[happy0506]

I have a 2 year old Boxer. She is a fantastic dog. However, I am concerned that she is underweight. From the day we got her, she has not been food motivated. Initially, I tried the feed her 3 times a day and only leave it out for 15 minutes. The theory goes that they will learn that the food will go away if they don't eat now. She never learned that and simply never ate. So now, I leave food out for her all the time. She eats, but I don't think enough, 'cause she's so skinny. I know Boxers are supposed to show some of their ribs, but not all of them. Side by side with a healthy Boxer, you can see she is too skinny.

She sees the vet twice a year, he hasn't found any worms or health issues. She also gets Hearguard every month.

Other than the fact she is not food motivated, the other side of the problem is that she is extremely active. During the week, while my wife and I are at work, we drop her off at "doggy daycare" where she plays all day. Then when I pick her up and take her home, she is still ready to go, so I'll play Frisbee with her. Boxers are a very active breed, so I believe it important to exercise her a lot. I just think that her activity level is a little to high in relation to her food intake.

So, is there a safe way to add more fat and calories to her food to get her to gain a little weight? I know I could just feed her Big Macs for a month, but that is obviously not health. She weighs 40 pounds, and I think a good healthy weight for her would be around 50.

Any help is appreciated.

Thx,
Dan

[labman]

What does your vet say about her weight? I would think if he was concerned, he would be suggesting something, perhaps one of the Science Diet prescription formulas.

If you are feeding one of the meat based concentrated chows, I would be inclined to say leave well enough alone. If you insist on fattening her up, you might try the small breed puppy chow version of what you are feeding. They are the most calorie dense of anything readily available and still providing all the other nutrients a dog needs. Best to switch around on chows as little as possible.

[RubyPitbull]

I don't like the idea of giving her people food or switching up on chows too often either. As labman suggests, the best person to speak with about this is your vet. You might want to just give the vet a call and speak to him/her about the puppy chow, or a "working dog" chow. If she is constantly on the go, a working dog chow might be what she requires to keep the weight on.

[labman]

Yeah, I forgot about the working dog chows.

[happy0506]

Thanks for the replies. I decided to take her into the vet today to make sure that I'm not being neurotic about her weight. Previously, the vet had been telling me that she was a puppy, so she was still growing and her being a little on the thin side was no problem. She's two now, so she should have filled out a little more. I don't know if it a standardized measuring system, but the vet said that on a scale of 1-5, she's a 2. ideal weight is 2.5 to 3.5. so, she is slightly underweight, but nothing serious. The vet did not recommend changing her dog food. She gets Royal Cane for Boxers by the way. The vet recommended that I give her a couple of eggs or some oatmeal. The oatmeal should be plain, with no flavoring, so she's not getting too much sugar. Basically, she's a little petite, but for the most part fine and I don't need to do anything drastic. A little supplimenting her diet with eggs or oatmeal is OK.

I'm glad I went to see the vet because I've been reading online that peanut butter and cheese are good to give to dogs. The vet says it's OK once in a while, but not to give it to her regularly 'cause it could lead to pancreatitus (sp?). The vet says that eggs and plain oatmeal are OK to give her regularly in small amounts, just don't go overboard and let her get overweight. Obviously.

I know my situation is quite unique, most dogs would prefer to eat too much. Where as mine eats just a little under what she ideally should. But for the purposes of sharing good information, peanut butter and cheese are not good to give to your dog on a regular basis. Plain oatmeal and eggs are OK in moderation.

Thanks!
Dan

Ps: for boxer owners, be careful about switching your dog's food brand as it could lead to a very, very, very gassy dog. I'm very glad the vet said that I didn't need to switch my dog's food! It took us four different brands until this one got it under control.

Pss: I'm glad I found this board, most of the ones on the internet are filled with people that don't know what they are talking about and give bad advice. Your answers were all very intelligent. I'm going to have to bookmark this site.

[RubyPitbull]

Happy, pancreatitis is very common in dogs if they are being fed a regular diet of rich people foods. Both labman & I agree that the less people food the better. I am not disagreeing with your vet (I do agree peanut butter & cheese should be very limited -- they are very rich - I have actually stopped the cheese which I used to use in limited quantities for training), you should call him/her and get a guideline on exactly how much and how many times a week you should be supplementing your dog's food with the egg & oatmeal. I can't see that it would be safe to do more than once a week. And yes, switching up foods causes gastric upset if not done right. The switch needs to be over a one week period, mixing the old with the new, and at each feeding reducing the old a bit and adding a bit more of the new food, until the dog is completely on the new food at the end of a week. That avoids all the bloating and gastric upset. Royal Canine for Boxers should be as good as any other chow. Both labman & I were thinking of a chow that was a bit more denser in calories so that you don't have to supplement her diet with any human foods. So, you may want to call the vet and ask about just adding a bit of working chow or puppy chow to her regular chow. That might resolve the problem easier & more quick, rather than adding the sporadic egg & oatmeal to her diet. A follow up phone call to the vet won't cost you anything. In the end, no matter what you find on the internet, always follow your vets advice.

[happy0506]

Ruby,

1. what is a "working dog" chow? A boxer is a working dog, so aren't I already giving her a "working dog" chow?

2. just because a food isn't in a bag that that says dog food doesn't mean that it is bad for dogs. If the vet says that eggs and yogurt (I don't know why I had a brain fart yesterday and substituted oatmeal for yogurt, but yogurt is what the vet recommended) are OK and not too high in calories and fat; then why would it be bad for her? Before us people, dogs had to eat a non chow food of some sort. Maybe eggs were one of those foods.

3. I was referring to the gas situation as a specific issue for boxers. All boxers have gas issues, some more than others. I know how to switch dog foods, I just didn't want to do it if at all possible. My dog can clear a room and curl your hair if she doesn't agree with the food you give her. The dog food she's on now agrees with her stomach, we've tried eukanuba, nutramax, billjack, and iams - they don't agree with her at all.

[labman]

There are chows formulated with the extra calories more active, working dogs need. Royal Canin may even have one. I see all the specialty dog chows as mostly marketing hype, but this could be case where one fills a real need.

Eggs and yogurt do not make the complete and balanced diet dogs need. I would be a little leery of a vet that suggests feeding them to a dog. Watch what she eats very carefully. If she stops eating her dog chow because of better things being available, you have a problem.

By the way, if the vet is suggesting raw eggs, find one more in line with the rest of the profession.

[RubyPitbull]

Happy, I know Royal Canin's food for boxers is specifically formulated for them. I don't use it so I don't know offhand the ingredients or caloric content. But an active boxer of today, is different from a true working dog. Labman describes the food well. And, it is made, for example, for a dog that is herding cattle all day. They really need to take in many more calories than our active dogs.

Yes, boxers are very gassy. So are pitbulls & bulldog breeds. They all have a tendency towards stomach bloat. When you first posted regarding gas, you were not specific about what you did in feeding your dog & switching up chows and it left me thinking that you had this problem due to the switching off. Feeding a new chow in that manner does alleviate the problems. I agree that these breeds of dogs can be a poofter nightmare at times but if your dog is only ingesting the Royal Canin, and has been on it for a while, this problem should be at a minimum. Is it possible she is getting treats during the day at the day care facility? I would find out. I know for my dog, there is a very limited amount of dog treats that I have found, that won't create this problem. Also, please keep in mind, that adding regular human foods, will increase this problem. I have found that the less things added to the dog's diet, the less gas issues. If you have never fed your dog a cooked egg, you have something to look forward to later.

I am glad that you remembered the yogurt suggestion rather than the oatmeal. I didn't want to contradict your vet, but I have never met a vet that suggested oatmeal before as a way of supplementing calories. Labman is right about the dog getting used to other foods besides the chow and possibly turning off to her chow. Chows are formulated to give them the right balance of minerals, vitamins & nutrients. Yes, years ago dogs only choice was people food, but now we have food that is formulated for them and they live longer and healthier lives, along with keeping most of their teeth, as a result. Since it took you so long to find the correct food for your dog, you don't want her to go off her chow even more than she is doing now. It might very well be that, even though the Royal Canin is the first one that doesn't create such a gassy situation, she may not like it. My rescue has chronic digestion issues due to a very poor start in life. It took me going through at least a half dozen chows prior to finding one that she likes to eat, and gives her nice firm stools.

I also agree with labman on the raw eggs point. I am not a huge proponent of yogurt either but I do know vets will suggest both in extreme moderation, for dogs that have digestive issues. Pumpkin is another item they will suggest. I have found all of these things irritate my dog's system and don't really help. But, my dog has a different issue than yours. She doesn't have a problem maintaining her weight. For your dog, I was thinking that if you have found the right food for her, an additional half cup of a working dog chow mixed in with her regular food should solve the issue nicely and easily, without going through all trial & errors that can happen when you introduce human foods.

[labman]

One point, pumpkin is used to fill up dieting dogs without adding calories, or to prevent stool eating, not what your dog needs.

[RubyPitbull]

True labman. Sorry, I should have pointed that out. It's also suggested for its fiber content to create firmer stools.

I have been having a very difficult time accessing this thread since it was first posted. Not sure why, but every time I try to pull it up, I get thrown off the site. Due to my limited time this week, I am sorry, but this will be my last post on this particular question. Happy, I am sure labman will be able to respond to any follow ups you may have.

[happy0506]

labman, I was of the belief that the "specialty" dog foods were pretty much marketing baloney. That is why the royal canin was my fifth choice for my dog. However, it did work, so it is what I've stuck with. Maybe it really is made just for boxers, maybe I just got lucky.

Here are the specs on the royal canin for boxers food:

4135 kilocalories per cup
Crude Protein 26.0%
Crude Fat 20.0%
Crude Fiber 2.0%
Moisture 9.0%
Glucosamine Hydrochloride* 780 mg/kg
Chondroitin Sulfate * 220 mg/kg
L-Carnitine* 800 mg/kg
Taurine* 0.26%


As I look around at the puppy foods, here is what I've found on their respective websites:


Eukanuba small breed puppy: protein - 28% -- fat - 45% -- 502.52 kcal/cup

Eukanuba medium breed puppy: protein - 27% -- fat - 41% -- 462.9 kcal/cup

Nutro natural choice puppy: protein - 26% -- fat - 12% -- 333 kcal/cup

Pro plan puppy food (chicken & rice or lamb & rice): protein - 28% -- fat 18% -- 3884 kcal/cup



OK, so I cannot make heads or tails from this. The royal canin has the most calories per cup, but some of the puppy foods are much higher in fat. Some are not. I would have assumed that the two numbers would have been proportional in relation to each other. How can you have so much fat and be so low in calories? Which is more important for a high energy dog to have? Am I looking at the right info?

Also, I've been searching on Google for "working dog" food / chow and can't find anything. Do you know of a specific brand that makes one?

For the sake of clarity, I wasn't going to replace the dog's food with eggs and yogurt, my intent was to give it to her in addition. Of course, you have to watch out that she doesn't stop eating the regular dog food. If I were to give her puppy food or a "working dog" food, what is the stat I'm interested in? Fat - calories - something else?

Thanks,
Dan

[Boxerlady]

I work a Global Pet foods, where our nnumber one purpose is to educate owners on what ois best for their pets and educate them on nutrition, and I have to say what you are feeding your dog is not the best of the best. I have a boxer myself and I have the same problem. She is underweight but most American boxers are, where as the European Boxers have a hefty weight to them their heads are bigger they have more bulk where as an american boxer is leaner and skinner more chisled. The main reason on why she isn't gaining weight like you would like her too without the eggs and oatmeal is because first of all she may not like the food hence she doesn't it eagerly, and secondly her body is not gaining the nutrients she needs from her dog food. You need to help her be able to digest the food better by adding probiotics and enzymes to help her body gain the very best from her food and Royal Canine isn't all that great. A lot of people think because they make a line for every single breed of dog out there that it's the best but its really not it doesn't have the ingredients a dog necessarily needs. If you asked me what you should feed you dog? Or what is the very best you could feed you dog I would answer and say RAW!! Or if that gets to be too expensive then a kibble with a kibble booster. And I highly recommend giving variety because they like taste too.. what if you ate the same thing every day for the rest of your life, dry kibble with the same ingredients everyday. Dogs used to life in the wild they killed things to get their food and by giving them a dry kibble you are domesticating them even more then they already are. For people who are willing to spend anything on their animals should feed Raw, There is a brand by the name of Natures Variety "Taste of Raw" which is a more convenient way to feed raw without all the cooking and mixing its all ready to go just defrost and serve. Or for people who don't have all that much money to spend feed a nutritional dry kibble with a kibble booster and a bit of wet canned food to get the moisture, and add bits of human food like apples and cheese and such. You have to remember that the dry kibble is a processed food which is cooked at a very high temperature which means the majority of the food is killed all the nutrients are gone.:eek: anyway that's my piece look it up for yourself or come see us in alliston ont. Global Pet foods

[Boxerlady]

And pro plan, eukanuba, nutro all crap foods my store wouldn't even carry it

[starbuck8]

This question is almost a yr and a half old. I'm sorry, but I do have to disagree with some points that were made here. Do not change up the diet of the dog. Find one that is a high quality brand with no filler, and stick with it. If you continue to change their food, it can lead to intestinal and stomach problems. Dogs don't need to have a change in their diet. They can have digestive problems if you give them variety.

The problem is, they are NOT wild dogs anymore. They are domesticated. You can't domesticate them more than they already are. A wild dog, is a wild dog! A domesticated dog, is a domesticated dog! There is a big difference between the two.

Apples, cheese, and things like that are to be used as treats. They should not be mixed in with their kibble. Not all kibble is processed in these high heat temps. so that the nutrients are not in them. This is mostly true of low end food that is filled with fillers and preservative. Quite often these low end (cheap) foods also contain things like... road kill, (sometimes from diseased animals) crushed animal bones, brains, intestines, cartilage, blood, hair, and other body parts. Organic foods are best, but often expensive. There are a lot of companies making then now, so the prices are going down. Just make sure you read the labels to make sure of the ingredients and nutritional value. Also do research on HOW to read your labels, just as you would with your own food.

If the dog is not eating his food but is otherwise healthy, then a moist food with a gravy base can be added with kibble. Or boiled chicken breasts, fresh liver, fresh raw beef, and a fortified brown rice can be mixed in with the kibble to entice the dog. Even a plain beef or chicken stock added to kibble, can be more appealing to you dog.

Above all, do your research to see what's best for your pet, and keep an eye on his health and eating habits.