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GlindaofOz · Sep 24, 2007, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by farfrmnormal

Its funny you say that - the rationally and logically - my therapist has told me I am not in tune with my emotions and see everything as rational - A or B answers. My problem is working with the two together.

This is very obvious from everything you have said so far. When people try to rationalize everything or see only black and white it can be problematic. Like I said falling out of love is not a problem to be fixed. Poor communication is a relationship problem to be fixed not love. People cannot always control their emotions.

Originally Posted by farfrmnormal

Where did you read these studies - I would be interested in reading them.

I think it was in a book I read about the biological differences of men and women in regards to brain patterns. It was called Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps.

farfrmnormal · Sep 24, 2007, 08:21 AM

Its hard not to think rationally even in something like this - for example - could poor communication cause a person to fall out of love? Or the atmosphere you expose yourself cause that? The reason I ask is because he never said he HAS fallen out of love with me - he said he is confused - this is why I suggested he speak to a third party to help him expose his feelings and become in touch with them.

Either way, with things as they are I feel more comfortable knowing I can pick up the phone if I need to - fact is, I don't. I don't feel the need. In fact, he was the one that showed up at my house last night - did not call or tell me he was coming, just showed up.

ConfusedandLost · Sep 24, 2007, 08:21 AM

Glinda is right.

NO ONE can change the mind of an individual when they fall out of love. It all started with them and it has to end with them, decision wise. Love is the single most powerful emotion out there... it can make you feel like your on cloud 9 or drag you right down to the biggest deepest hole out there.

If I was faced with your situation I would cut loose and walk away. Yes it will be the single most hardest thing to do. You just have realize all of the pain and self torture your putting yourself through. Do you really want to convince someone that they are in love with you. Or do you want them to fall in love with you? Your in a dark place right now, you just don't know it... we are trying to shine that light at the end for you to see. You just have to walk towards it slowly day by day one step at a time. It hurts now... but it will get better... believe me I know...

GlindaofOz · Sep 24, 2007, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by farfrmnormal

Its hard not to think rationally even in something like this - for example - could poor communication cause a person to fall out of love? Or the atmosphere you expose yourself cause that? The reason I ask is because he never said he HAS fallen out of love with me - he said he is confused .

First of all - its not that simple. Sometimes its not even something that is going on in the relationship. Emotions change for a myriad of reasons and I've yet to see anyone say "I no longer love my partner because we have poor communication skills". Again you are trying to rationalize something that has no rationalization.

He has said that has fallen out of love with you. What do you think saying he is no longer IN love with you means?

farfrmnormal · Sep 24, 2007, 08:27 AM

He said I don't know if I am In love with you anymore - he did not say I am not in love with you anymore.

I am just going to stop here - because I think I am digging a hole and I might as well jump into it.

ConfusedandLost · Sep 24, 2007, 08:39 AM

"I don't know" and "I am not" are the same in my book. Either way there is no love towards you. Do you really want to fight and stick around for a "maybe". Love knows no boundaries... only if he fought as hard as you are right now is how things would be right. You know your better than that...

farfrmnormal · Sep 24, 2007, 08:40 AM

On a side note - I just bought two of those books. I am going to give him the other one to read. Thanks for your advice all. I think all I can do is take things one day at a time - learn more about me and those around me. I think this book will be a good read for that.

MissingHim2Much · Sep 24, 2007, 06:29 PM

[QUOTE=farfrmnormal]He said I don't know if I am In love with you anymore - he did not say I am not in love with you anymore.

That's basically what my ex said to me and I think it's a load of crap. Either they love you or they don't, this I love you but I don't know if I'm in love with you is BS

LivingtheLifeinFLA · Sep 24, 2007, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by farfrmnormal

Its funny some of what I am being told here totally contradicts what my therapist has been telling me.

You hang out with him and the drama will continue forever.

Your heart hurts more and you need more therapist meetings to discuss it as you hold out hope.

Therapist earns more and more.

I am a man. Only a weak man says what he said. He should have cut the cord but I am sensing he is to weak, plus he can string you along.

I'm sorry for your pain, but I can tell you the next girlfriend that I have had has always been better than the last, because you learn from what happened.

farfrmnormal · Sep 25, 2007, 05:18 AM

My therapist meetings are not to help me cope with the break up - there are underlying issues that I am dealing with to make myself a better person. I can cope with things just well.

I have been reading some books about men and women and NO where in the book does it say that when a man is confused about his feelings for an individual that his feelings can't be straightened out. I have actually been reading more then just one book - one being the Allan Pease "Why Men Don't Listen, and Women can't Read Maps", & Dr. Phil's two relationship books. Dr. Phil and many others actually promote working on your relationships with partners and other individuals. Perhaps this is why 50% of marriages in North America end in divorce - because people just aren't willing to accept their flaws as an individual, not be pig headed and admit that their relationship needs help. But once again, I will probably be refuted. I believe that when two people have a goal of being together in a healthy relationship they can work on it - A few reports I have read state that feelings in a relationship go up and down - for both MEN and WOMEN. Feelings can change based on the atmosphere of your relationship - as Dr. Phil says "If you don't tend the garden you may be over run by weeds". His approach is to exhaust every avenue before you walk away, that way you can feel as if you have done everything you possibly can. K. & I have decided that this is the best way for us to work together on building a healthy relationship - I'm sorry but based on what I have been reading on here everyone says that when a relationship ends its over and to treat it as over, even when feelings change. I personally am going to have to refute that.

Technically, we are back in a relationship together, so when we hang out we are together working on our issues. Issues such as atmosphere (We spent a lot of time with other people and not one on one time), showing one another that we are getting to the bottom of our individual issues such as tone of voice, getting into a personal rut and being motivated. Relationship issues can not be sorted out when you're not together.

From here on out I think I am going to have to remember that yes this may be a "help desk" but not all individuals on here are posting with qualifications & experience doesn't always mean you know the "in's and outs" of every relationship. The basis of relationships are the same, but almost always there is something that sets each one apart.

GlindaofOz · Sep 25, 2007, 05:21 AM

BUT I bet that all of those people still have romantic feelings for each. Your boyfriend does not. You are in severe denial about the state of your relationship. When someone says they are confused about whether they are in love with you they are NOT in love with you. Sorry.

farfrmnormal · Sep 25, 2007, 05:28 AM

Romantic feelings and love are completely different - he told me full out yesterday that he has romantic feelings for me. He said he wants to be in a romantic relationship with me and wants to work through things. I am not in denial - I am basing my response on what I have been told by him. Not all men that say they are confused are asses and are stringing you along.

ConfusedandLost · Sep 25, 2007, 05:37 AM

Yes, we are here to simply help you and possibly the majority of us do not have the qualifications that the authors of your books or your therapist. However keep in mind every situation is different, we are only making suggestions solely based on what we hear from you.

As for the books... I have read over 15 relationship books in the past 3 months. Did they help me? Yes... I was able to understand who I was and the other sex in general. I became stronger with knowledge and this place. In no way did I try to "self diagnose" and apply any of the situations mentioned in the books to my situation... I wanted to learn and grow.

You have to understand that in most cases you have to look deep down inside of yourself... that is where it began and you have to end it there. It amazes me now how people in general go through so much pain and suffering and complain about this and that, but do absolutely nothing to correct it. You and only you have that power to make yourself happy and correct things in YOUR life... it only takes you to realize that your in denial and to move on and experience LIFE!

farfrmnormal · Sep 25, 2007, 05:44 AM

Who are you to tell me I am in denial? You do not know me or the circumstances surrounding my relationship. Yes, it is a relationship because we are working together to fix things.

I have learned A LOT about myself - not just through books, but also through meditation, looking inside myself and seeing what I can handle. The initial break up opened up my eyes and made me have self realization. I have a good job, a great family - I'm attractive, have made and achieved most of my life goals and have done that all on my own. So please don't tell me to look inside myself and see where this is going. First of all I am working on myself - second I am working on my relationships with people in general, third I am working on my romantic relationship. Its not tying me down - I am free to experience life and everyone should have that freedom even when they are in a healthy relationship.

But hey... I am simply stating an opinion just as you are, correct?

smoothy · Sep 25, 2007, 06:38 AM

Its obvious... she wants to sleep with other people but doesn't have the courage to come out and say it.

It basically means lets just be friends, you don't mean enough to me to be more.

Done waste time thinking she will come around, there are other women who will appreciate your company more.

farfrmnormal · Sep 25, 2007, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by smoothy

Its obvious....she wants to sleep with other people but doesn't have the courage to come out and say it.

It basically means lets just be friends, you don't mean enough to me to be more.

Done waste time thinking she will come around, there are other women who will appreciate your company more.

I am guessing you didn't read the entire thread otherwise you would know that I am female

smoothy · Sep 25, 2007, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by farfrmnormal

I am guessing you didn't read the entire thread otherwise you would know that I am female

It applies both ways... to men or women equally. And means the very same thing regardless if it's a man or a woman that says it.

Its usually a cop out to actually saying the relationship is over. Rather than just coming out and saying it. I've been on both ends of that quote more than once and will admit to not having the guts to just out and say what I meant at least once. Figuring it would somehow be easier on her. Lame? Yeah I know it was now.

farfrmnormal · Sep 25, 2007, 10:16 AM

What women say and mean and what men say and mean are different - men and women are VERY different in there ways and in no way can they be considered equal when it comes to expressing their emotions.

With regards to him thinking it is "easier" on me - not the fact in this case. I told him flat out that if he didn't want to work on the relationship to tell me its over - because it doesn't make it easier.

But I can continue to plead my case and no one will side with me - even though many relationship coaches suggest to exhaust all possibilities if both individuals are willing to.

smoothy · Sep 25, 2007, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by farfrmnormal

What women say and mean and what men say and mean are different - men and women are VERY different in there ways and in no way can they be considered equal when it comes to expressing their emotions.

With regards to him thinking it is "easier" on me - not the fact in this case. I told him flat out that if he didn't want to work on the relationship to tell me its over - because it doesn't make it easier.

But I can continue to plead my case and no one will side with me - even though many relationship coaches suggest to exhaust all possibilities if both individuals are willing to.

OH I agree he may feel its easier on you when it isn't. Some guys just don't want to be nasty and unkind to a woman that is obviously smitten with them. Trust me I've been there, woman turned out to be a drunk... not to mention a sexual cold fish. But to go out with her friend I really liked I had to take her out alternate nights as well. Yeah... strange relationship I know.

But the more I had to take her out the more smitten she got and the more she made my skin crawl. Eventually I got rid of both but how could I be rude to a woman that obviously thought I was the best thing since sliced bread. She was nice and everything ( outside of a few obvious problems which explained why she was divorced I guess) but I felt really bad trying to tell her I wasn't interested without hurting her. She obviously was having issues and didn't seem too stable.

The fact guys and women DO think differently and the fact women are far less logical in their thought processes then a guy tends to be on average only makes that harder. But in cases like this the guy would like her to decide to walk away, its not the same as him abandoning you.

Now if there is an easier way that most women would agree on in this situation I'm sure many guys would like to hear it. I'm married so it won't apply to me but I know it was a frustrating position to be in and I've been in it a couple times before I met my current wife.

GlindaofOz · Sep 25, 2007, 11:56 AM

Also in reading the book by the Pease's you will see that a man will do anything to keep a woman from crying. That is the last thing they want to see happen. If they think they are going to hurt you in someone and you will wind up crying they will hold back from doing anything.

(am I right Smoothy?)