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doffy · Oct 5, 2007, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by mountain_man

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...

he's just a made up character of the jews... there's a god...but the existence of jesus is yet to be proven...

Tj3 · Oct 5, 2007, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by doffy

he's just a made up character of the jews... there's a god...but the existence of jesus is yet to be proven...

There is not a single credible historian, Christian or secular, who denies the existence of Jesus.

Leidenschaftlich für Wahr · Oct 5, 2007, 09:12 PM

My king, My friend, my love, my purpose.

Clough · Oct 5, 2007, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by doffy

he's just a made up character of the jews... there's a god...but the existence of jesus is yet to be proven...

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

fallen2grace · Oct 7, 2007, 08:59 PM

But of corse! I love this answer. :]

savedsinner7 · Oct 13, 2007, 03:13 PM

Jesus is the one who saved me from my sins and from myself. A destructive course of life was chosen when I chose to curse God for what I mistakenly believed as a child was His taking my family apart. I fell into drugs and sexual addiction and when I cried out to the LORD to save me or let me die, He chose to save me. Why He loves me (and He tells me every day in His Word) I don't quite understand. I am thankful that He has called me as His own and called me to a closer walk with Him. I am thankful that He is the one who makes my stains to be washed away as I cannot ever make myself holy enough to be in His presence. I am thankful that He whispers His love in my heart when the cares of this world become too much for me to bear. I am thankful that He is the Author and Finisher of my faith. If it were not for Him I would not have this faith as everyone is given a measure of faith. He instills in me a desire to obey Him, to love Him, to know Him more. He is the Everlasting from Everlasting to Everlasting, the One who is, Who was and Who is to come. He is all I ever need, even though I decieve myself into believing otherwise. He will supply my ever need if I will just sit back and let Him be my God, He said He'd do this for me.

michealb · Oct 13, 2007, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

There is not a single credible historian, Christian or secular, who denies the existence of Jesus.

Only because as soon as he says that Jesus didn't exist, you would no longer think that he was credible. Since like many other things we all have an idea of what is credible but my definition can very greatly to yours.

retsoksirhc · Oct 14, 2007, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

There is not a single credible historian, Christian or secular, who denies the existence of Jesus.

I believe that there are records that show a man named Jesus did live around that time. That's probably why nobody denies he existed. There are, however, people who believe he existed, but deny that he was a savior. I usually call these people "Jewish".
Judaism's view of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tj3 · Oct 14, 2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by retsoksirhc

I believe that there are records that show a man named Jesus did live around that time. That's probably why nobody denies he existed. There are, however, people who believe he existed, but deny that he was a savior. I usually call these people "Jewish".

Jesus Himself, God manifest in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16) as well as all of the apostles who held to His divinity were also Jewish, and we have their testimonies.

retsoksirhc · Oct 14, 2007, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Jesus Himself, God manifest in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16) as well as all of the apostles who held to His divinity were also Jewish, and we have their testimonies.

Okay, good for you, but like I was saying, there are still credible people who say that Jesus wasn't a savior. Not to say that there aren't credible people who say he IS a savior. Please stop quoting scripture at me, it's not doing you any good.

Tj3 · Oct 14, 2007, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by retsoksirhc

Okay, good for you, but like I was saying, there are still credible people who say that Jesus wasn't a savior. Not to say that there aren't credible people who say he IS a savior. Please stop quoting scripture at me, it's not doing you any good.

The point is, anyone can believe what they want but that does not make it true. You can believe as you wish, but are you the font of all knowledge? No. So we need to go to other sources, and when we have the word of God, and prophetic statements that go back hundreds or thousands of years prior to the birth of Christ, giving details prophecies that were fulfilled by Christ which undeniable refer to Him as God, then it because the Bible vs your word.

retsoksirhc · Oct 14, 2007, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

The point is, anyone can believe what they want but that does not make it true. You can believe as you wish, but are you the font of all knowledge? No. So we need to go to other sources, and when we have the word of God, and prophetic statements that go back hundreds or thousands of years prior to the birth of Christ, giving details prophecies that were fulfilled by Christ which undeniable refer to Him as God, then it because the Bible vs your word.

The same can be said for the bible, though. You can believe what you want, and if you choose to believe that what is in the bible actually happened, then go right ahead. Nobody can stop you. I never said I was the front of all knowledge. I'm not. I don't believe the bible is either. If you do, that's fine, but quoting scripture from the bible at me isn't going to do you any good in trying to get me to believe something other than what I do already.

Like I've stated already, I was just trying to point out that yes, there ARE credible people who say that Jesus wasn't a savior. And also, like I've said already, if you don't agree with that, it's fine, because we're each allowed to have our own opinions. It's good that you stand up for your beliefs, but please stop trying to change mine.

Tj3 · Oct 14, 2007, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by retsoksirhc

The same can be said for the bible, though. You can believe what you want, and if you choose to believe that what is in the bible actually happened, then go right ahead. Nobody can stop you. I never said I was the front of all knowledge. I'm not. I don't believe the bible is either. If you do, that's fine, but quoting scripture from the bible at me isn't going to do you any good in trying to get me to believe somthing other than what I do already.

Like i've stated already, I was just trying to point out that yes, there ARE credible people who say that Jesus wasn't a savior. And also, like I've said already, if you don't agree with that, it's fine, because we're each allowed to have our own opinions. It's good that you stand up for your beliefs, but please stop trying to change mine.

The validity of the Bible is well established. If you wish to pit your personal credibility against the Bible, then please enlighten us as to what validates your credibility, and why should we believe you rather than the Bible?

retsoksirhc · Oct 14, 2007, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

The validity of the Bible is well established. If you wish to pit your personal credibility against the Bible, then please enlighten us as to what validates your credibility, and why should we believe you rather than the Bible?

Since you're not listening, and I've said this all already, I'll just say it one last time.

1. I am not arguing against the validity of the bible. You can believe something other than what I do. I have no problem with that.
2. You are entitled to your own beliefs, and so am I. I am not trying to change what you believe, so please stop trying to shove the bible down my throat.
3. The intent of my earlier post was to inform you that there are a lot of credible people who don't believe that Jesus was a savior.

If you don't want to listen, that's fine, but this thread was an open question on who everyone believed Jesus was, and we should all be free to do so without being criticized, and without being told that our or anyone else's opinion is not credible.

I've already stated what I believe. If you want to know more, you can ask. If you want to argue, don't. I'm not responding to any more antagonistic remarks here.

Tj3 · Oct 14, 2007, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by retsoksirhc

Since you're not listening, and I've said this all already, I'll just say it one last time.

Sigh - why do some folk assume that you are not listening if you don't agree. :confused:

1. I am not arguing against the validity of the bible. You can believe something other than what I do. I have no problem with that.

So we agree that the Bible is valid. If that is the case, then you should accept use of it as a resource.

2. You are entitled to your own beliefs, and so am I. I am not trying to change what you believe, so please stop trying to shove the bible down my throat.

I don't know if you noticed, but you are on the Christianity board, so I will not stop using the Bible to validate my beliefs. If you are not comfortable with use of the Bible. I am left to wonder why you are on the Christianity board. :confused:

3. The intent of my earlier post was to inform you that there are a lot of credible people who don't believe that Jesus was a savior.

Everybody is welcome to believe as they wish, but that does not mean that all beliefs are equally credible.

If you don't want to listen, that's fine, but this thread was an open question on who everyone believed Jesus was, and we should all be free to do so without being criticized, and without being told that our or anyone else's opinion is not credible.

I listen, but unless you can validate your beliefs, then they remain solely that - your beliefs.

I've already stated what I believe. If you want to know more, you can ask. If you want to argue, don't. I'm not responding to any more antagonistic remarks here.

It is unfortunate if you cannot accept that someone might disagree with you without assuming that they are (1) not listening and (2) antagonistic. If that is true, should I assume that because you disagree with me that you are antagonistic and not listening? It goes both ways.

silentrascal · Oct 16, 2007, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by mountain_man

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...

Jesus to me, is the Jesus that the Bible tells us about, namely that Jesus is the second highest personage in the entire Universe, next to God himself. Jesus is not God himself, as the Bible plainly states, but Jesus is God's son, and its through Jesus' ransom sacrifice and shed blood that the way is open for me to have my sins forgiven by God, have a close, personal relationship with God (through Jesus, who is the mediator between God and man), and have the hope of everlasting life in the future here on the earth in paradise, enjoying perfect health forever.

To me, Jesus is our perfect Exemplar. He always acknowledged his lesser position in relation to his Father and his God, and he always referred to Him and his Word for guidance and direction, never leaning upon his own understanding. Jesus showed us the depth of not only his love for mankind, but the love he perfectly reflected from his Father. The miracles he performed during his time on earth were but a foregleam of the earth-wide miracles he will perform for obedient mankind in our near future. I certainly have a great deal of love and respect for Jesus, and not only for him but for God himself who willingly sacrificed his Son that we may have the hope of everlasting life. God, in heaven, had to watch as his only-begotten Son, was persecuted and tortured, all for the sake of God's name and for the larger scope of redeeming sinful mankind.

Tj3 · Oct 16, 2007, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by silentrascal

Jesus to me, is the Jesus that the Bible tells us about, namely that Jesus is the second highest personage in the entire Universe, next to God himself.

Phil 2:5-7
Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
NKJV

Jesus is not God himself

John 1:1-2
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NKJV

Jesus is God's son

You got one right - God the Son is the second person in the trinity.

, and its through Jesus' ransom sacrifice and shed blood that the way is open for me to have my sins forgiven by God, have a close, personal relationship with God (through Jesus, who is the mediator between God and man), and have the hope of everlasting life in the future here on the earth in paradise, enjoying perfect health forever.

The way is open, but unless you turn to the true Jesus and the true gospel, you are on your way to an eternity in the lake of fire.

Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed
NKJV

2 Cor 11:3-4
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!
NKJV

silentrascal · Oct 16, 2007, 07:04 PM

Nice try, but using a faulty Bible translation and purposely misquoting the scriptures doesn't make the trinity teaching any less ridiculous and incorrect than it already is. All it does is continue to make you look foolish.

fallen2grace · Oct 16, 2007, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by silentrascal

Nice try, but using a faulty Bible translation and purposely misquoting the scriptures doesn't make the trinity teaching any less ridiculous and incorrect than it already is. All it does is continue to make you look foolish.

Meh. I think that tj should let this one be. We all have our own opinions.

Tj3 · Oct 16, 2007, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by silentrascal

Nice try, but using a faulty Bible translation and purposely misquoting the scriptures doesn't make the trinity teaching any less ridiculous and incorrect than it already is. All it does is continue to make you look foolish.

I asked you before - give me the name of a single member of the NWT translation committee who was qualified to translate Biblical Greek and Hebrew.You make all sorts of statements, but I see that you are very slow to actually validate any of your claims.

Your accusations are only as good as the validation.