Prophets

SSchultz0956 · Oct 5, 2005, 08:41 AM

I was wondering what people thought about prophets. In the bible it is made known that God revealeth nothing except it be through his servants the prophets. Further, Christ said that he organized his church on prophets, apostles, evangelists, teachers, etc. My question to you is, has God closed the windows of heaven? If not, where are his prophets and apostles? The orginazation of Christ's church had 12 apostles, why do we not see a need for them now? How can God reveal His truth without them? Or are we left alone on this dark earth? Is this not why so many different religions have formed? I just want to know what people think about these questions.

NeedKarma · Oct 5, 2005, 08:45 AM

Perhaps there were no 12 apostles to begin with; that would explain a lot of what you are asking.

SSchultz0956 · Oct 5, 2005, 08:47 AM

They were explicitly named and labeled in the bible.

NeedKarma · Oct 5, 2005, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by SSchultz0956

They were explicitly named and labeled in the bible.

Perhaps the bible is a work of fiction?

SSchultz0956 · Oct 5, 2005, 08:48 AM

Obviously this question is for the less phlisophical. :D

RickJ · Oct 6, 2005, 03:43 AM

There are dozens and dozens of early extant writings outside of the Bible that testify to the names and actions of Christ and his apostles.

Christ founded a Church. A Church, he promised, that the gates of Hell would not prevail against.

He gave his Apostles leadership over the church and they in turn have passed their leadership on - down to today.

So we are not left alone. We still have Him and His Church.

fredg · Oct 6, 2005, 04:27 AM

Hi,
We are not alone and have not been left to ourselves; only those who are not Christians are alone.
The Elders and Deacons are alive and well in the Church of Christ; following the teachings of the 12 Apostles; taught by Jesus Christ.
It's very easy for some posts here to question whether they are "fiction". This questioning comes from non-Christians. The Dead Sea Scrolls and the "boat" found in a mountainous area with all the measurements of the Arc are not acknowledged by non-believers.
The New Testament explains it, with the teachings of the Apostles. Miracles do happen, by the Grace of God, as acknowledged by Professionals who can not explain why things happen.
Best wishes, and may God bless you and keep you safe.
fredg

NeedKarma · Oct 6, 2005, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by fredg

Hi,
We are not alone and have not been left to ourselves; only those who are not Christians are alone.

I'm not alone - I have my family and friends and co-workers and neighbours. Wow, I guess if we aren't part of the group that you are in then we're in the wrong group in your opinion. High school must have been difficult for you.

RickJ · Oct 6, 2005, 04:43 AM

fredg, and anyone else seeing this:
"only those who are not Christians are alone" is not a teaching of the historic Christian Faith or of the Bible.

NeedKarma · Oct 6, 2005, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by rickj

fredg, and anyone else seeing this:
"only those who are not Christians are alone" is not a teaching of the historic Christian Faith or of the Bible.

You earn my respect with every post you make.

SSchultz0956 · Oct 6, 2005, 09:53 AM

Rickj said that there are leaders and there is a church. Question: Which church is it? After the death of an apostle they replaced him. Why haven't the 12 apostles been replaced through the ages if His church is still intact?

Bobbye · Oct 6, 2005, 12:02 PM

"...where are his prophets and apostles?"

"The Twelve" were "Foundational Apostles." Once the Foundation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was laid, there was no need for "foundational apostles." In fact, we will never have another "Twelve" or "foundational apostles." "Other foundations can no man lay than that which is laid" -- which is Christ Jesus!

HOWEVER, the Bible lists some 13-14 additional apostles, who were not of The Twelve. The Apostle Paul was one of them. These apostles were "sent" to preach the Gospel (the foundation that was laid) of Jesus Christ.

An apostle is a "sent one." THUS WE HAVE APOSTLES TODAY! Every minister should be "called" and "sent" by The Holy Spirit!

Where are the apostles today? Most denominational churches do not recognize the office of the Apostle nor the Prophet. However, no where in Scripture do we find authority to remove these two from the Five-fold Ministry, as listed in Ephesians 4:7-16 ("And to some He gave apostles; prophets; evangelists; pastors, and teachers.)

"And to some He gave...." WHAT WAS GIVEN AND TO WHOM GIVEN? The anointed or gifted ones of the Five-fold Ministry were given to the "church" -- the Body of Christ. If a church needs a teacher, God sends a teacher; a pastor, God sends a pastor, etc. However, God has sent apostles and prophets, as well as evangelists, pastors, and teachers, whom the local churches rejected or refused to acknowledge in the ministry. HOWEVER, THE BIBLE IS STILL TRUE!

I know quite a number of ministers who stand in the Office of the Prophet (and they are not the charlatans seen on T.V.).

To stand in the "office" (rather than one who moves only in the Gift of Prophecy) one must be anointed or move in others Gifts as well; e.g. Prophecy; Word of Wisdom; Word of Knowledge; Discerning of Spirits; Tongues, Interpretation of Tongues. The Gifts of Faith, Miracles, and Healings may accompany the Gift just listed, or they may not. The Holy Spirit gives Gifts "severally as He wills."

The Nine Gifts of The Holy Spirit (as listed in I Corinthians 12) are enablements or empowerment to those who operate in the Five-fold Ministry (Ephesians 4:7-16).

Many are gifted with the "Gift of Prophecy" (one of the Nine Gifts of The Holy Spirit) who prophesy only, but do not stand in the Office of the Prophet.

WHERE ARE THE OFFICES OF APOSTLE AND PROPHET TODAY? Outside the door where the "church" has placed them. However, this is contrary to Scripture.

Blessings,

kalo93 · Oct 7, 2005, 12:52 AM

Yo man I don't think your a scammer all I wanted you to do is hack that account I sent you but you isn't replied saying that you have or you isn't hacked it yet :(

RickJ · Oct 7, 2005, 03:06 AM

SSchultz0956, you ask
"Why haven't the 12 apostles been replaced through the ages if His church is still intact?"

They have been replaced through the ages. Hence the term Apostolic.

Unfortunately "Apostolic" has become a word that many churches use - even ones who have rejected the leadership line of all of the Apostles.

"We believe in one Holy, catholic [with a small "c"... meaning "universal"] and apostolic Church" has been proclaimed in our creed for about 1700 years now.

... and we follow the leadership of the Bishop of Rome, whose line of leadership can be followed back to Peter.

Yes, I'm well aware of all of the non and anti-Catholic arguments, but that's not my point here. Here I am only addressing your particular statement.

I wish true Peace and Blessings to all of you.

MaggieB · Oct 7, 2005, 09:00 PM

We are not alone as God is forever available to us. Jesus told us in the Bible that greater things "could we do" and He is not a liar. We have the ability through the Holy Spirit to do what the apostles did. God's word also tells us that we have not because we ask not or ask amiss. When we trust in God and put our complete faith in Him, we can do all things through Him. Amen and Amen.

MaggieB

RickJ · Oct 8, 2005, 09:22 AM

That's a good and accurate summary, MaggieB.
I'll third the motion:
Amen.

Heirborn · Oct 14, 2005, 11:29 AM

I'd like to echo Maggie's post, and also expound on it a bit.

The text we're referring to is John 14:12-14--
12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
13 "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

We must also remember that the word "prophet" does NOT denote only the foretelling of future events, even though that's how it's most commonly used today. God used his prophets as human mouthpieces for His desires, wishes, warnings, and judgements. A prophet is someone who speaks the Word of God, whether that word be for the past, now, or the future. Now, there are some guidelines to follow when evaluating a prophet. Are their words true? In other words, do their words conflict with Scripture? If so, then they are not prophets, since God will not contradict Himself. Do their prophecies come to pass without fail? If not, then they are not "foretelling" prophets.

The "in my name" part also needs some clarification. This phrase does not mean uttering a cursory "in Jesus' name" at the end of a prayer. Rather, this is asking for things that are in accordance with the will of God and praying that the will of God be done. To ask in Jesus' name means to ask to do what HE would do, in accordance with his teachings and commandments. "In my name" is more of a lifestyle than part of a petition.

The prophet is still here today, very much alive and well. So why don't we see them or acknowledge them? In my opinion, the church is so wrapped up in its religion that it's losing its faith. Words like "prophet," "apostle," "healing," "deliverance" and so forth make more than a few people nervous. Those words, and everything they connote, threaten the stability and nice, safe, little warm place that many mainline denominations are in.

fredg · Oct 17, 2005, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I'm not alone - I have my family and friends and co-workers and neighbours. Wow, I guess if we aren't part of the group that you are in then we're in the wrong group in your opinion. High school must have been difficult for you.

The group I am referring to are Christians. If one is a Christian, they are never alone... they always have God.
Family, friends, co-workers and neighbors are always greats, but they cannot replace God.
I don't understand why you consider this as "judgemental". Christianity is word wide, and only Christians can understand... that might be what you meant, but I am not sure. I don't mean any of this to be "judgemental", only God can judge, and eventually, will judge all of us.
fredg
PS, My High School was 45 yrs ago. So what has that got to do with anything? My parents were Christians, too, and I grew up in a christian environment. No, those were not bad years for me and not difficult, with God.

Morganite · Oct 20, 2005, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by SSchultz0956

Rickj said that there are leaders and there is a church. Question: Which church is it? After the death of an apostle they replaced him. Why haven't the 12 apostles been replaced through the ages if His church is still intact?

Paul said that the apostles were the foundation of the church with Christ as the chief cornerstone, a reference to how a building is constructed. Apostles were replaced for a season to maintain the foundation of the church, but eventually they were not. When that happened, the foundation was not there and the church of Christ collapsed.

Mormons under their prophet Smith say the apostles have been brought back to retsore what was lost, and they have a college of apostles just like the church did in the time of Jesus.

The term 'apostolic' does not mean the existence of apostles, but that their teachings were taught by the apostles of Jesus, It is a claim to succession. As the teachings and doctrines of early Christianity developed into avenues at variance with the teachings of Jeuss and his apostles, the claim to be in the line of descent from apostolic doctrine is hard to substantiate.

MORGANITE

:)

RickJ · Oct 20, 2005, 07:57 AM

I beg to differ in your implication that the Apostles and/or their successors were not replaced.

They were.

Most, if not all, of their lines of successorship can be traced to a Bishop of the Church today.

To boot, there are many who claim what Joseph Smith did: Mohammed, David Koresh, Mary Baker Eddy, etc, to name a few.

What makes any one of them believable over any of the others?

Add your answer here.