[NeedKarma]

[Dark_crow]

There is something to be said about deferments, or special treatment for almost all of the presidential candidates, past and present.

[Emland]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion regarding the war. I believe that with every fiber of my American being.

I have a problem with the members of the US Armed Services being referred to as "kid" or "child." They are adult men and women that have voluntarily chosen to serve their country.

[jillianleab]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion regarding the war. I believe that with every fiber of my American being.

I have a problem with the members of the US Armed Services being referred to as "kid" or "child." They are adult men and women that have voluntarily chosen to serve their country.

I think you make a great point about the military being voluntary; I think this is frequently swept under the rug when discussing war. Then men and women serving in the military made the choice to sign up and fight for their country - does that mean they deserve to be blown up in a roadside bombing? No, of course not. But it DOES mean then chose their path and now are following it. It's a shame that lives are being lost, and by no means am I a Bush and war supporter, but I think we must remember these men and women are doing this out of choice, not out of requirement.

If military service were required in this country and Bush managed to get his kids exempt, the photo would make me extremely angry. But it's not, so it doesn't.

[NeedKarma]

Ah, but who sends them there for extended stays and for dubious reasons?

These nice young republicans could sign up:

YouTube - Young Republican Chickenhawks

[jillianleab]

Most anyone COULD sign up. I COULD sign up. My husband COULD sign up. But here's the thing - I don't WANT to. It's my choice to not sign up, just as it is the choice of each person who did sign up to do so. Are you really of the school of thought that if you support the war your should be serving? And while some of the kids on the video you posted could have been lying about their "medical problems" isn't it also possible the film maker talked to 100 students and only included the ones with "medical problem" excuses? Isn't it also possible they actually have "medical problems"? But if they do or if they don't, it doesn't matter - our military is voluntary and a lot of people recognize they can make a bigger difference and have a better life out of the military than in it. My husband went to a recruiter shortly after high school; he tested and could have signed up and they would have paid him about $23,000/yr. He was making $24,000/yr already. Two years later he was making $40,000/yr. I'll keep his current salary a secret, but it's a heck of a lot more than he would be making if he had enlisted.

Yes, it is the govt and military sending individuals on extended stays, and I feel bad for the soldiers who want to come home and can't. But there are many who get sent home and WANT to go BACK. Believe it or not, there are people fighting this war who believe in it, and are 100% willing to lose their life fighting. It's not right that these people are told they are being deployed for three months and a year later they are still away from home; that's a problem that needs fixing. But it doesn't make the pic you posted anything more than rhetoric. :)

[Dark_crow]

Most anyone COULD sign up. I COULD sign up. My husband COULD sign up. But here's the thing - I don't WANT to. It's my choice to not sign up, just as it is the choice of each person who did sign up to do so. Are you really of the school of thought that if you support the war your should be serving? And while some of the kids on the video you posted could have been lying about their "medical problems" isn't it also possible the film maker talked to 100 students and only included the ones with "medical problem" excuses? Isn't it also possible they actually have "medical problems"? But if they do or if they don't, it doesn't matter - our military is voluntary and a lot of people recognize they can make a bigger difference and have a better life out of the military than in it. My husband went to a recruiter shortly after high school; he tested and could have signed up and they would have paid him about $23,000/yr. He was making $24,000/yr already. Two years later he was making $40,000/yr. I'll keep his current salary a secret, but it's a heck of a lot more than he would be making if he had enlisted.

Yes, it is the govt and military sending individuals on extended stays, and I feel bad for the soldiers who want to come home and can't. But there are many who get sent home and WANT to go BACK. Believe it or not, there are people fighting this war who believe in it, and are 100% willing to lose their life fighting. It's not right that these people are told they are being deployed for three months and a year later they are still away from home; that's a problem that needs fixing. But it doesn't make the pic you posted anything more than rhetoric. :)

The interesting thing about Americans whose life is all about money is, they forget someone else did their duty to provide an environment where money was to be made. Israel has the right idea, everyone spends some time providing that kind of an environment.

[jillianleab]

The interesting thing about Americans whose life is all about money is, they forget someone else did their duty to provide an environment where money was to be made. Israel has the right idea, everyone spends some time providing that kind of an environment.

My, what a generalization you've made! Know the nice thing about generalizations? They don't apply to everyone.

[BABRAM]

His Kid vs. Your Kid

My younger brother will turn forty his next birthday. He is on his third tour in Iraq under our current President. Please everyone that is G-d fearing pray for his protection. Baruch HaShem. Yes, Bush has a couple brats for daughters and they will probably never participate in any war their entire life with exception of a possible future ugly divorce court battle or two. Their father, my President, which I disagree with on many issues including tactical war planning considering the turmoil of the region, has never served in battle action either. That being said, his daughters are acting as children usually act, no different than many other of our past presidents children.




Bobby

[jillianleab]

Good luck to your brother, Bobby. A good friend of mine was recently deployed (for the first time), my sister-in-law's brother was deployed (for the second time) and her younger brothers (three of them) have all done at least one tour. Hopefully your brother will come home safely.

You know, I just thought of another way the picture could be interpreted...

"Boy! Look at Bush's kid being an immature brat who thinks it's cute to make faces at the paparazzi... and look at MY kid who is doing an adult, honarable thing by fighting for his country. I'm lucky MY kid is an adult."

Just a thought...

[ETWolverine]

Yeah, lots of questions. But just one that is relevant.

Are the soldiers conscripts or are they volunteers?

If they are conscripts and Bush fanagled a deferment or a waiver for his kids when everyone else's kids were going to war, you MIGHT have a point.

But if those soldiers are volunteers... and they are... then the Bush girls are just 2 more kids out of several tens of millions of kids who have not chosen to serve in the military. No different from your kids.

Now... if we put a picture of your son or daughter next to the picture of a wounded soldier, what would we see, Need Karma? Is your child serving (or if you are too young to have kids, are YOU serving), or do you only expect the Bush twins to serve?

I, on the other hand, didn't serve in the US military. I served in the Israeli military instead. Same difference, though. I served. The soldiers who volunteered to join the military are all serving. Some people choose to serve, others don't. Why hold Bush's daughters (or Bush) to a standard that you don't hold for yourself or most other people?

Furthermore, how do you know that Bush's daughters aren't serving this country in some other capacity that only they can do because of their celebrity status as daughters of the President? Do you know for a fact that they aren't?

But it's not really about who serves and who doesn't, is it Karma. It's really about America's "Imperialism", and how "unfair" it is that we're waging war in some other country and people are dying.

Boo hoo. Cry me a river.

You want to compare and contrast pictures? Her you go:



The world before 9/11




The world after 9/11.

Any questions?


Elliot

[sGt HarDKorE]

The interesting thing about Americans whose life is all about money is, they forget someone else did their duty to provide an environment where money was to be made. Israel has the right idea, everyone spends some time providing that kind of an environment.

I was just going to talk about that but you beat me too it. Money isn't everything, an I only wish people went to live in North Korea or something for a while and see what's its like. One ruler, one author of books, no TV, hardly any technology, poor, sick, weak, etc...

You don't have to support war, just support the ones fighting for it. And yeah they volunteered, it definitely was not for the money and yeah they no the risks. So what if it's a choice, why don't you make the choice then to fight? If everyone had your attitude then who would be fighting for us and then there would be a draft. But after all who cares? You husband can pay them off with his large sum of money!

[kindj]

Here's another site that'll give you who served, only without the political rhetoric and nasty comments. Might take a bit more work to search by person, but there's a spot on there to do that.

Who Served? | Military Service of Politicians

[sGt HarDKorE]

Can you please edit your post and make those pictures links :(

[jillianleab]

I was just going to talk about that but you beat me too it. Money isn't everything, an i only wish people went to live in North Korea or something for a while and see whats its like. One ruler, one author of books, no tv, hardly any technology, poor, sick, weak, etc...

You dont have to support war, just support the ones fighting for it. And yeah they volunteered, it definitely was not for the money and yeah they no the risks. So what if its a choice, why dont you make the choice then to fight? If everyone had your attitude then who would be fighting for us and then there would be a draft. But after all who cares? You husband can pay them off with his large sum of money!

Boy, you both missed the point of my post. Who on this thread has said they don't support the troops who are fighting? Who said money is the only reason to not join the military? Perhaps a reason for not joining the military is simply one can do more good OUT of the military and political environment than IN it. Perhaps a reason for not joining the military is simply "I don't want to". That's the beauty of our voluntary system; if you don't want to join, you don't have to. If you want to join (and lots of people do) you can. Just because someone doesn't join doesn't mean they don't support the troops and appreciate the work they do. As I said, the nice thing about generalizations is that they don't apply to everyone.

[kindj]

Bobby:

I knew it wasn't personal, I just wanted to post a fairly objective site as well. No worries, amigo!

[BABRAM]

Bobby:

I knew it wasn't personal, I just wanted to post a fairly objective site as well. No worries, amigo!

But you have a good point Dennis. I didn't realize that it was a political sponsored site until I went back and looked at it a second time. I'm very patriotic and although I don't always agree with the current administration it was not my intention to demean our current President via anti-Bush rhetoric. I'm going to remove the link.



Bobby

[nicespringgirl]

Are the soldiers conscripts or are they volunteers?

Good question!~

how do you know that Bush's daughters aren't serving this country in some other capacity that only they can do because of their celebrity status as daughters of the President? Do you know for a fact that they aren't?

Exactly!

[NeedKarma]

how do you know that Bush's daughters aren't serving this country in some other capacity that only they can do because of their celebrity status as daughters of the President? Do you know for a fact that they aren't?

Now that you mention it I've never heard of them doing anything, have you?

[tomder55]

Jenna Bush is teaching at a shelter as part of an internship for UNICEF's Educational Policy Department in Latin America, specifically in Panama.

Barbara has been working with a Smithsonian museum in New York, the Cooper-Hewitt National Design Museum. Previously, Barbara had been working with AIDS patients in Africa, in Tanzania, South Africa, and Botswana among other places, through a program sponsored by Baylor College of Medicine's International Pediatrics AIDS Initiative.

This is really a silly discussion to make a cheap political point. . Let's face the facts ;Prince Harry is a Lieutenant in the British Army .He begged to get deployed with his unit in Iraq and was turned down because he would be considered a high value target. Even if the Bush twins served they would not be sent to Iraq under the same logic.