[CaptainRich]

I would like to hear from anyone interested in acknowledging the myth regarding global warming.

Before you start throwing rocks and calling me names, I wish to point out that I'm not endorsing the way mankind is treating our planet, the only planet that we know of that can sustain us. I understand those issues and I also realize we cannot turn back the hands of time. My goal is to divert our focus from the "Chicken Little" attitude that has nothing constructive to offer, to a more lucid approach to what really can or should be done. Or if anything really should be done...

We've dabbled in solar technology. But haven't engineered a suitable storage device to meet the various need of the masses. Yet.

Water doesn't burn, as many would like to believe. It takes too much energy to just get it ready! YouTube - Saltwater Burns - John Kanzius

He-3 technology? Maybe some day... More research will cost billions and is perhaps decades away.

This link is from the US National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration. It covers some enlightening information regarding what many have declared to be a global catastrophe. Like how the placement of temperature sensors has been over-run by "urban islands."

Many of those who call alarm to this myth, have ulterior motives.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/ggw/newslett...change%20I.pdf

And, one that the title of which really caught my eye:

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?c Warming: A Convenient Lie[/url]


In here I read that there's evidence of global climatic changes on Pluto, and we've never even been there!

I grew up in Alaska, many many years ago. I remember sitting at home and the last time I looked across Katchemak Bay, there were glaciers (un-named at the time and probably still), I watched in awe as the glacier calved huge bergs. It was awesome.

That many year ago, you and me and he weren't declared carbon consumers. No one cried about global warming or carbon footprints.

But in my few years watching these local glaciers, it struck me: this isn't something new.
There is plenty of evidence that says these glaciers, like others around the world, have been at work for a long time... Over hundreds of millions of years.
We live on an evolving planet. The planet has it's own issues to deal with. I wonder if anyone here has read the study that shows how much planet has gone through "global warming" by man's influence, as opposed to how much is altered by natural forces, be it what it may. Tectonic plates? Pangaea?


Somewhere along the way, I read that in the early 1900's, during the birth of the automobile, there were actually more electric car manufacturers at the time when Henry Ford picked a car-line that happened to be an internal combustion model, and the rest... they say, is history...

How did we get to be so easily misdirected? Can we recycle against that?

Thing's that make you go : "Hmm..."

[ScottGem]

I recommend Micahel Crichton's State of Fear

[NeedKarma]

I see no point in arguing with people whose minds are already made up.

[CaptainRich]

From Michael Crichton's official website:

MichaelCrichton.com | This Essay Breaks the Law

NK, I'm not wanting to argue, but to discuss. Do you think I've missed something critical?
You seem to have your mind made up...

[firmbeliever]

Earth is an ageing planet, the Sun is ageing, so is the universe...
Do we expect it to remain the same forever..

[michealb]

Global warming science has become so pulluted over the years, that even keeping an open mind and reading a lot of research from all sides. I'm not sure what to think. So I've decided to come up with my own line of thinking independent of the science based on things I know to be true (holy crap I almost sound like a fundy)

1. Oil and coal are finite resources. Although we don't know when they will run out I'd still rather have a large research budget given out to make the move to something that isn't finite. The idea that US could have lots of cheap energy for sale sounds like a good idea for the US to me also.
2. More cheaper energy means a better standard of living for everyone.
3. Oil and coal are dirty. Even if you are undecided on if we are making the planet warmer, the sky over San francisco is nasty and we did that. So lets pull together and spend a few dollars per person on research to make a clean renewable fuel.
4. With enough energy almost any problem facing the human race can be solved. Need food we can have green houses 20 stories high growing food all winter long. Need water we can turn ocean water into clean drinkable water. Need heat we can make it a comfy 72 degrees in the coldest of places.

You may say I'm an idealist and we could spend billions and never find a cheap renewable resource but I say when has anything that contributed to the sum of human knowledge a waste even if we do find out that it isn't possible anytime soon we will know that we need to ration oil and coal even more than we are now.

[CaptainRich]

Michael, you have some very good points...
1) These are finite resources. Tapping ANWR, for example, isn't the answer, merely a continuation of the same problem... just in U.S. control.
2) As far as I'm concerned, cheaper isn't always better.
3) Both: finite and dirty. Pollution is a problem. Take a look at recent photos of the skyline of China. Research into cleaner alternative is in order.
4) We are very interested in our own comfort without regard for where it stems from.

Contributing to the growing sum of human knowledge by science and idealists will continue. Cleaner products to propel us across the planet and cook our food will help the next generations breath easier...

But while fossil fuels could be eliminated, people will not be. I think we'll all agree that the same science that has taught us about electricity and internal combustion, is also bringing more of us into the world, and keeping us here longer. That won't change with solar housing or electric cars... both of which will need more energy to be produced...

As firmbeliever pointed out, this is an aging planet, who's entire life expectancy has a limit. The more get on to ride, the sooner it will wear out.

I'm not a doom-sayer, but to say we can change our ways in the last eleventh hour of the eleventh day seem a little, well, silly.

[firmbeliever]

Need water we can turn ocean water into clean drinkable water..

Already been done... I drink that stuff!:)
Desalination
Seawater Desalination CHAPTER ONE
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/5017461...tion_Plant.jpg
-------------------------------------

Why So Hot? Don't Blame Man, Blame the Sun
Fighting Fire With Facts

[michealb]

As firmbeliever pointed out, this is an aging planet, who's entire life expectancy has a limit. The more get on to ride, the sooner it will wear out.

I'm not a doom-sayer, but to say we can change our ways in the last eleventh hour of the eleventh day seem a little, well, silly.

I'm not suggesting we change our ways. Just where we get the energy to live our way. Earlier in Bush's career he want to give $10 billion over 5 years towards a hydrogen economy now he is asking for about $150 billion for the war in Iraq. Imagine if he had asked for that money to get us off oil where we might be.

[CaptainRich]

I'm not suggesting we change our ways. Just where we get the energy to live our way. Earlier in Bush's career he want to give $10 billion over 5 years towards a hydrogen economy now he is asking for about $150 billion for the war in Iraq. Imagine if he had asked for that money to get us off oil where we might be.

Mmm... I'd like to get my hands on the books for a year of two..!

[firmbeliever]

We used to dry our clothes out in the sun ages ago.
And we never bothered with sunscreen then,now we never stay on the beach/go swimming without it.
I remember when I was small, almost all the houses had empty ground with trees(climbing them was fun:)).Now each house is an x storey building without even an ounce of empty, open space.

It is a concrete jungle, and we have to have A/C to keep cool.

But I can see a good thing with this Global Warming scare,every house has a few plants on the terraces or balconeys or window ledges.:)

[catgita]

Here are a list of things that make me take pause. Some are from paleoclimatology, but a lot is recorded western history. There are countless other anecdotes, not all of which I have had time to cross check.

The bottom line is simple: the earth is ever changing, and if we humans think we can make things stable and unchanging, we are doomed to disaster. Prevention, if it is possible, still is no substitute for preparedness. Dependence on a single resource or approach is a fools game.

• Measured 1.8 degrees of temperature rise over the last century correlates very well with predicted temperature changes due to higher CO2 levels.
• By the same climate model, if we continue at current levels, temperatures will increase another 5 degrees over 100 years.
• China is industrializing, and their billion plus citizens will soon expect to have cars. They are only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.
• All of our major technologies are based on oil, including energy, materials, transportation, comunication, and food production (firtilizer & pesticides, among others).
• We are 'beginning' to see signs of global warming, such as sea level rise in the order of 2mm per year, which has been going on unchanged for over 150 years.
• The average sea level rose over 200 feet in the period 8000-10000 years ago (there is a sign for you!) and has continued to rise since that time, long before human influence on atmospheric composition.
• This is an interglacial period.
• Relative sea level during interglacial periods usually reaches 3-20 meters higher than it is now.
• Subarctic glaciers usually do disappear completely during interglacial periods.
• Average CO2 levels during interglacial periods is several times what it is now, and there were no humans!
• Average sea level during all of earths observable geologic history is 120 feet higher than now.
• Average difference between low tide and high tide at the time life formed on earth was in the order of 10,000 feet (I know that sounds crazy, but it is lunar history).
• The renaissance occurred the last time the northern hemisphere had average temperatures almost as warm and consistent as now.
• The French revolution and their subsequent assistance to Americas secession was prompted largely due to repeated and unpredictable crop failure brought on by unstable climate conditions over a hundred years.
• The year without a summer.
• A famous painting of George Washington crossing the Delaware, surrounded by pack ice.
• For a period of about 300 years there was a yearly festival in London on the frozen river Themes, which has been impossible for about 200 years, long before significant human impact on atmosphere. This festival also shown in famous paintings.
• The Vikings discovering America, then being forced to abandon their colonies due to global cooling and resulting loss of resources.
• Indications of past tropical conditions in polar regions, and frozen seas in equatorial regions.
• The dinosaurs died out but frogs and crocodiles survived.

[jackman]

Some sound like my brother.It is just a cycle.Trouble with that answer is HOW LONG OF A CYCLE.

[catgita]

The lesson here is not that things are cyclical, but that they are inherently not stable. Many of the changes I mentioned are not cyclical, predictable, nor long term at all. The little ice age was none of these.

Should we be concerned about glaciers melting back within our lifetime? Sure. That certainly is an indicator of short cycle change. We could drastically change our lifestyle and economy to slow down the change to the degree we are contributing to it, but to what end? To avoid change and repercussions on our economy?

It all sounds a bit like committing suicide because you are afraid of dying. Either way, you are going to die eventually anyway.

And what if we make these adjustments and the climate changes anyway, or goes the opposite way we expected for any number of reasons we can't predict?

It seems more logical to diversify our interests, try to predict causes and effects both ways, and invest where the risk is best. Let's not build another Venice, move to Denver, make a bigger SUV, nor abandon extremely cheap and plentiful resources prematurely.