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lacuran8626 · Aug 29, 2007, 02:16 PM

I have a relative, Cathy, with whom I am very, very close but I have never really connected with her spouse, nor have our other family members. Cathy is a very successful woman and both she and her husband are well educated and productive. They are both a little eccentric which is positive and creative. She can dial back the eccentricities to be appropriate to various social expectations in the business world and in social situations, such as how to dress and appropriate manners and things of that nature. Her husband insists on "being himself", which consists of being nice and considerate of other people for the most part, but one area in which I feel he's very inconsiderate is that he refuses to dress in a presentable manner, or to pay any attentio to table manners when he is with the rest of us. He is an embarrassment in public, and unpleasant to eat with because his appearance and manners are gross.

Cathy wants the rest of us to accept him, no strings, regardless of whether he continues these behaviors or not. I've told her I accept him as a person but do not like these behaviors and likely never will, so his insistence on continuing them stands in the way of our becoming closer than we are (he and I, not Cathy and I). I've also told her that I don't feel it is important how close he and I are as long as he meets with her needs and expectations. She said that I hurt his feelings by disapproving of his appearance and manners.

I think her view, and his, is sophomoric about this. I think he is old enough (in his 50s) to know that appearance does matter in social relationships, as do table manners, and if he wants to social relationships to improve, he needs to up his game and literally clean up his act. This has set off quite a firestorm and short of telling her that his appearance and behavior are fine, which I simply can't honestly do, I see no way to smooth her feathers. Insight? Thoughts? Ideas?

JohnSnownw · Aug 29, 2007, 02:20 PM

Yeah, I think we need a little more info concerning these manners and dress customs he doesn't adhere to. Does he eat with the wrong fork? Not put a napkin in his lap? Does he not wear a jacket to a fine restaurant? What?

Homegirl 50 · Aug 29, 2007, 02:32 PM

He's her husband, if he doesn't bother her, don't let it bother you. Maybe he has a problem with you guys, but looks over it.
I say chill out.

lacuran8626 · Aug 30, 2007, 02:08 PM

He wears sleeveless shirts all the time - regardless of where we are (some have armholes that go down to the waistband of his pants). He wears his pants about 3" too long and lets the backs wear out so there is a semi-circle tear of chewed up, filthy fabric following behind him. He has wiry gray hair which he wears ala Einstein and his clothes are all filthy dirty - covered with motor oil, paint, etc. Most of the time we say nothing about it and ignore his appearance completely but a few times we've asked him to change when we were going to a nice restaurant, for example. He generally does not comply or makes such an issue of it, it's hardly worth the bother.

As for table manners, he puts eyedrops in at the table, blows his nose, belches and once even took a tissue which he had already used, and for some unknown reason, dipped it into my sister's coffee and then used it to moisten his lips. My mother asked the waitress to get my sister a fresh cup of coffee and this launched an argument because my sister felt this gesture was a criticism of her gross husband (of course, it was - and rightly so).

Again, we normally put up with it but admittedly we travel in some social circles and go some places as a family where this type of dress is simply not appropriate or even allowed, so we end up not inviting them because we know it will be an issue.

My sister feels we expect her husband to "dress up". We only want him to put on clean pants that are not torn (jeans or even sweat pants are fine), and a clean shirt (a t-shirt would be fine) with sleeves without any obscene phrases printed on it, and to either cut or tie his hair back (he literally looks like a clown it's so out of control) when he comes for a special holiday meal at our homes or if he goes somewhere with us in public to eat. We would settle for the clean shirt and call it a day, but this seems to be too much to ask so we no longer ask. We've dropped it and don't bring it up again, but when confronted about whether our views have changed on the matter, we say, "No, but let's move past it. If you're happy, we're happy. His appearance is no reflection on anyone but himself."

Homegirl 50 · Aug 30, 2007, 02:11 PM

Either deal with it, or don't go any place with him. Like I said before he's her husband, if it doesn't bother her, don't let it bother you.

lacuran8626 · Aug 31, 2007, 05:06 PM

Thanks. That's the stance I've taken but I've been criticized for it recently, so appreciate the added insight.

Fr_Chuck · Aug 31, 2007, 05:54 PM

While I don't believe in being gross in public, if that is how he wants to dress and he is happy with it, "GOOD FOR HIM" if others don't like it tough, Like others said, you don't have to invite him if you don't want to, I am sure he could care less.

Dennis777 · Aug 31, 2007, 06:06 PM

Hello.

I have the feeling he has his own reasons he acts this way. It seems he is trying to get a reaction from your family when he pulls this. If I had to bet on it I would say he feels like the rest of your family are stuffy and he is rebelling. You can do one of two things...

One is for you or a person in your family to take him aside where they can talk alone and ask him to meet everyone half way. I have the feeling that will not work unless the reason for him doing this has been met.

OR

Everyone stop going out in public with him. If they come to dinner at your house eat outside on the ground so he can see that if he is going to act like this then you all will act the same way. In other words "if you can't beat him join him". Who knows you might have fun.

Dennis777