[G4-450]

[2.190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers
[2.192] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.Such is the recompense of the disbelievers..

The above is the correct translation, not your Nime Kumpf version.

Fitna (not fatwa)
Question :

I see the word fitnah repeated often in the Qur’aan in several soorahs and aayahs. Is there a difference in the meanings of this word, and what are its various meanings?


Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Definition of fitnah:

1 – The word fitnah from a linguistic point of view:

G-450 “The Arabic word fitnah means evil. like someone atacking another from there own orejudcues or hatred,


Put to trial DOES NOT MEAN to be persecuted, it means you your indavidual self will face your own choices, there is no compulssion in religion .

4- Shirk and kufr, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

SHirk means; polythiests
Kufr means; athiests
You ayat that states;
“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allaah)” [al-Baqarah 2:193]
is really

IS realy;

[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

So your lying since this is not what the koran exactly says, your committing fitna, cops should be aware about people like you who start trouble because you're a paranoid xenophobe alike your friends the nazis who where cowards and claimed the jews where a threat to them once.

you yourself said that some nazis are good in some of your posts

You admitted to been a bais racist, I am surprised they let you keep posting on this website, it's a known crime to think some people should die because you can not live in the world accepting yourself as a man, what demons are eating you up and why is beyond me for I have no clue what you did to deserve losing your soul like this and then trying to take otehrs with you with lies.

Q=how is anyone good for lying and pretending they where a socialist party until gaining power in there government to deceive the German people into there racist diseases?

If your into nazism then you should learn that the nazis found out that they themselves where breeding the bad alcoholic genes, and with siblins too, or did you already learn that the hard way?

[KAOSKTRL]

]Question :

What is the difference between mushrikeen and kuffaar? Are the Jews and Christians mushrikeen or kuffaar?.


Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The kaafir is the one who denies and conceals the truth. The basic meaning of the word kufr in Arabic is concealment. Shirk means devoting worship to anyone or anything other than Allaah.

Kufr may take the form of denying and rejecting, but the mushrik may also believe in Allaah. This is the difference between the mushrik and the kaafir.

Each word may also carry the meaning of the other, so the word kufr may be used in the sense of shirk, and the word shirk may be used in the sense of kufr.

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr and shirk may carry the same meaning, which is disbelief in Allaah, may He be exalted, or they may be used separately, whereby shirk refers to the worship of idols and other created beings, whilst also acknowledging Allaah, as the kuffaar of Quraysh did, and kufr may have a more general meaning than shirk. End quote.

Sharh Saheeh Muslim. 2/71

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr is denial and concealment of the truth, such as one who denies that prayer is obligatory, or that zakaah is obligatory, or that fasting Ramadaan is obligatory, or that doing Hajj when one is able to is obligatory, or that honouring one's parents is obligatory, and so on, or one who denies that zina is haraam, or that drinking intoxicants is haraam, or that disobeying one’s parents is haraam, and so on.

Shirk is devoting acts of worship to something or someone other than Allaah, such as one who seeks the help of the dead, those who are absent, the jinn, idols, the stars, and so on, or who offers sacrifices to them, or makes vows to them. A kaafir may be called a mushrik and a mushrik may be called a kaafir, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allaah, any other ilaah (god), of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely, Al‑Kaafiroon (the disbelievers in Allaah and in the Oneness of Allaah, polytheists, pagans, idolaters) will not be successful”
[al-Mu’minoon 23:117]

“Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode”

[al-Maa'idah 5:72]

And Allaah says in Soorat Faatir (interpretation of the meaning):

“Such is Allaah, your Lord; His is the kingdom. And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmeer (the thin membrane over the date stone).

14. If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad) like Him Who is the All‑Knower (of everything)”
[Faatir 35:13-14]

Their calling on anything other than Allaah is called shirk in this soorah, but in Soorat al-Mu’minoon it is called kufr.

Allaah says in Soorat al-Tawbah (interpretation of the meaning):

“They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allaah’s Light (with which Muhammad has been sent — Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allaah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kaafiroon (disbelievers) hate (it).

33. It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah) hate (it)”

[al-Tawbah 9:32-33]

Here Allaah calls the kuffaar kuffaar, and He calls them mushrikeen. This indicates that a kaafir may be called a mushrik and a mushrik may be called a kaafir. There are many similar verses and ahaadeeth.

Another example is the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his giving up prayer.” Narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him). And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The covenant that differentiates us from them is prayer; whoever gives it up is a kaafir.” Narrated by Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nasaa’i and Ibn Maajah with a saheeh isnaad from Buraydah ibn al-Husayb (may Allaah be pleased with him). And Allaah is the Source of strength. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 9/174, 175.

The Shaykh (may Allaah have mercy on him) also said:

It is also shirk to worship only something other than Allaah. This is called shirk, and it is called kufr. Whoever turns away from Allaah altogether and devotes his worship to something other than Allaah, such as trees, rocks, idols, the jinn or some of the dead such as those whom they call awliya’ (“saints”), and worship them, pray to them or fast for them, and forget Allaah altogether, this is the worst form of kufr and shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. Similarly those who deny the existence of Allaah and say that there is no god, that life is only material, such as the communists and atheists, are the most disbelieving and misguided of people, and the worst in terms of shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. The point is that people who hold these and similar beliefs are all regarded as mushrikeen and kaafirs who disbelieve in Allaah. Some people, out of ignorance, mistakenly regard calling upon the dead and seeking their help as waseelah and think that it is permissible. This is a serious error, because this action is one of the worst forms of shirk and associating others with Allaah. Some ignorant people and mushrikeen call it waseelah, but it is the religion of the mushrikeen whom Allaah criticized and condemned. He sent the Messenger and revealed His Books to denounce it and warn against it. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 4/32, 33

Secondly:

The Jews and Christians are both kaafirs and mushrikeen. They are kaafirs because they deny the truth and reject it. And they are mushrikeen because they worship someone other than Allaah.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

31. They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allaah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allaah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:30, 31]

Here they are described as mushrikeen. In Soorat al-Bayyinah they are described as kaafirs, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al‑Mushrikoon, were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence”

[al-Bayyinah 98:1]

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, refuting those who say that the word mushrikeen cannot be applied to the People of the Book:

It is most likely that the people of the Book are included among the mushrikeen, men and women alike, when this word is used in general terms. Because the kuffaar are undoubtedly mushrikeen. Hence they are forbidden to enter al-Masjid al-Haraam, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe (in Allaah’s Oneness and in His Messenger Muhammad)! Verily, the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, and in the Message of Muhammad) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al‑Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah) after this year”

[al-Tawbah 9:28]

If the People of the Book did not come under the general heading of mushrikeen, then this verse would not apply to them, and Allaah would not have referred to the beliefs of the Jews and Christians in Soorat Baraa’ah (al-Tawbah) where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:31]

So they are all described as mushrikeen, because the Jews said that ‘Uzayr is the son of God and the Christians said that the Messiah is the son of God; and because they took their priests and rabbis as lords instead of Allaah. All of this is the worst form of shirk. And there are many similar verses. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 4/274

And Allaah knows best.

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=en...QR=67626&dgn=4[/QUOTE]

[KAOSKTRL]

SOME KOOK CLAIMS IM CHANGING THE QURAN,
CHECK MY MINE AGAINST THE ONE ON THIS HATE SITE.
YOU HAVE EYES AND A BRAIN FIGURE OUT WHO IS A LIAR.
LOOK UP FITNAH FIND OUT WHAT TASFIR IS AND WHY IT IS Important TO UNDERSTAND.
WHO IS REALLY TRYING TO DISTORT ISLAM?
http://www.road-to-heaven.com/noblequran.htm


2.191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
http://infidels.kafirnation.com/english/surah2.html

Fatwa
Question :

I see the word fitnah repeated often in the Qur’aan in several soorahs and aayahs. Is there a difference in the meanings of this word, and what are its various meanings?


Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Definition of fitnah:

1 – The word fitnah from a linguistic point of view:

Al-Azhari said: “The Arabic word fitnah includes meanings of testing and trial. The root is taken from the phrase fatantu al-fiddah wa’l-dhahab (I assayed (tested the quality of) the silver and gold), meaning I melted the metals to separate the bad from the good. Similarly, Allaah says in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning): ‘(It will be) a Day when they will be tried [yuftanoona] (punished, i.e. burnt) over the Fire!’ [al-Dhaariyaat 51:13], meaning, burning them with fire.” (Tahdheeb al-Lughah, 14/196).

Ibn Faaris said: “Fa-ta-na is a sound root which indicates testing or trial.” (Maqaayees al-Lughah, 4/472). This is the basic meaning of the word fitnah in Arabic.

Ibn al-Atheer said: “Fitnah: trial or test… The word is often used to describe tests in which something disliked is eliminated. Later it was also often used in the sense of sin, kufr (disbelief), fighting, burning, removing and diverting.” (al-Nihaayah, 3/410. Ibn Hajar said something similar in al-Fath, 13/3).

Ibn al-A’raabi summed up the meanings of fitnah when he said: “Fitnah means testing, fitnah means trial, fitnah means wealth, fitnah means children, fitnah means kufr, fitnah means differences of opinion among people, fitnah means burning with fire.” (Lisaan al-‘Arab by Ibn Manzoor).

2 – Meanings of the word fitnah in the Qur’aan and Sunnah:

1- Testing and trial, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: ‘We believe, and will not be tested [la yuftanoon]” [al-‘Ankaboot 29:2]

i.e. that they will not be subjected to trial, as Ibn Jareer said.

2- Blocking the way and turning people away, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“but beware of them lest they turn you [yaftinooka] (O Muhammad) far away from some of that which Allaah has sent down to you” [al-Maa’idah 5:49]

Al-Qurtubi said: this means blocking your way and turning you away.

3- Persecution, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Then, verily, your Lord for those who emigrated after they had been put to trials [futinoo] and thereafter strove hard and fought (for the Cause of Allaah) and were patient, verily, your Lord afterward is, Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful” [al-Nahl 16:110]

Put to trial means persecuted.

4- Shirk and kufr, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allaah)” [al-Baqarah 2:193]

Ibn Katheer said: this means shirk (worshipping others besides Allaah).

5- Falling into sin and hypocrisy, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“(The hypocrites) will call the believers: “Were we not with you?” The believers will reply: “Yes! But you led yourselves into temptations [fatantum anfusakum], you looked forward for our destruction; you doubted (in Faith) and you were deceived by false desires” [al-Hadeed 57:14]

Al-Baghawi said: i.e. you made yourselves fall into hypocrisy and you destroyed yourselves by means of sin and whims and desires.

6- Confusing truth with falsehood, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And those who disbelieve are allies of one another, (and) if you (Muslims of the whole world collectively) do not do so [i.e. become allies, as one united block under one Khaleefah (a chief Muslim ruler for the whole Muslim world) to make victorious Allaah’s religion of Islamic Monotheism], there will be Fitnah (wars, battles, polytheism) and oppression on the earth, and a great mischief and corruption (appearance of polytheism)”[al-Anfaal 6:73]

What this means is that “unless believers are taken as close friends instead of disbelievers, even if they are relatives, there will be fitnah on earth, i.e., truth will be confused with falsehood.” This is how it is explained in Jaami’ al-Bayaan by Ibn Jareer.

7- Misguidance, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whomsoever Allaah wants to put in Al‑Fitnah (error, because of his rejecting of Faith), you can do nothing for him against Allaah” [al-Maa'idah 5:41]

The meaning of fitnah here is misguidance. Al-Bahr al-Muheet by Abu Hayaan, 4/262.

8- Killing and taking prisoners, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“if you fear that the disbelievers may put you in trial [yaftinakum] (attack you)”

[al-Nisa’ 4:101]

This refers to the kaafirs attacking the Muslims whilst they are praying and prostrating, in order to kill them or take them prisoner, as stated by Ibn Jareer.

9- Difference among people and lack of agreement, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“and they would have hurried about in your midst (spreading corruption) and sowing sedition among you [yabghoonakum al-fitnah]” [al-Tawbah 9:47]

i.e. they would have stirred up differences amongst you, as it says in al-Kashshaaf, 2/277.

10-Insanity, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Which of you is afflicted with madness (maftoon)” [al-Qalam 68:6] Here it means madness.

11-Burning with fire, as in the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, those who put into trial [fatanoo] the believing men and believing women (by torturing them and burning them)”[al-Burooj 85:10]

Ibn Hajar said: the meaning may be understood from the context. (al-Fath 11/176)

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng
The Polytheism and Disbelief of the Christians

Allah states that the Christians are disbelievers because of their claim that `Isa, son of Maryam, one of Allah's servants and creatures, is Allah. Allah is holier than what they attribute to Him. Allah then reminds them of His perfect ability over everything and that everything is under His complete control and power,

[قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئاً إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِى الاٌّرْضِ جَمِيعاً]

(Say: "Who then has the least power against Allah, if He were to destroy the Messiah, son of Maryam, his mother, and all those who are on the earth together") Therefore, if Allah wills to do that, who would be able to stop Him or prevent Him from doing it Allah then said,

[وَللَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَآءُ]

(And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them. He creates what He wills.) All things in existence are Allah's property and creation and He is able to do everything. He is never asked about what He does with His power, domain, justice and greatness so this refutes the Christian creed, may Allah's continued curses be upon them until the Day of Resurrection.

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=13560

Shirk is worse than Killing

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah said:

[وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَشَدُّ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ]

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''[/QUOTE]

[KAOSKTRL]

I would appreciat if you would stop trying to hijack Islam,
Good muslims like it straight and not apologized for .
If you don't like Islam leave it ,
And run for your life as you will lose your head traitor.
Kafir need to know what Islam is and fear and submit
They don't have to like it or agree .
Hell fire for you hypocrite.

[Morganite]

G$-450 said:

"Morganite's post about the dead sea scrolls and the Gospel of Barnabes
proves that Jesus was never crucified, So how could any man have known
this 1400 years ago when the Dead Sea Ccrolls appeared 1946?"


MORGANITE made no mention of the Gospel of Barnabas and no reference to the cruxifixion or otherwise, of Jesus.


Imagination is a good thing unless it gets out of control and reads things that are not written. That is a more serious matter of schizophrenia.





MORGANITE

:)

[Morganite]

I would appreciat if you would stop trying to hijack Islam,
good muslims like it straight and not apologized for .
If you dont like Islam leave it ,
and run for your life as you will lose your head traitor.
Kafir need to know what Islam is and fear and submit
they dont have to like it or agree .
Hell fire for you hypocrite.

Allah is said to be munificent so why can't his followers be municifent? Why all the talk of blood and beheading? Is it to make converts through fear? I know good Muslims and they do not use wild talk like crazy killers. They please Allah. Murderers who hide behind his name do not please Allah.






MORGANITE



:eek:

[KAOSKTRL]

Allah is said to be munificent so why can't his followers be municifent? Why all the talk of blood and beheading? Is it to make converts through fear? I know good Muslims and they do not use wild talk like crazy killers. They please Allah. Murderers who hide behind his name do not please Allah.

The Quran teaches
Mohammed is the glorious pattern for life.
Murder, theft, rape, and terror are the examples he
Left in the, sunnah, hadith and Al Sira.

[Morganite]

The Quran teaches
Mohammed is the glorious pattern for life.
Murder, theft, rape, and terror are the examples he
left in the, sunnah, hadith and Al Sira.

Let me guess - you are anti-Islam pretending to be a Muslim, but you are a flamer, right?

:eek:


MORGANITE

[KAOSKTRL]

I defend Islamic scripture from people who
Will lie and try to create a false inage of Islam. .
I am not a muslim.
I don't know what a flamer is.
Im not a troll .
Im a full time defender Of Islam.24/7/365

[G4-450]

I defend Islamic scripture from people who
will lie and try to create a false inage of Islam. .
I am not a muslim.
I dont know what a flamer is.
Im not a troll .
Im a full time defender Of Islam.24/7/365

You lied about it, period and a liar and YOU KNOW IT well,

You where banned before and came back to post here for the first time, what else does a hypocrite do to win his argument "but cheat himeslf out of the truth" which is all you do, sorry for the SLAPP, :cool:

But I don't mind you proving that your also what is referred to a Mamon in the bible.


24. No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mamon.

Mam·mon P Pronunciation Key (mmn)
n.
1. Bible. Riches, avarice, and worldly gain personified as a false god in the New Testament.
often mammon Material wealth regarded as having an evil influence.

[NeedKarma]

I would appreciat if you would stop trying to hijack Islam,
good muslims like it straight and not apologized for .
If you dont like Islam leave it ,
and run for your life as you will lose your head traitor.
Kafir need to know what Islam is and fear and submit
they dont have to like it or agree .
Hell fire for you hypocrite.

What does the bolded part mean?

[G4-450]

What does the bolded part mean?

He is trying to say that islam is a peacefull loving religion which Abraham set up for all humanity and stands against devision between racial complexity or national racists like him, who is a nazi.


Read his 2nd post here, he said some nazis ( aka racist psycho killers) are good people.

[NeedKarma]

He is trying to say that islam is a peacefull loving religion which Abraham set up for all humanity and stands against devision between racial complexity or national racists like him, who is a nazi.


read his 2nd post here, he said some nazis ( aka racist psycho killers) are good people.

Actually I thought it referred to what happened if you ever decided to leave the religion. Perhaps he can enlighten me on that.

[G4-450]

If your into hatred, anti semiticism and nazism maybe, I am sure he will enlighten you with fire.

[KAOSKTRL]

What does the bolded part mean?

It means good muslims will kill him for being a traitort to islam something he needs to be remind of when he want to paint Islam as a rational choice.
Not all muslims are evil but Islam is just like not all nazus were bad but nazism is the same thngs islam some part of the Quran and hadith are almost indistinguishable from Mien Kampf.
I really need to get to putting that all together as a gameshow Hitler or Mohammeed.


"Existence impels the Jew to lie, just as it compels the inhabitants of Northern countries to wear warm clothing" -Mein Kampf, p. 305

"...the Jews are a nation of liars...the Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people." -Ishaq Hadith 240

[KAOSKTRL]

And I will be happey to direct to to where you can probalby find answers to questions you may have about Islam. Or answer them straight up either way,
I won't tell you something you cannot confirm if you know what question to ask.
If I don't know where to find something it one of my friends may .
Pretty huge site you guys have here.

[NeedKarma]

It means good muslims will kill him for being a traitort to islam

So let me see if I understand this: if you decide to leave islam then your fellow muslims can kill you for that?

[KAOSKTRL]

Punishing apostasy not arbitrary interpretation
Abu Mubarak
Aug 15, 05 3:55pm


Responding to Apostates will ‘die in unbelief’, Truth Seeker should understand that the death punishment for apostasy is held valid by the Syafie, Maliki, Hambali and Hanafi mazahib schools of thought. It is also accepted by the Syiah school of thought. The Hanafis, however, are in the opinion that female apostates should be imprisoned, instead of being sentenced to death.

Thus, punishing apostasy is not Mujahid Yusof Rawa’s interpretation of Islam. Neither is it the interpretation of Islam by PAS, the party he belongs to. This ruling could not have been arbitrarily interpreted by any individual or political party. This is not political issue.

The majority of Muslims in Malaysia are of the mazhab Syafie, including those in Umno. In fact, Dr Amran Kasimin, the Serdang Umno Division chief and Bangi state assemblyperson, wrote in his book Satu analisa mengenai murtad (pg 66):

‘Ulamak telah sepakat mengatakan bahawa hukum murtad ialah hukum bunuh berdasarkan hadis... Hukum bunuh ke atas orang murtad ialah qat’ie, iaitu hukum yang tidak boleh dipinda atau diubah suai. Hak Allah yang wajib dilaksanakan.’ (It is the consensus among the ulama that the punishment for apostasy is death. This death sentence is a very clear ruling, which cannot be amended or modified. It is the command from Allah to be implemented).

I can comfortably say, this opinion is the de facto in the Islamic fiqh, worldwide. It is not my intention to debate on this ruling. I’m merely emphasising that when a Muslim scholar says that freedom of faith doesn’t mean a Muslim is free to commit apostasy, he is merely conveying the existing Islamic worldview on the matter.

It is certainly not of their invention. Don’t blame the postman when you don’t like the bill in your letter box.

To force any Muslim scholar to retract this ruling is like forcing the postman to amend the bill they are entrusted to deliver to your letter box. It is clear to any just-minded person that this approach would not work.

Religion is not man’s invention. The best man can do with religion is to preach and practice its teachings. If the Islamic teaching says we should condemn apostates to death, what right do we have to amend this no matter how absurd it is in the eyes of the other faiths?

Umran Kadir argued that punishing apostates is in clear contradiction of Quranic teachings though there are many hadith which he could refer which would certainly negate his argument. In fact, the first person to declare war against organised apostasy was Abu Bakar As-Siddiq, the highest ranking among the Prophet Muhammad’s many companions.

Certainly, Abu Bakar, the most highly regarded of the Prophet’s companions, would not have acted against the teachings of the Quran, which he understood very well.
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/39055

Freedom of worship ios a bedrock issue in western style democracies

Sa'id Raja'i-Khorassani, the Permanent Delegate to the United Nations from the Islamic Republic of Iran, declared, according to Amir Taheri, that "the very concept of human rights was 'a Judeo-Christian invention' and inadmissible in Islam. . . . According to Ayatollah Khomeini, one of the Shah's 'most despicable sins' was the fact that Iran was one of the original group of nations that drafted and approved the Universal Declaration of Human Rights."


http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_apos.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/...es/s892997.htm

http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/0/e...8?Opendocument

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

That fact is at the core of Bush’s reshaping the ME theory bringing freedom to leave Islam with out earthly repercussion from devout Muslims.
Unfortunately his approach will take 30 generations and America will long since have fallen to islam by then.
Or best chance to survive is top end immigration and begin repatriation of all Muslims and French..

Be aware of the order of revelation
http://home.comcast.net/~deep_kemica...chronorev.html

This link is an essay that discusses the Quran quotes and corresponding Hadith applicable to put the issue to bed forever.
http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...rticle_id=3856

[KAOSKTRL]

Apologists' notions of a tolerant, multi-cultural, pluralistic Islam crumbles to dust upon careful examination of Islamic texts as well as an honest, unrefined, politically-incorrect look at its history.

Intolerance of other religions was a staple of Muhammad's prophecy, and this has been pointed out on numerous occasions, citing authoritative Muslim sources exclusively.

Having a complete understanding of the meaning of jihad in Islamic jurisprudence, I've moved on to studying its history, using the later years of Muhammad's life as well as the rule of the "Rightly Guided" caliphs as a starting point.

Right off the bat, we learn that after the prophet's death, several of the previously converted tribes of Arabia apostasized (rejected Islam). Abu Bakr then began a series of campaigns known as the Riddah Wars, which translates literally to Wars of Apostasy.

'No compulsion in religion' is a verse that is often used as a deflection against dozens upon dozens of other verses from several sources of Islamic doctrine that state otherwise. But if Bakr, the first of the Rightly Guided--ie. The Caliphs who served the prophet during his lifetime--felt the need to 'compel' these apostates to return to Islam or face the sword, why should it be any different today?

Bakr's letter to the apostate tribes:

I have learnt with regret that under the misguidance of the Devil you have apostatized from Islam, the true faith of God. I am sending to you a Muslim force consisting of the Muhajreen and the Ansar. I have instructed them not to launch the attack against you, without offering you lslam in the first instance. He who repents, re-enters the fold of Islam, desists from hostile activities against Islam, and does good deeds will be forgiven and granted amnesty. He who refuses to accept Islam, and persists in hostilities will be given no quarter. Force will be used against him, and it will not be possible for him to avert that Allah has ordained for him. Such persons will be put to sword, slaughtered, or burnt to death. Their women and children will be taken captive. Nothing short of allegiance to Islam will be accepted. If after considering this warning, any person seeks his refuge in Islam, such faith will stand him in good stead. But he who persists in his apostasy will never be able to humble God. I have instructed my envoys that they should read this message of mine in public gatherings. Calling the Azan will be regarded as an indication of the acceptance of Islam. If there is no Azan this will be taken to mean that the tribe persists in its apostasy. [LINK]

Was Bakr an extremist who twisted Qur'anic verse to justify evil? Why would a tolerant, pluralistic ideology feel the need to use force to bring apostates back into the fold? Apostates were put to the sword at Zafar, Naqra and Yamamah in 632 CE. as well as Bahrain, Oman, Mahrah Yemen, and Hadramaut the following year.

All because they turned their backs to Islam.

[KAOSKTRL]

11/9/05
International Religious Freedom Report 2005: Iran
Released by US State Department, The Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor

There was no substantive change in the status of respect for religious freedom during the reporting period. Members of the country's religious minorities--including Sunni and Sufi Muslims, Baha'is, Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians--reported imprisonment, harassment, intimidation, and discrimination based on their religious beliefs. Government actions created a threatening atmosphere for some religious minorities, especially Baha'is, Jews, and evangelical Christians.

The U.S. Government makes clear its objections to the Government's treatment of religious minorities through public statements, support for relevant U.N. and nongovernmental organization (NGO) efforts, as well as diplomatic initiatives among all states concerned about religious freedom in the country. Since 1999, the Secretary of State has designated Iran as a "Country of Particular Concern" under the International Religious Freedom Act for its particularly severe violations of religious freedom.

In December 2003, the U.N. General Assembly passed Resolution 58/195 on the human rights situation in the country that expressed serious concern about the continued discrimination against religious minorities by the Government. In the fall of 2004, the U.N. General Assembly passed a resolution condemning the human rights situation in Iran.

Section I. Religious Demography

The country has an area of approximately631,660 square miles, and its population is an estimated 69 million. The population is approximately 97 percent Muslim, of which an estimated 89 percent are Shi'a and 8 percent are Sunni, mostly Turkmen, Arabs, Baluchs, and Kurds living in the southwest, southeast, and northwest. Sufi Brotherhoods are popular, but there are no reliable figures available regarding the size of the Sufi population.

According to the country's most recent official national census, taken in 1996, there were an estimated 59.8 million Muslims, 30,000 Zoroastrians, 79,000 Christians, and 13,000 Jews, with 28,000 "others" and 47,000 "not stated."

Baha'is, Jews, Christians, Mandaeans, and Zoroastrians constitute less than 1 percent of the population combined. The largest non-Muslim minority is the Baha'i community, which has an estimated 300,000 to 350,000 adherents throughout the country. Credible estimates on the size of the Jewish community vary from 20,000 to 30,000. This figure represents a substantial reduction from the estimated 75,000 to 80,000 Jews who resided in the country prior to the 1979 Islamic revolution. According to U.N. figures, there are approximately 300,000 Christians, the majority of whom are ethnic Armenians. Unofficial estimates indicate an Assyrian Christian population of approximately 10,000. There also are Protestant denominations, including evangelical churches. The U.N. Special Representative reported that Christians are emigrating at an estimated rate of 15,000 to 20,000 per year. The Mandaeans, a community whose religion draws on pre-Christian gnostic beliefs, number approximately 5,000 to 10,000 persons, with members residing primarily in Khuzestan in the southwest.

The Government estimates the Zoroastrian community at approximately 30,000 to 35,000 adherents; however, Zoroastrian groups cite an estimated 60,000 adherents. Zoroastrians mainly are ethnic Persians concentrated in the cities of Tehran, Kerman, and Yazd. Zoroastrianism was the official religion of the pre-Islamic Sassanid Empire and thus played a central role in the country's history.

Section II. Status of Religious Freedom

Legal/Policy Framework

The Government restricts freedom of religion. The Constitution declares the "official religion of Iran is Islam and the doctrine followed is that of Ja'fari (Twelver) Shi'ism." All laws and regulations must be consistent with the official interpretation of the Shari'a (Islamic law). The Constitution states that "within the limits of the law," Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians are the only recognized religious minorities who are guaranteed freedom to practice their religion; however, members of these recognized minority religious groups have reported imprisonment, harassment, intimidation, and discrimination based on their religious beliefs. Adherents of religions not recognized by the Constitution do not enjoy freedom to practice their beliefs. This restriction seriously affects adherents of the Baha'i Faith, which the Government regards as a heretical Islamic group with a political orientation that is antagonistic to the country's Islamic revolution. However, Baha'is view themselves not as Muslims, but as an independent religion with origins in the Shi'a Islamic tradition. Government officials have stated that, as individuals, all Baha'is are entitled to their beliefs and are protected under the articles of the Constitution as citizens; however, the Government has continued to prohibit Baha'is from teaching and practicing their faith.

The tricameral government structure is ruled over by a supreme religious jurisconsult, or "Supreme Leader." This Supreme Leader, chosen by a group of 83 Islamic scholars, oversees the State's decision-making process. All acts of the Majlis (legislative body or parliament) must be reviewed for conformity with Islamic law and the Constitution by the Council of Guardians, which is composed of six clerics appointed by the Supreme Leader, as well as six Muslim jurists (legal scholars) nominated by the Head of the Judiciary and approved by the Majlis.

The Ministry of Islamic Culture and Guidance (Ershad) and the Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS) monitor religious activity closely. Adherents of recognized religious minorities are not required to register individually with the Government; however, their communal, religious, and cultural events and organizations, including schools, are monitored closely. Registration of Baha'is is a police function. The Government has pressured evangelical Christian groups to compile and submit membership lists for their congregations, but evangelicals have resisted this demand. Non-Muslim owners of grocery shops are required to indicate their religious affiliation on the fronts of their shops.

Restrictions on Religious Freedom

By law and practice, religious minorities are not allowed to be elected to a representative body or to hold senior government or military positions; however, 5 of a total 270 seats in the Majlis are reserved for religious minorities. Three of these seats are reserved for members of the Christian faith, two seats for the country's Armenian Christians, and one for Assyrians and Chaldeans. There is also one seat for a member of the Jewish faith, and one for a member of the Zoroastrian faith. While members of the Sunni Muslim minority do not have reserved seats in the Majlis, they are allowed to serve in the body. Members of religious minorities, including Sunni Muslims, are allowed to vote. All of Iran's minority religions, including Sunni Muslims, are barred from being elected President.

All religious minorities suffer varying degrees of officially sanctioned discrimination, particularly in the areas of employment, education, and housing. The Government does not protect the right of citizens to change or renounce their religious faith. Apostasy, specifically conversion from Islam, may be punishable by death; however, there were no reported cases of the death penalty being applied for apostasy during the reporting period.
Members of religious minorities, excluding Sunni Muslims, are prevented from serving in the judiciary and security services and from becoming public school principals. Applicants for public sector employment are screened for their adherence to and knowledge of Islam. Government workers who do not observe Islam's principles and rules are subject to penalties. The Constitution states that the country's army must be Islamic and must recruit individuals who are committed to the objectives of the Islamic revolution; however, in practice no religious minorities are exempt from military service.
http://www.payvand.com/news/05/nov/1072.html