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It is the way you say certain things NK,it makes it sound judgemental and makes us defensive and especially when it is written word
And not being face to face it makes it even more difficult to understand some remarks you make as being non judgemental. It maybe your normal style,but some of us(me included) tend to see a bit of judgement in the way you state your opinion... :) |
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 Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I did not say you were judgemental of CBW,but see the post you gave below. If you had read the previous posts by CBW, you will notice that she mentioned her history with an alcoholic and when you said this it is putting her under the label of one who is predispositioned to become an alcohlic. "I believe that one has a genetic predisposition to addiction. To say that social drinkers are all on their way to becoming alcoholics is preposterous. Usually some psychological or genetic factor needs to be present for that to happen." And obviously anyone who has gone through such an experience will feel defensive. Do you get my point.:) |
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This whole issue has struck a serious raw nerve with CBW and as such she will defend what has been said.
To make the assumption that you will follow a parents "example" in the case is a serious leap to far. To of been trough what she has at a young age has had a massive negative effect on her when it comes to alcohol. Please remember what we both used to do for a living and even then, with it readily available the temptation was there but NEVER acted upon. I hope this clears things up. NK, as you know studies can be written/conducted to prove anything. Shame really, but there you go. |
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NK and I were presenting the "nature" side of the argument, but neglected to mention the huge effect that "nurture" can also have.
Someone who went through such a horrible event involving alcohol as CBW had will of course be at very little risk of following in her fathers footsteps, as she has been "nurtured" never to allow someone to go through what she had to go through. I think this is a large part of the misunderstanding, can we move back to the last question in this thread, where I believe firmbeliever was wondering if anyone had overcome alcoholism. |
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Quite honestly, I think I've beaten actual alcoholism.
Both of my parents were heavy drinkers and smokers. I believe it was cigarettes that took my mother too young, not alcohol. But watching them drink for so many years, I began to drink anything alcoholic when I was in the 10th grade. When I graduated from HS and moved into the adult world, that only made my problem easier to excuse. I justified my drinking by socializing with other drinkers. THAT'S many peoples problem: the "support" groups of fellow drinkers. It's legal to drink and whoop it up, and that's how we did it. I call it "social alcoholism". I feel fortunate because I began to see how my habit "required" so much of my time. I enjoyed the buzz, but not the results the next day. I've been "sober" for a long time now, but some will say I haven't won the battle: I do drink wine with meals. A 6-pack will last a week. There in lies the difference, I many peoples opinion, between social drinking and alcoholics. The bottle no longer rules my life. And I feel so much better for it. Now, I feel the need to point out while we're talking about addictions and bad habits, alcohol and drugs aren't the only addictions that can be detrimental to ones health, as I'm certain we're all aware. |
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Addictive behavior runs in my family, on both sides. Both my grandfathers were alcoholics (they're long gone now), my mom's cousin is an alcoholic, my mom's mom was addicted to pain pills many years ago, and my dad's mom has obsessive behaviors towards germs (I classify it as the same, it may not be). One of my dad's sisters is also an alcoholic, and we expect a drug user. A cousin of mine is addicted to pain pills and who knows what else. One of my brothers has fought with addictive tendencies for years; he was into drugs as a teenager, then later in life would buy a bottle of Jack Daniels everyday and drink it on his own. Other relatives are heavy smokers (despite my grandfather and aunt dying at young ages due to lung cancer). My dad never exhibited alcoholic tendencies; I saw him have the occasional beer or glass of wine, but I never saw him drunk. I think his upbringing (like CBW) with an abusive alcoholic parent kept him from doing that. My mom, I've noticed tends to drink to cope with things sometimes (her dad was an alcoholic, her mom was addicted to pain pills), and though it's not frequent, if she opens a bottle of wine, she finishes it. I drank pretty often when I was younger (it was the "cool" thing to do), but it was always socially. Now I've largely lost my taste for it, so to speak. I still enjoy a nice beer on occasion, or a nice glass of wine, but I almost never drink to the point of intoxication. It's not because of my family (at least not on a conscious level), I just really hate the hangover... Plus, my dad died of liver disease (unrelated to drinking, but still) when he was 55, so I can't look at alcohol without thinking about what it's doing to my liver. Same with cigarettes; my aunt died at 55, my grandfather at 60, both of lung cancer. It sort of takes the fun out of it when you're thinking about dead family members!
To get back to the original question about why do families drink in front of their kids, I think there is a big difference between having a drink with dinner and passing out on the couch with your kids looking on. My parents frequently shared a bottle of wine when I was a kid; it never made me want to drink, I knew that was the "adult" thing to do. I also never saw them drunk, save for one New Year's when I was about 13, and that was just my mom. When I started drinking it was because of my peers, not because of my upbringing. My father-in-law drinks beer daily (never seen him drunk either), and my sister-in-law who is 15 wants nothing to do with the stuff. Her mom offered her a sip of wine at Thanksgiving or something last year, she took one sniff and said, "Why would I want to drink something that tastes like THAT?" So really, I think it depends on the environment, and of course, the kids. There are families who have a history of alcoholism and abuse and each generation continues it. Then there are families with that history who make a real effort to break the cycle and often are successful. If alcoholism or addiction runs in your family, I think you have to make a real effort to keep it out of your life. For some that means no drugs of any kind, for others, just being aware of what and how much you are allowing into your body. |
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Firmbeliever, I have the exactly same question as you do.:)
The reason I don't drink is that I don't see any good reason to do it. If it makes me smarter or helps me be successful in my life I will do it, but it doesn't really, does it?LOL Ppl have too much desire, chase too much fun, and all want to be someone else. You don't have to drink because everyone else is doing it! I do hear of that red wine helps reduce heart problem. But right now I am working out and eating healthy, my heart is totally fine. Wait until I get old, I will problly consider about a glass of red wine only for health benefit.;) |
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Originally Posted by nicespringgirl
It is a pleasure to meet someone who shares my views on alcohol and chasing useless(harmful) fun... :) I agree with you,so many wish to be someone else, especially with regard to the enjoyment of this life,physical beauty etc. I have also heard the oldest man in Japan said that he lived so long because he never touched alcohol... :) |
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Well I was brought up with my mother teaching me that alcohol is very bad. Although my step - father likes his beer. My fathers side of the family. My Father, Grandfather and Grand Grandfather are all known as alcoholics. My step fathers side of the family are known to be alcoholics as well. I was always taught and told that it is in the family and genetically and statisticly it is better for me to stay away from it because this disease or condition is in the family.
Later in life as a late teenager I figured out for myself that the occasional drink or moderation of drink is not going to condemn me to become a drunk just because it is in the family. Well I never was a partier, never was much into alcohol but I can drink without the worry of it getting any further. I also believe that knowing and seeing what it can do to family. Marriages failing, abuse, and stealing and so much else that can come from somebodies abuse from alcohol, like a parent being an absent parent. I have learned that it should be a very rare occasion with moderation is okay. I have also seen and heard about cousins that actually got violent when drinking and got very nastful and hateful and started fights with everybody and even both of these parents drinking while leaving there baby in bed. This happened many years ago, they are both unfit and these are examples of abuse of alcohol and I think it is disgusting that they did this in front of their child. Not much of an example. Then you have certain traditions or cultures which from an early age. Have a glass of wine with each meal. This of course I feel is different from the above situation. These are my thoughts on it. We all have life lessons to learn and by knowing what my mother when through with my father, somewhat my step father and the history there, makes me know that I never want to get into that situation and I believe my mother instilled in me the right values to make sure that never happens. Joe |
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