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chek101 · Sep 3, 2007, 03:24 PM

Once I was asked if I believe in God, I replied "Define God!" A reply that elicited a look of surprise. I, personally, don't buy much of what I've read in the bible since the bible was written by man. Man as you know is a cunning creature, loaded with vanity, and a war-like, pitifully God-like nature. Back when men wore thongs: sandals and leaves in their hair and where The Today Show show featured feeding folks to the lions, well... why would I believe text written by people of such a barbaric era? My opinion of the bible is that it was just another way to pen people in, keep them under control. I certainly couldn't have met any of these writers in perosn. I have to tell you, I place a whole lot of credence on body language and eye contact. Words alone don't do it for me. I need to see with my heart's eyes what's behind the words.

As to "Do I believe in God?" Yes, I do! Just not the one written about. My God is an "always was" and "always will be" kind of entity for lack of a better word. Take the universe for example: what a realm of magnificence that is... a design fully far and away above "perfect" even in the sectors where utter chaos rules. Everything about the way it works suggests a master plan, and behind every master plan, there has to be a master. Reality doesn't work any other way. At least not for us mortals it doesn't. We are limited by a myopic mortal scope. Which is why the masses NEED to believe in something "less work" like maybe... the bible - where credos are laid out for you. I am renegade in that. I believe more in what I hear coming from inside me and what I pick up in the air.

I equate the writers of the bible to modern day paparazzi or reporters; taking events, shadowing resemblance to the truth, and shaping it so it jells with their own belief system. When it is then pulp-fed to the public by the truck loads. I think I'll stand with the gut on this one. What about you? Do you really believe the stories in bible? Is that how you imagine your God? I am curious about the people who abide this typical wide-spread acceptance. Not putting the bible OR your God down, now, mind you... I'm just stating my own views on this. What's yours?

Wondergirl · Sep 3, 2007, 03:38 PM

The Bible writers didn't wear leaves in their hair (but wearing sandals and leaves in one's hair is still a fashion today).

You can believe what you want about God. We won't put down your beliefs if you don't denigrate other belief systems and others' ideas about God. "Not putting the bible OR your God down, now mind you..." -- yeah, right.

No one has the full truth. We are all searching for God in our own ways.

firmbeliever · Sep 3, 2007, 04:52 PM

I believe in an Almighty Creator, who created all things in this universe and beyond.
I believe He is One,He begets not nor was He begotten,He is unique and unlike any of His created beings.

And yes I do belong to what most call an "organised religion", a "monotheistic faith" and it has guidance for humans his/her whole life.

I do believe in the teachings of the original book revealed to Jesus (alaihi salaam),but I am not a Christian.

chek101 · Sep 3, 2007, 07:05 PM

Wondergirl... show me where I put down your religion. I gave you MY opinion about my belief which I am entitled to as you are, yours. So... show me where I said something bad about yours. I did not attack now... you did. Odd, but I have encountered many church-goers who behave this way. What does that say about your religion? At least I'm not a hypocrite. I don't have to pretend to abide by any dogma.

Wangdoodle · Sep 3, 2007, 07:30 PM

I define God as omnipotent, omnipresent, immutable, and infinite, and there can be only one infinite being, only one God. If several were to exist, none of them would really be infinite. I get this definition from what has been observed in His creation, from what He has reviled to his chosen people, and what has been written by those who, I believe, to be under the inspiration of God.

Yes, I am one of those who trust those who have gone before me. I am not afraid to “stand on the shoulders of giants”, for it does not leave me cold.

inthebox · Sep 3, 2007, 08:25 PM

Chek101:

I believe God created everything, is perfect, righteous, and loving.

I believe God gave mankind freedom to obey or disobey Him.

I believe God wants each and everyone of us to have a personal relationship with Him.
He did this through His son, Jesus Christ, who was humiliated, suffered, crucified, died, and resurrected, for the salvation of mankind.

If you desire a different angle to look at God, consider reading

Amazon.com: The Jesus I Never Knew: Books: Phillip Yancey

Grace and Peace

deist · Sep 5, 2007, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by chek101

Once I was asked if I believe in God, I replied "Define God!" A reply that elicited a look of surprise. I, personally, don't buy much of what I've read in the bible since the bible was written by man. Man as you know is a cunning creature, loaded with vanity, and a war-like, pitifully God-like nature. Back when men wore thongs: sandals and leaves in their hair and where The Today Show show featured feeding folks to the lions, well ... why would I believe text written by people of such a barbaric era? My opinion of the bible is that it was just another way to pen people in, keep them under control. I certainly couldn't have met any of these writers in perosn. I have to tell you, I place a whole lot of credence on body language and eye contact. Words alone don't do it for me. I need to see with my heart's eyes what's behind the words.

As to "Do I believe in God?" Yes, I do! Just not the one written about. My God is an "always was" and "always will be" kind of entity for lack of a better word. Take the universe for example: what a realm of magnificence that is ... a design fully far and away above "perfect" even in the sectors where utter chaos rules. Everything about the way it works suggests a master plan, and behind every master plan, there has to be a master. Reality doesn't work any other way. At least not for us mortals it doesn't. We are limited by a myopic mortal scope. Which is why the masses NEED to believe in something "less work" like maybe ... the bible - where credos are layed out for you. I am renegade in that. I believe more in what I hear coming from inside me and what I pick up in the air.

I equate the writers of the bible to modern day paparazzi or reporters; taking events, shadowing resemblance to the truth, and shaping it so it jells with their own belief system. When it is then pulp-fed to the public by the truck loads. I think I'll stand with the gut on this one. What about you? Do you really believe the stories in bible? Is that how you imagine your God? I am curious about the people who abide this typical wide-spread acceptance. Not putting the bible OR your God down, now, mind you ... I'm just stating my own views on this. What's yours?

As my name indicates I believe the tenets of deism. I don't believe God can be defined. The only thing I can surmise about God,is only, that God Is wise & powerful enough to create a universe, nothing more about God can be known. All religions, & perhaps even all philosophies are based on faulty assumptions, even myths, But personally I go by deism.

Fr_Chuck · Sep 5, 2007, 07:44 PM

I don't define God, God is not ours to "define" in doing that you are either putting limits or some tag on God that is man made.
God is more than that, more than I could think. God made all and is all, he is everything to us and has allowed us to know parts and bits and pieces of his extreme and his absolute power and might.

Wondergirl · Sep 5, 2007, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by chek101

Do you really believe the stories in bible? Is that how you imagine your God? Not putting the bible OR your God down, now, mind you ...

These are put-downs -- "do you really believe...?" (i.e. you are that stupid to believe.. ) "Is that how you imagine your God?" (i.e. that's sure a dumb way to imagine God, the way you do it... ") "Not putting the bible OR your God down... " (i.e., "Actually I am because I can't imagine how anyone can believe... "

You don't know what I believe or if I even go to church. Please don't jump to conclusions in your haste to prove your point.

Fr_Chuck · Sep 5, 2007, 08:03 PM

And I will agree with Wondergirl, your comments about "do you really beleive the stories" is an insult and from your comments appears you intended it to be. And then to further insult her with the dogma attack was uncalled for and unjustified.

I will tell you up front, you are viewed by your posts and your interaction with others. If you want to have future discussions with people, then asking about something you don't believe in, only to demean those answering will soon get you with no one answering your posts.

deist · Sep 6, 2007, 12:55 AM

I pretty much agree with Fr_Chuck's statement on God being indefinable. I don't believe the judeao/christian, or muslim views of God, so in that regard I disagree with most people.

chek101 · Sep 6, 2007, 05:16 AM

I see... so let's condemn the world for its curiosity.

firmbeliever · Sep 6, 2007, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by chek101

I see ... so let's condemn the world for its curiosity.

How do you define God?

chek101 · Sep 6, 2007, 06:27 AM

Gee... most of those who replied to my post are attacking me because I asked if they believed in the stories of the bible... forgetting that I originally asked "Define God." These people had a choice: to behave as if I insulted them, or to to simply answer my questions. They chose to be insulted. Um... turn the other cheek; does that ring a bell with anyone here? Anyway, listen, I read the bible from cover to cover when I was 10 yrs old. Why? Because it was the only book I could find in the house. At that time, it was a requirement that we kids bring in a book for reading class every Wednesday. So I lugged in this huge bible to class every reading session. And I did finished reading it from cover to cover that same year. I have to tell you, as a kid, that book scared the daylights out of me; I thought it was the scariest book I ever read and I kept reading it because typical of kids, I liked being scared. That is the impression I had of the bible. But I did like some of the psalms and had committed to memory (back then) several of them (also committed to memory, back then, the Gettysburg Address). But I never picked up the bible again since. I still have that bible by the way. It belonged to my mother. So I DO know what's in it. When you believe in a thing without question, that's called "faith." When you question that same belief, it's called blasphemy by the believers. I call it "science." There was no insult meant here, and I will not apologize for expecting to hear others interpretations. Instead, you people would rather go on the attack. Some here have answered with no malice. To those I say, "Thank you for your kind and sensible reply." One of which asked ME to define God. I already did in my opening address. God, to me, is that which all scientists seek to find... that one small equation that is the answer for "everything." Could that be "faith?" Might be. Could it be a molecule inside a molecule? Could be. I don't know, I just know it exist or none of us would be today. I believe in that. Have a nice day, people.

firmbeliever · Sep 6, 2007, 06:39 AM

Chek,
Have you thought maybe God could exist along with science and science could support a belief in a Creator?
I believe in both the Almighty creator and I do believe science helps us understand the creations of the Almighty.

chek101 · Sep 6, 2007, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Chek,
Have you thought maybe God could exist along with science and science could support a belief in a Creator?
I believe in both the Almighty creator and I do believe science helps us understand the creations of the Almighty.

Honestly, hon... no; I don't think God could exist along side ANYTHING because he/it IS EVERYTHING! You see there really truly is only ONE God... God the creator. And yes, of course science will one day support that there is a creator. As to "belief" well belief is more biological than one would think; it's a DNA thing, part of the survival of the species instinct. Knowing that, I tend to test my own assessments. I do agree though that the answer for God lies with science not with legend. Here's something you should get a kick out of; I wear a crucifix. Why? Because I know that even legend is based on a certain amount of fact. I think Jesus must have had something on the ball to have garnered so many believers. I just like what he stands for. I also like Kahlil Gibran and Lincoln. Scientist today are slowly weeding through theories, substantiating one or two as they go. It's just that I don't think this can be said for the bible.

Wondergirl · Sep 6, 2007, 08:47 AM

Chek -- "Doubt is the ants in the pants of faith." (Frederick Buechner, a lifelong Christian and a Christian author)

I'm am so glad you finally got around to giving your ideas of God. Thank you!

firmbeliever · Sep 6, 2007, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by chek101

Honestly, hon ... no; I don't think God could exist along side ANYTHING because he/it IS EVERYTHING! You see there really truly is only ONE God ... God the creator. And yes, of course science will one day support that there is a creator. As to "belief" well belief is more biological than one would think; it's a DNA thing, part of the survival of the species instinct. Knowing that, I tend to test my own assessments. I do agree tho that the answer for God lies with science not with legend. Here's something you should get a kick out of; I wear a crucifix. Why? because I know that even legend is based on a certain amount of fact. I think Jesus must have had something on the ball to have garnered so many believers. I just like what he stands for. I also like Kahlil Gibran and Lincoln. Scientist today are slowly weeding thru theories, substantiating one or two as they go. It's just that I don't think this can be said for the bible.

I agree with you, there is Only One God, the Creator!

About the crucifix.Many wear it as an accessory too.
It really does not surprise me as I am not a Chrisitian .

I believe that Jesus was born in a miracle birth to Mary (peace be upon him and her),but then I also believe in Adam,Abraham,9Noah,Moses, The thing is I do believe he was a messenger of the Almighty,but I do not believe in his being crucified or that he died for our sins.I believe he was taken up to the Almighty and he will descend at the end of times to abolish falsehood and establish the truth.

Do you also believe in the teachings of Muhammad (peace be upon him)?

chek101 · Sep 6, 2007, 11:07 AM

<<<Do you also believe in the teachings of Muhammad (peace be upon him)?>>>

I have never read the teachings of Muhammad. I have to admit though I find religions of the world interesting if only to draw parallels from. Could you enlighten me a little about Muhammad?

firmbeliever · Sep 6, 2007, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by chek101

<<<Do you also believe in the teachings of Muhammad (peace be upon him)?>>>

I have never read the teachings of Muhammad. I have to admit tho I find religions of the world interesting if only to draw parallels from. Could you enlighten me a little about Muhammad?

Here's a link that explains who Muhammad (peace be upon him) is-
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/

---------------------------------------
Here is an excerpt from an article by a non-muslim on who is Muhammad (peace be upon him).please follow link for the rest of the article
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ofprophet.html
Mohammed The ProphetBy Prof. K. S. Ramakrishna Rao, Head of the Department of Philosophy,
Government College for Women University of Mysore, Mandya-571401 (Karnatika).
Re-printed from "Islam and Modern age", Hydrabad, March 1978.
_________
The Encyclopedia Brittanica says that "Mohammad is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities".

But the success was not the result of mere accident. It was not a hit of fortune. It was a recognition of fact that he was found to be true metal by his contemporaries. It was the result of his admirable and all compelling personality.

The personality of Mohammad! It is most difficult to get into the truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes. There is Mohammad the Prophet, there is Mohammad the General; Mohammad the King; Mohammad the Warrior; Mohammad the Businessman; Mohammad the Preacher; Mohammad the Philosopher; Mohammad the Statesman; Mohammad the Orator; Mohammad the reformer; Mohammad the Refuge of orphans; Mohammad the Protector of slaves; Mohammad the Emancipator of women; Mohammad the Law-giver; Mohammad the Judge; Mohammad the Saint.

And in all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is like, a hero..

Orphanhood is extreme of helplessness and his life upon this earth began with it; Kingship is the height of the material power and it ended with it. From an orphan boy to a persecuted refugee and then to an overlord, spiritual as well as temporal, of a whole nation and Arbiter of its destinies, with all its trials and temptations, with all its vicissitudes and changes, its lights and shades, its up and downs, its terror and splendor, he has stood the fire of the world and came out unscathed to serve as a model in every face of life. His achievements are not limited to one aspect of life, but cover the whole field of human conditions.

If for instance, greatness consist in the purification of a nation, steeped in barbarism and immersed in absolute moral darkness, that dynamic personality who has transformed, refined and uplifted an entire nation, sunk low as the Arabs were, and made them the torch-bearer of civilization and learning, has every claim to greatness. If greatness lies in unifying the discordant elements of society by ties of brotherhood and charity, the prophet of the desert has got every title to this distinction. If greatness consists in reforming those warped in degrading and blind superstition and pernicious practices of every kind, the prophet of Islam has wiped out superstitions and irrational fear from the hearts of millions. If it lies in displaying high morals, Mohammad has been admitted by friend and foe as Al Amin, or the faithful. If a conqueror is a great man, here is a person who rose from helpless orphan and an humble creature to be the ruler of Arabia, the equal to Chosroes and Caesars, one who founded great empire that has survived all these 14 centuries. If the devotion that a leader commands is the criterion of greatness, the prophet's name even today exerts a magic charm over millions of souls, spread all over the world.

He had not studied philosophy in the school of Athens of Rome, Persia, India, or China. Yet, He could proclaim the highest truths of eternal value to mankind. Illiterate himself, he could yet speak with an eloquence and fervor which moved men to tears, to tears of ecstasy. Born an orphan blessed with no worldly goods, he was loved by all. He had studied at no military academy; yet he could organize his forces against tremendous odds and gained victories through the moral forces which he marshaled. Gifted men with genius for preaching are rare. Descartes included the perfect preacher among the rarest kind in the world. Hitler in his Mein Kamp has expressed a similar view. He says "A great theorist is seldom a great leader. An Agitator is more likely to posses these qualities. He will always be a great leader. For leadership means ability to move masses of men. The talents to produce ideas has nothing in common with capacity for leadership." "But", he says, "The Union of theorists, organizer and leader in one man, is the rarest phenomenon on this earth; Therein consists greatness."

In the person of the Prophet of Islam the world has seen this rarest phenomenon walking on the earth, walking in flesh and blood.

And more wonderful still is what the reverend Bosworth Smith remarks, "Head of the state as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but, he was pope without the pope's claims, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar, without an standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue. If ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by a right divine It was Mohammad, for he had all the power without instruments and without its support. He cared not for dressing of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life."
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