[phares30]

I ran across a man yesterday that had one of the most beautiful pits I've ever seen. When I asked him what line his dog came from, he said he breeds ?FTL's? I can't remember the specific letters that he said, but I'm pretty sure that FTL was the abbreviation. Has anyone heard of this line? Could someone point me in the right direction to further research it?
Thanks so much,
~L~:confused:

[shygrneyzs]

I believe the FTL related to the gene card of the dog.
You can look through this: http://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=FTL
And this: http://amrg.info/ftp/canine%20capabi...list%202.1.pdf

I do not claim to understand it but that is what I found and in the world of dog breeding, it could be true.

[RubyPitbull]

I know a lot about pits and have never heard of FTL referred to when discussing bloodlines. Sorry I can't be of more help on that.

Can you describe what the dog looked like? Color and size. Is this just for curiosity's sake that you want to research it, or are you thinking about getting a dog? Bloodlines in a pit are only important if you are thinking about using the dog for fighting. Is that something you are interested in doing or are you considering getting a pit like the one he had, as a pet? Please let me know where your thoughts are on this and describe the dog to me.

[phares30]

I know a lot about pits and have never heard of FTL referred to when discussing bloodlines. Sorry I can't be of more help on that.

Can you describe what the dog looked like? Color and size. Is this just for curiosity's sake that you want to research it, or are you thinking about getting a dog? Bloodlines in a pit are only important if you are thinking about using the dog for fighting. Is that something you are interested in doing or are you considering getting a pit like the one he had, as a pet? Please let me know where your thoughts are on this and describe the dog to me.

I am interested in the possible purchase of a puppy from him, as the dog was conformationally beautiful and seemed temperamentally sound.
I am interested in researching the bloodlines to see the type of stock that the dog is coming from. I am in no way interested in fighting, and have never thought that bloodlines were only referred to for game dogs. There are many different bloodlines out there that I have come across, and each one is geared toward something different, from looks to working ability, etc. Out of my own curiosity and to have a better idea of the stock that this dog could be coming from, I'm researching to learn more. I also have never heard of the three letter abbr. that he used to refer to his lines, so I thought I would come here to ask.

I am looking for a pet, and a dog that I could be involved in other things with, such as agility, canine good citizen, obedience trials, weightpulling and possibly protection work. I strongly believe that these dogs, no matter how well socialized, are dogs that need a job. By researching the stock that he may be using, I can find out any health and temperament issues that may have cropped up from the lines, and be as well informed as I can be before I purchase a puppy. I don't see that researching bloodlines has everything to do with fighting. I want to be as sure as possible that my dog is going to be set up genetically to be the best that he can be and to be a great example for his already tarnished breed name. You are certainly right in the fact that there are specific fighting lines out there, which is another reason I would like to be well informed in my dog's history, as I don't want to promote fighting in any way, shape or form, be it through purchasing a puppy that is geared for it and especially to keep from enabling those breeders.

Now, on to what he looked like:
He was probably about 75-80 lbs, broad chested, VERY blocky head, but with a more prominent muzzle (not the very short muzzle that is being promoted by the Razor's Edge line) that was easily as wide as it was long... He was a deep deep mahogany with a white chest and white on his front toes, but his nose wasn't red, or black really, it was more of a dark brown. His eyes were brown, not amber or green. He wasn't a long dog, either. He was very proportionate in length to his height, and his rear end sat a touch lower than his front end, almost bulldoggish.

I can't be sure that it was FTL that he said, but it was a three letter abbreviation type. I didn't get the chance to ask him again, as we were driving and our light turned green.

Any other information or suggestions anyone might have would be greatly appreciated, and thanks to those of you that have already begun to help me!

[RubyPitbull]

Phares, although I am a HUGE proponent for adoption, it is nice to meet someone so responsible about doing their research prior to considering purchasing. I am quite relieved that your interest is not in fighting a dog. I was trying very hard to choose my words carefully. I think I have become jaded over time by people's responses and intentions with regard to pitbulls and I was worried that your intentions were not in the best interest of the dog. I am not someone who condones breeding of these dogs due to the majority of the breeders intentions, along with the fact that there are literally thousands upon thousands that have been thrown away and are sitting in shelters & rescues waiting to be adopted. They are the first of all the many breeds of dogs out there to be euthanized, due to their reputation when there is a lack of space. I would like to see this sad situation ended.

You are quite right regarding fighting. Nowadays, there are a few responsible breeders out there that do breed these dogs to accomplish different tasks or for show only. There are people out there who would say there are many, many responsible breeders throughout the U.S. I disagree with that, but responsibility is based upon opinion. I can't say that I know definitely that the Razors Edge, Gotti, or any of the many, many lines out there are responsible breeders and don't want, or intend, for their dogs to be used for fighting purposes. I do not have an intimate working knowledge of these people and their kennels.

Pitbulls are amazingly adept at agility. In the past 15 years or so, a number of people have recognized their capabilities as Search & Rescue dogs, along with making great Pet Therapy dogs due to their affectionate nature with people. You are right that these dogs do need jobs. They are very smart and need to be challenged in positive ways. But, the original lines were bred solely for their fighting aptitude, which is what I thought you meant. If you have done some research, you know that bulldogs were one of the breeds used early on in producing what is now the Pit Bull or Staffordshire Terrier.

Since you only saw this dog at a traffic light, you didn't have ample time to assess his temperament. These dogs have a number of traits pulled from many other breeds and there are recessive traits that come out frequenly in litters. It really depends on the breeder and how long they have been breeding. The longer they have been in business, the easier it is to be able to see how many of the offspring have the right qualities for the task they are bred for. If this is the first pitbull owned by that man, there isn't any guarantee that a pup produced from one of the litters will have all the qualities you are looking for. One pup in a number of litters might have the appearance you desire, but the temperament is a whole other matter. And just remember, you need to consider the female's contribution to the gene pool. You will have to do a lot of research and background checks for both parents of what you believe may be a promising pup. Regarding that dog's appearance, even though his nose & eyes were brown, from your description I believe he is considered a Red Nose. As to the exact lineage, that I cannot answer. Are you positive that this was a pure bred dog and not a mixed breed? Did you get this man's phone number? Can you check out his home & ensure that he is not breeding dogs for fighting? Will you have access to checking the background on both the male & female? Please, don't ever just take someone's word for it. You need to see paperwork regarding the lineage and you need to see proper recordkeeping as to where the offspring are and what they are used for. Once you have the lineage, you can start in on narrowing down your research. There are so many bloodlines now and they vary from breeder to breeder. They create their own "kennel/house" of dogs.

I am sorry that I cannot give you more specific lineage information on pitbulls that are bred for specific work. If you do an internet search for this, you will see many breeders/kennels listed and they will talk about the lineage of their particular dog. I will not give a link to a breeder that I am not intimately familiar with and that I am not 100% certain of their purpose for breeding. Anyone can build a web site and claim they are nice people who do not believe in dog fighting. Be very wary of the people who are willing to sell dogs out of state without meeting the buyer and ensuring their dog will not be used for fighting and will have a good home.

Here are some links that might help you in your basic research.
Dog Owner's Guide Profile: The American Pit Bull Terrier
American Pit Bull Terrier
American Pit Bull Terrier Network Pit Bull Encyclopedia A to Z about the APBT
http://www.realpitbull.com/terms.html

I think you might have a much better chance of finding the kind of pit that you want, with the appearance that you desire, along with your being able to assess the temperament for the work you want to train it for prior to committing yourself financially, if you check through Petfinder.com: Adopt a pet and help an animal shelter rescue a puppy or kitten., and begin to narrow down some prospects, or start haunting your local shelters. Become friendly with the people that work there and tell them what your intentions are regarding training a dog for a job & the appearance. It will be less costly, you actually can find a good and stable dog if you do your homework, and you will be saving a life. I am living proof of this working out. My rescued red nose is in training to be a Pet Therapy dog.

[phares30]

I am an advocate of rescue, myself! My husband and I recently adopted a Bull Terrier through breed rescue this last spring, and she's absolutely the greatest! We also have a rescued Bulldog, and he has been riddled with genetic problems and in and out of the vet's for the entire 5 years of his life with us. We are now faced with possibly having to have him put to sleep due to his blindness and deafness causing other temperamental problems. I just can't see a dog suffering, and not being able to live a normal life. He has become extremely aggressive when startled, and very depressed and lethargic, and its breaking my heart.
We are looking into potential breeders, as we'd like to raise a puppy again ourselves, and with bullies, you're taking on a huge responsibility if you do your research and the parents and breeders check out as it is. When looking into rescue, you're taking on that responsibility, and the very possible lack thereof from the people who may have had the dog before you... Don't get me wrong, rescues seem to have a different thankful outlook on life, and it is one of the most rewarding things I've been able to do. But this time I'd like to raise a puppy, know the stock its coming from, and be able to contact the breeder for the remainder of the dog's life.
This dog could very well have been a red nose, or an outcross. His skin pigment didn't look quite right to me for him to have been a red nose, so that is what I'm questioning. He was very dark pigmented, and his eye rims and lips were black. I'm positive he was a purebred pit, he looked like a possible Gotti cross... but...
Put a darker mahogany color and a bit wider chest with natural ears on Poodle Dave, here, and you've got the looks of the boy I saw yesterday!


As for his temperament, he was walking him downtown amongst other people and other dogs (some of the other dogs were off leash and not very well mannered, to say the least!) and he was a perfect gentleman. He would show them mind, but not a whole lot! Children were stopping him to pet him, and of course you have your swervers! Lol But all in all, in the short time I watched them walk down the street, I was beyond impressed with him. Not at all pulling away in the lead, just calmly walking at a heel with a loose leash at his master's side.

I did get the phone number of the man that was walking him. He said he wouldn't be breeding a litter for a few months, and that he was pretty exclusive with his lines and his puppies, so hopefully that's a good sign. The dog was in perfect health, gorgeous, in shape, shiny coat, bright eyes... His toes were tight and he had a springy step, much unlike many pits you see in our area. We have a lot that are very splayed at the ankles, and almost all of them are very splay toed. Not sure what that means, but I know it doesn't look healthy or sound. When people start breeding for mass and head size, it really leaves so much else on the poor dog lacking... Big head is great and all, but when the dog is walleyed or has an under bite due to it, that's just sad, and totally preventable.
Same goes with the short and bully... Short and stout is very appealing to many, but when the dog's actual structure is at stake, I just don't see the value in it.

At any rate, thanks again, and I'll keep you posted when I get a phone call back from the gentleman.

[RubyPitbull]

Honey, I am so sorry about your Bullie! That is very sad, but at least you were able to give him a good home. There is something to be said for that. Your Bull Terrier is gorgeous!

You gave an excellent description and "Poodle Dave" is exactly what was in my mind's eye. But, you didn't mention the gums (lips) or eye rims. If they were black, then even though he was a dark mahogany with a brown nose, he would be considered a blue nose. Red noses do have brown noses, but the gums are the deciding factor. Doesn't mean much in the scheme of things. Bloodlines can come in all colors.

Yes, we never know what we will get when we go through the rescues. Although, you don't have to adopt an older dog. I fully understand your concern there. You can get a puppy through the rescues and you can take the time to temperament test. You can also tell right off the bat if there are any problems with the eyes, paws, or body. Of course, you aren't guaranteed that they will be free from genetic defects. Mine came through Pit Bull Rescue Central. Her pic is my avitar. They are an amazing group of people and go out of their way to save these dogs. Mine was a bit older at 6 months but they constantly have litters of 8 week old pups they need to find homes for. At any rate, I am not going to force what I would personally do onto you. You are doing the right thing through taking your time and doing deliberate research. Find out all you can about this man, as I stated above on my previous post. Definitely keep me posted. I would like to know what the lineage is and what your thoughts are on this guy's operation.

[phares30]

Both his 'lips' and eye rims were black.

[RubyPitbull]

Yes, I got that from the second post. LOL. Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant that you didn't mention anything about them in your earlier post when you gave me the description. But, it does sound like he would be considered a blue nose. Either way, you will get the full story when you contact the man. Definitely keep me posted. I am very interested.

I can't take my eyes off your little girl! She is very cute. I do a lot of foster work and retraining of rescues, but I have never had the good fortune to work with a bull terrier. I have a friend who has one and she is a sweetie. Always up for a good romp.

[phares30]

Olly is about a year and a half old now. She's seen her school of hard knocks, too. Thank goodness for the breed rescue and her foster mom and dad!
Olly was found in a pound in Las Vegas when she was about 3-4 months old. Rescue took her in, and had her spayed. She didn't recover like she should have, so her foster mom took her back into the vet, just in time, too. They discovered she had parvo. How she survived it, I'll never know, but it was mostly due to diligent caretaking on her foster's part, and the rest was simply just the bully attitude to never say die. It took her some weeks to recover from the parvo after a week and a half long sickness.
Once she was up and running again, she broke her femur, and no one could figure out how. She was rushed into emergency surgery at the specialized surgeon center in Vegas, and once again was on crate rest and under a severely watchful eye. A few more months passed, and she was finally well enough for us to adopt her! She's been going strong ever since. She truly is unable to be slowed down, and her happiness is contagious. She's absolutely the funniest dog I have ever been around, and unlike any dog that I have ever been around. Absolutely nothing gets her down, and I truly would hate to see someone get a hold of a dog like her with the wrong intentions, I have never seen a dog with the pain tolerance and drive that she possesses. Thankfully, she is so happy and playful that I can keep her under wraps! There isn't a mean bone in her body, and I have never met a sweeter and more loyal dog. Stubborn as the day is long, but wouldn't hurt a fly!

[RubyPitbull]

She is very cute. Yes, they can be stubborn! LOL. Like pitbulls, they are a very affectionate breed. I have never owned such an affectionate and always wanting to cuddle dog as my girl. People have to be careful where they sit because she likes to sit on your lap. At 60 pounds, it can be a bit uncomfortable.

You are a good hearted person for giving her a home. Isn't it amazing that we can always find very expensive purebreds in rescues & shelters. I am glad that she was able to push past all her early obstacles. They really are a stout and hardy breed.