[CaptainRich]

WHOOOOOOOOO... :eek: .what a gigantic straw-man you have thrown in here.

Bull!

They only have access to public property. If they commit crimes they will be tracked, just as excon can attest to.

And bull! To think they only have access to public property is dellusional. Their version of public is the front of my property! I have no problem running them off but within a week or two, others show up. And not just ill-imms, any homeless and useless vagabond.

[Dark_crow]

Bull!


And bull!! To think they only have access to public property is dellusional. Their version of public is the front of my property! I have no problem running them off but within a week or two, others show up. And not just ill-imms, any homeless and useless vagabond.

I suppose there is always some ideal for which people will set aside logic.

[ETWolverine]

WHOOOOOOOOO...:eek: .what a gigantic straw-man you have thrown in here.

They only have access to public property. If they commit crimes they will be tracked, just as excon can attest to.

This whole country is "my house". Yours too, if you are a citizen. And if you are foolish enough to let perfect strangers into your house (even the "public areas" like the living room and kitchen) without knowing who they are and what their intentions are, you deserve what you get. I prefer to inquire as to identity and intentions of those entering my house.

And it is the "private vs. public property" argument that is a straw man. It doesn't matter whether the property they have access to is private or public. Either way, it is tresspassing since they have no right to that "public property", which is the common property of tax-paying citizens any more than they have the right to enter your "private property". A difference without a distinction for the purposes of the illegal immigration argument.

Elliot

[excon]

Do you really think it is wrong to know who is coming into our country before granting them legal status? I certainly don't.

Hello again, El:

No, I don't either. If what you meant by "tracking" them was you just want them to present their papers at the border, then I don't disagree.

But, mee theenks you were talking more about wanting to know where they are WHILE they're here. I mean, what if they steal something and we're not watching?

excon

[Dark_crow]

This whole country is "my house". Yours too, if you are a citizen. And if you are foolish enough to let perfect strangers into your house (even the "public areas" like the living room and kitchen) without knowing who they are and what their intentions are, you deserve what you get. I prefer to inquire as to identity and intentions of those entering my house.

And it is the "private vs. public property" argument that is a straw man. It doesn't matter whether the property they have access to is private or public. Either way, it is tresspassing since they have no right to that "public property", which is the common property of tax-paying citizens any more than they have the right to enter your "private property". A difference without a distinction for the purposes of the illegal immigration argument.

Elliot

Another fallacy... when will it end. The fact of the matter, and that is what counts, facts... is that it is “our house,” to use your analogy, not “your house.” I prefer to assume “good intentions,” rather than assume a person with bad intentions is going to be truthful... what folly! There is a factual distinction for you.:rolleyes:

Hello... did I somehow say illegal immigrants had a right to public property and not hear it... or are you putting words in my mouth?:confused:

[Dark_crow]

Tom

I agree 100% that immigration laws should be enforced, but the subject is, what to do about the ones who have been here for a long period.

[CaptainRich]

I suppose there is always some ideal for which people will set aside logic.

I don't understand... what logic is set aside here?
If they trespass and were to be injured, who's liable?

[CaptainRich]

Tom

I agree 100% that immigration laws should be enforced, but the subject is, what to do about the ones who have been here for a long period of time.

Pack them out! They got here illegaly by breaking laws of this coutry. Many stole identities and SSN's (read *Felony*) and steal services under false ID's, educational and health care to name but two!

[Dark_crow]

Pack them out! They got here illegaly by breaking laws of this coutry. Many stole identities and SSN's (read *Felony*) and steal services under false ID's, educational and health care to name but two!

Have you really given the matter any logical thought?

First, the economy would collapse if all the illegal workers were deported.

Next, the government has its hands full tracking and deporting immigrants that are considered a risk... In all, deportations of illegal immigrants from Asian and African countries have surged by nearly 27 percent. The number of Pakistani, Jordanians, Lebanese and Moroccans deported has doubled, the statistics show; the number of Egyptians deported has nearly tripled.

[CaptainRich]

Have you really given the matter any logical thought?

First, the economy would collapse if all the illegal workers were deported.

Next, the government has its hands full tracking and deporting immigrants that are considered a risk...In all, deportations of illegal immigrants from Asian and African countries have surged by nearly 27 percent. The number of Pakistani, Jordanians, Lebanese and Moroccans deported has doubled, the statistics show; the number of Egyptians deported has nearly tripled.

I'm not talking about vegetable pickers only. I'm certain they fulfill a role. If they didn't do the job, certainly there would be adjustments and the farmers would simply relocate on the other side of the border. I'm not sure why they don't now! Think of the tax and insurance saving they would realize!

I don't think every foreign national in the workforce is illegal. It's my understanding many are considered migrant LEGAL workers, if were talking about just the farm help. It's very apparent they get a toe in the door and just stay beyond their invite.

But, if the numbers being deported is going up, that tells me something is finally being done about their presence here.

[tomder55]

DC

I for one am in favor of a modified version of (for lack of better word) amnesty . However it is noteworthy that a blanket amnesty was tried in the 80's and the enforcement provisions that were in the package was completely ignored. I think that is partly to blame for the increase in illegal crossing since. Shouldn't we just be enforcing the current laws on the books ?You would think that as a matter of trust they would conclude that .

I know that with any comprehensive plan like the one proposed last Spring the enforcement provisions will be similarly ignored . That is why I as well as the many "loud folks " who pressured their representatives say that prove to us you can enforce existing laws ;and control the border... then we can talk about "amnesty" .

This "DREAM ACT " is the worse of both worlds . It tries to force the issue on amnesty and does nothing to address enforcements. In addition it is inherently unfair to folks like Bobby and the many other families who have taken the time and expense to go it the legal way . In fact it is a betrayal of them. Who's the sucka? It would be difficult to exaggerate all of the perverse incentives in the "DREAM ACT", which provide illegals with better treatment than citizens and noncitizens who obey the law.

[Dark_crow]

I'm not talking about vegetable pickers only. I'm certain they fulfill a role. If they didn't do the job, certainly there would be adjustments and the farmers would simply relocate on the other side of the border. I'm not sure why they don't now! Think of the tax and insurance saving they would realize!

I don't think every foreign national in the workforce is illegal. It's my understanding many are considered migrant LEGAL workers, if were talking about just the farm help. It's very apparent they get a toe in the door and just stay beyond their invite.

But, if the numbers being deported is going up, that tells me something is finally being done about their presence here.

“Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials, facing intense political pressure to toughen enforcement, removed 221,664 illegal immigrants from the country over the last year, an increase of more than 37,000 — about 20 percent — over the year before, according to the agency’s tally.”

It is my guess that more came in than was deported; unless something has changed recently.
As Deportation Pace Rises, Illegal Immigrants Dig In

[CaptainRich]

Totally correct, Tom

We have all the laws we need on this. Funding is an issue that needs to be addressed and then we'll see the enforcement.

Enforcement is the next step. Too many times it's been back-burnered.

[CaptainRich]

“Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials, facing intense political pressure to toughen enforcement, removed 221,664 illegal immigrants from the country over the last year, an increase of more than 37,000 — about 20 percent — over the year before, according to the agency’s tally.”

It is my guess that more came in than was deported; unless something has changed recently.
As Deportation Pace Rises, Illegal Immigrants Dig In

You can spout all the stats you want.

That isn't going to change the FACT that by them being here against the laws of our country and theirs, puts them at risk of deportation!!

You want to live in Baja. What if it was illegal to be there but you wanted to stay? Would those not being sent home with you stay there and cry? Of course they would, but just because they have children here shouldn't be an excuse to lie and deceive. Knowingly putting your children through unnecessary emotion.

If my cat had kittens in the oven, I wouldn't acalll them bisquits...

Now, either I didn't explain it right, or you just refuse to believe.

[Dark_crow]

You can spout all the stats you want.

That isn't going to change the FACT that by them being here against the laws of our country and theirs, puts them at risk of deportation!!!

You want to live in Baja. What if it was illegal to be there but you wanted to stay? Would those not being sent home with you stay there and cry? Of course they would, but just because they have children here shouldn't be an excuse to lie and deceive. Knowingly putting your children through unnecessary emotion.

If my cat had kittens in the oven, I wouldn't acalll them bisquits...

Now, either I didn't explain it right, or you just refuse to believe.

I really don't know what you are going on about using such terms as, SPOUT. I did not SPOUT anything; the truth of the matter is that I did not bring-up the subject of family or morals. I simply was pointing out that the government is deporting illegals, and increasingly so. The other point was that more, I believe, are coming in than going out.
You would do well not to make assumptions and read what I write.

[CaptainRich]

You would do well not to make assumptions and read what I write.

Why? What are you going to do? Post more articles about how mommy got sent back to Honduras? Or did you actually read that article? The whole thing is just too much of a tear jerker for me...

[Dark_crow]

Why? What are you gonna do? Post more articles about how mommy got sent back to Honduras? Or did you actually read that article? The whole thing is just too much of a tear jerker for me...

Had the part you refer to been my point I would have posted that part, and no, I have not read the article; as I said, I posted the part that interested me.

[inthebox]

Tom

I agree 100% that immigration laws should be enforced, but the subject is, what to do about the ones who have been here for a long period of time.

We don't do this :


The DREAM Act also makes illegal aliens, present and future, eligible for discounted, in-state tuition rates by repealing the federal law that prohibits such a benefit for illegal aliens, unless it is also extended to citizens and lawful residents. Unlike legal foreign students, illegal aliens will also qualify for federal financial assistance




So legal foreign students, are penalized because they want to add to the nations braintrust,

Meanwhile illlegal aliens, some of whom may not have thought about furthering their education get another incentive, at taxpayor expense.




Grace and Peace

[Dark_crow]

we don't do this :


The DREAM Act also makes illegal aliens, present and future, eligible for discounted, in-state tuition rates by repealing the federal law that prohibits such a benefit for illegal aliens, unless it is also extended to citizens and lawful residents. Unlike legal foreign students, illegal aliens will also qualify for federal financial assistance

so legal foreign students, are penalized because they want to add to the nations braintrust,

meanwhile illlegal aliens, some of whom may not have thought about furthering their education get another incentive, at taxpayor expense.

Grace and Peace

I am completely against the DREAM Act being attached to any other Bill; however I’m not so sure the Act is a bad idea. What the student would have to accomplish in order to get a green card is substantial and would provide a much better citizen than the ones typically coming out of many American households.

Wikipedia provides the basis for my position.

DREAM Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[BABRAM]

Hello again, El:

No, I don't either. If what you meant by "tracking" them was you just want them to present their papers at the border, then I don't disagree.

But, mee theenks you were talking more about wanting to know where they are WHILE they're here. I mean, what if they steal something and we're not watchin?

excon

This is how the immigration process works, for example: anytime my family moves I have to notify the government since I'm a sponsor (Form: I-865). Yes, my family is tracked (Form: AR-11). That's part of the process for the privileges to be part of this wonderful country. Unless immigration laws are reformed in the future otherwise, that's just the way it should be; fair application procedures for everyone. I have to disagree with any Amnesty effort route and definitely with giving anyone lesser responsibilities to the immigration standards. My own family does not get that special treatment and neither should anyone else.


US Immigration Forms


Bobby