence State. If KMC was able to stop (with working brake lights) and then was struck in the rear and pushed into vehicle number one (unless KMC spiked the brakes for an unknown reason and this most definitely does not appear to be the case) there is little or no liability on the part of KMC; if, however, KMC struck vehicle number one and then was struck by vehicle number three (KMC being the center vehicle, vehicle number two) vehicle number three is presumed to have little opportunity to avoid the accident, the brakes not having been applied early enough to warn vehicle number three and KMC has much more responsibility for the accident.

You also have little or no control over what your insurance company does; they are entitled to settle with or without your consent. Yes, following settlement you can take them to Small Claims Court for whatever you think they owe you but they are going to come well armed with investigative reports, possibly recorded statements (including your own) of the other parties and witnesses and an Attorney who does this for a living.

And you can also tell the Supervisor that you are going to obtain legal counsel and the company will end up paying for “that” as well - but that simply is not true.

I don't understand the question about admitting hitting vehicle number one - if you have front end damage it would seem rather obvious to me that you did hit the vehicle in front of you, whether you were pushed into it or just drove into it. And that's what the insurance company should be investigating.

If you are going to make a claim for personal injury your Attorney should arrange a very thorough investigation and these will be the issues.

(I have no great love for insurance companies; I work for a law firm; this is how in my experience it works.)

KMC6296 · Oct 15, 2007, 10:38 AM

Thanks for all of the responses! My husband just spoke with the insurance company this morning. I guess because I had called and made a fuss, the supervisor review our information. Now they are going to find us 0% at fault for the collision. Apparently, the medical adjuster was not truthfull. The 2nd witness said she was not sure what happened and couldn't say that we did or did not hit the front car. Based on this, they said they had to find us 0% for the collision. Now... I guess the medical portion is completely separate. My husband was told that the 1st witness said that the front car moved left across all lanes. Not true. She was directly in front of us and tried to dart into the lane to our left. I haven't called to bicker with this injury adjuster yet. I'm wondering if I should wait for the police report. Me, my husband and the kid who rear ended us all told the officer that all 3 cars were in the same lane. Would I have a better leg to stand on if I had the police report? Is there a window during which we are required to settle the claim?

ScottGem · Oct 15, 2007, 10:43 AM

Wait for the police report definitely. That will be an official document that will be the basis for further action. There is not timelimit other than what the insurer imposes.

JudyKayTee · Oct 15, 2007, 11:29 AM

I believe you said the accident was a month ago - don't wait for the insurance company to forward it to you; pick up a copy. Keep in mind that the Police did not witness the accident and their report is based on who was interviewed and who they (the Police) believed. If the Police Report goes against you, that does not make yours a losing fight.

I see Police Reports pretty much ignored (except for the very basic facts) all the time. Also the Police are law enforcement officers, not accident investigators and they don't look at the accident scene/facts with the same eye as an investigator.

KMC6296 · Oct 15, 2007, 11:51 AM

When I called the police department, they said I could only request the report through the mail and right now they are 6 to 12 weekd behind. Can I go into the police department and request a copy?

JudyKayTee · Oct 15, 2007, 12:29 PM

I pick Reports up all the time - I do need a signed authorization from the client because I am not a party to the accident. Sometimes the Report does not have the final approval of the supervising Officer and I only receive a “draft” copy but without the Report I often don't have the name of the other party or the names of witnesses. Wonder if your insurance company has the Report in either form - draft or final? They must have something if they have the names of witnesses, unless the witnesses handed their info to the other party. The Accident Report becomes important if there are personal injuries because you want the matter investigated as soon as possible while everyone's memory is fresh. I appreciate the Police Department often gets behind but that seems like a long time to wait. I will say that very often the State Police are very far behind. If you just show up you and expect the Report you probably can't get it; if you go there and ask for info you might get a copy of the draft.

KMC6296 · Oct 15, 2007, 12:39 PM

Thanks so omuch for your help. My accident happened in LA. The insurance company said they requested a copy on 9/24 and have not received it. When I called and asked if the report had been filed I was told that they didn't know and to send the request in writing. This has all been so confusing and stressful. My daughter, husband and myself went to our doctor just to make sure we were OK. I have talked to the doctor's office and between the 3 of us, we have less than $ 800.00 in medical expenses. The injury adjuster wants us to settle with 50% fault and pay 50% of the expenses. Not a lot out of our pocket, but by admitting to 50% fault, are we admitting guilt and potentially leaving ourselves open for more costs, headache, trouble down the road?