[jillianleab]

Jillian always seems to have the "right" answer.

It's because I'm so smart; S-M-R-T! I mean, S-M-A-R-T! :D

[J_9]

It's because I'm so smart; S-M-R-T! I mean, S-M-A-R-T! :D

Yes, girl, you are!! :D :D :D

And level headed too!! :p

[talaniman]

As a man I'm glad it ain't my call. But I stand behind my woman's choice. That doesn't mean I agree, or like it.

[Hope12]

Not all abortions are because men want the girls to have them.

This is true but it stll is murder. No matter what, not you nor I nor anyone else has the right to take the life of another. Abortion is just the worlds way of placing the wrong actions of another on the innocent. Their solution is to rid the situation of the innocent one so the causer of the situation in the first place can do their own thing. Where is the fairness in that kind of solution. Isn't that only fair to those able to protect themselves. What about the helpless human waiting to be born, who protects them?
Jadona2006

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

How far back do you want to take this argument then?
When the egg begins dividing?
When the sperm reaches the egg and begins fertilization?
The point of ejaculation?
The point where the egg and sperm are created?

Is the morning-after pill murder? Is wearing a condom? How about having a vasectomy?

[americangayboy]

Hope, you cannot murder something that is not conscious. There is not evidence that a fetus can feel pain until 24-28 weeks.

I agree with the post above. When does it stop becoming murder? Are the billions of men who masturbate murderers? A sperm could turn into a life, too, so is each ejaculation of semen a massacre?

When it comes down to it, it is better for society to allow abortion; however, I do agree that we should do all we can to prevent abortion through education.

[Synnen]

Hope, while you are entitled to your belief that a clump of cells is a valid human being--it is just that, a BELIEF.

I personally believe that until that clump of cells is a fetus, and is viable outside of its mothers body, that it is JUST A CLUMP OF CELLS.

I am trying desperately to get pregnant. I placed a child for adoption. I STILL believe that choosing abortion is no more callous and selfish in some cases than choosing to get cancer removed from your body. When one chooses abortion they are choosing to get rid of a GROWTH that is UNWANTED and can affect one's health and sanity.

I am not imposing my beliefs on you. If you don't want an abortion, by all means don't get one. I didn't get one either, because I thought that little life should have a chance. I don't, however, run around imposing my beliefs on other people because I disagree with them. Legal abortion = SAFE abortion, and there are enough valid reasons to get an abortion that it needs to stay legal. Of course some people abuse that--just like people abuse the Welfare System. That doesn't mean it should be gotten rid of entirely because SOME people abuse it.

If you don't like abortion - GREAT! It's a free country, and luckily, you can believe what you want.

If you start trying to make it illegal, I'll be forced to stand up to you and fight to keep it legal.

As to your argument that women who choose abortion are murderers--are you going to start putting them on trial for that? And if that's the case, are you going to try women who have miscarried for manslaughter (which is, of course, accidental death)?

You can not possibly imagine what goes through the mind of a woman who chooses abortion. Please stop assuming that everyone is just aborting fetuses left and right because it's "inconvenient". Every woman I know that has had an abortion, did it for health reasons.

I'll pray for you, since you obviously have problems with the whole idea that God will judge men and women for their hard choices, not you.

[shatteredsoul]

I remember driving by an abortion clinic with people standing outside with their signs and their retoric and full of rage. I stopped and tried to see what the commotion was. They were all trying to stop a woman from entering the clinic and she was crying so hard. I had to get out of my car and defend her. This situation frightened and appalled me. These people were so cruel and angry. I don't know how they can preach in God's name. IT IS NOT AN EASY DECISION FOR ANYONE TO MAKE. Being a parent is the most difficult and challenging thing that anyone can ever do. To dictate your beliefs and your values to others is not only counterproductive, it is also often hurtful. NOt only do you disagree with abortion, but you put everyone who has one in the same category. If one does believe that life begins at conception, that is an OPINION> If one doesn't it is a different OPINION. We are not going to change our beliefs because of YOUR OPINIONS. IF you want to save someone, than help the children that are already alive without parents. There are plenty of them around to choose from. Trying to have control over someone's else body, that is the most invasive and unhealthy thing to do. You have a right to your beliefs, so do those that think and choose differently. God gave us our own bodies, and our own ability to decide what to do with them. There are limits to what is appropriate and what is ethical. The standard by which you apply it, is subject to each individual's perception of what they believe in. Nobody is saying abortion is the answer, we are saying it is an option that has been used since the beginning of time and to ensure the safety of women, we must keep it safe and legal. Women will abort babies whether they are legal or not. It isn't a matter of opinion, it is a fact. That fact makes it our responsibility to make sure it is done in a way that is safe for the woman, and that it occurs BEFORE viability.

[J_9]

Hope, you still have not answered this question. Is it murder if the child will be born dead? Don't you believe that in medical situations that it sometimes may be necessary?

See the baby in this picture? It is a real baby with absolutely NO chance for survival.

Let me ask if aborting a fetus with anecephaly is considered murder. Anecephaly is a cephalic disorder that results from a neural tube defect that occurs when the cephalic (head) end of the neural tube fails to close, usually between the 23rd and 26th day of pregnancy, resulting in the absence of a major portion of the brain, skull, and scalp. Infants with this disorder are born without a forebrain, the largest part of the brain consisting mainly of the cerebral hemispheres (which include the isocortex, which is responsible for higher level cognition. The remaining brain tissue is often exposed - not covered by bone or skin.

These children typically do not live one hour after birth, if they live this long.

Is this murder if the woman chooses abortion then?

Does no one believe there may be medical reasons for abortion?



Is it murder to have an abortion when you know that this baby will not live but a few hours at most?

[talaniman]

I think its very clear that there can be some valid reasons for terminating a pregnancy, and we must also recognise that there are some very selfish ones also. They shoot horses to keep them from suffering, and doctors can go to prison for helping the terminally ill die painlessly with dignity. Life may not have the same value to all and it may not be fair to label all females that have abortions murderers, but I think the facts will support that most of them, the selfish or foolish ones, can wear the label, and I can make no excuses for that, that they have brought knowingly on themselves. My apology for broadbrushing ALL females.

[startover22]

Ok, so then there are those babies that are doomed inside us... they are born... and with mercy and miracles... they begin to eat, drink, sleep, grow, talk, walk, tell you they love us... ahhh... the stories I have heard and the things I have gone through to see these miracles... You just never know... this is a very hard subject because by no means would I want to see a child die...
EDIT::::
Especially one that may live a good life... A good life can be different for all of us...
But for the doomed and cannot be born... I would understand...

[Synnen]

"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion" - When the Anti-Choice Choose

To sum up a terrific article... to most people, the only moral abortion is their OWN abortion.

Until you are faced with the choice you DO NOT KNOW how you will decide. Period. Many anti-abortionists and right-to-lifers have had abortions, their only horror was the idea that their peers would find out.

[startover22]

This is very true... what you say Synn..

[Maranatha]

It takes a sperm and an egg. Life begins AT CONCEPTION not merely ejaculation as in masturbation. There is a fetal heart beating audibly on ultrasound around 8 weeks. There is a human life there. It is a miracle! For those that have had abortions, God wipes the slate clean and does not carry around a list of people who have made wrong choices. ALL of us have and still make wrong choices every day. Some abortions are medically necessary. Others are not. We can't judge others.

[americangayboy]

I argue that abortion should be unrestricted until there is evidence that the fetus feels pain.

[Hope12]

Hope, we all have choices to make in life, that is what it is all about. We choose our reality, our responses, our lifestyle, our outlook and our beliefs or perspectives. This is what the gift of free will is. This is what we were born with. For you to take your own choices and explain them as God's truth, means that it is only your perception of what God wants for us.This eliminates anyone else's views, experiences, or beliefs.
Moreover, To equate the right to choose with hatred and violence, assumes that one must be hateful and violent to make such a choice. YOu don't have to agree with it, or accept it as right, but when you direct that to everyone else, this becomes judgmental.

What you believe is right and wrong is different than what others believe. This is also based on previous experiences, dynamics and consequences that you have had in the past that have led you to believe what right and wrong is.
IF God created us with the ability to make our own choices, don't you think we ourselves would have to determine which ones are "good or bad" or "right or wrong"? What if there really isn't any absolutes and it is all about perspectives? Well that would mean that God would love us regardless of our choices, actions or beliefs about what is morally ethical or acceptable. The power is not on some throne waiting to judge us, the power is within. WE can either take responsibility for it, or put it on God.

We are all given life, regardless of our circumstances, and what we do with it, is up to us. (For the most part)
Further, I think that your are well intentioned and you speak just as effectively as I do. I just don't think you realize that when you take what you believe as true and right, and want everyone else to view it the same way, this is viewed as judgmental. This is because you think their perceptions are flawed and yours is the correct one. That is what YOU believe. IF they don't have the same upbringing, experiences, knowledge, belief system or religion as you, how can you expect other people to think just like you? Many people will agree with you and that is great, but you are trying to reach out and tell everyone that abortion is murder and it is your duty to tell all of us. Well, you can tell us your opinion, but it is no one's duty to make anyone believe anything. I don't think I have anything more valuable to offer to this post, than anyone else, but I just feel like standing up for those of us who do think of this subject much differently than you, and for many different reasons.
All in all, I think you want to help and be compassionate and loving. However, the way you are presenting your opinion, makes it difficult for those that think different to feel that it isn't an attack on our perception or beliefs. We have to embrace what we don't understand or agree with, to be truly compassionate. To say that you are being compassionate, but than imposing your views as the only correct one, is hyppocritical. It isn't your responsiblity to make everyone think or be like you. You can live out your truth in your own life and respect that of others at the same time. I think you believe you are saving someone out there from making a choice that you see as a horrible situation. YOur intention is good. IF I personally read your post and was dealing with this decision, it would make me feel more resolved in making my own choice of what to do with my life, my body and my future. I don't feel it is anyone's else's business but mine and the person I am involved with. This is my own perspective but I don't expect anyone else to agree with it or accept it as their truth. That is the difference between you and I. I believe we both want to help people and do right by others, I just don't impose my morality on others and then justify it by my religion or what God laws are.

I don't think God will punish us, we punish ourselves. YOu said it best, we are our own worst enemy. Not God. So, we all have to answer to ourselves. WE have to look in the mirror and face who we really are. That is who we have to answer to here. If we live a life of integrity and try to be the best that we can be, what else can we do? WE are human after all. Born to make the mistakes, feel the effects, and travel the journey of life, and realize the goodness within. Regardless, of our individual choices.

Hello Again,

What I have stated in the past is my opinion and how I express it is the best way, I know how too. If one takes offence because of my opinions and expresses that offense as if I am judgemental and wanting everyonue to change to my way, are they not being judgemental of me?

I have free will as you or anyone else does, therefore, I express my opinion freely as you do, and very well I must say!

When we come on to websites such as this where a variety of opinions and cultures and religious and none religious views are expressed, we need to understand that not everyone will agree with one another. You and I my friend disagree. Why?

1) I never intended to offend anyone.
2) What I have stated is from my heart and I have expressed it freely.
3) If anyone takes offense then they are not agreeing with my opinion and can express that.
4) To say I am judgemental and then turn around and judge me as, and I qoute: "For you to take your own choices and explain them as God's truth, means that it is only your perception of what God wants for us.This eliminates anyone else's views, experiences, or beliefs."
In your above statement you are judging. I only state what is in my heart. As to my beliefs, I understand that not all will believe as I do, yet you judge me as thinking that way. When a person truly believes in their heart something and truly feels it will benefit others, are they really being judgmental to express that? I say no, for if I have something or know something that will benefit others and I believe it with all my heart, would I not be selfish and unloving not to share it?
5)
You stated:"All in all, I think you want to help and be compassionate and loving. However, the way you are presenting your opinion, makes it difficult for those that think different to feel that it isn't an attack on our perception or beliefs. We have to embrace what we don't understand or agree with, to be truly compassionate."

First of all the online dictionary says to embrace something is "3. a close affectionate and protective acceptance; "his willing embrace of new ideas"; "in the bosom of the family"

If one totally disagrees with someone elses opinion, why would they embrace it? Isn't that hypocritical? Is it not better to just be honest with others and state your heartfelt opinion? Why just follow the crowd because that is what makes you get excepted by others?

Many here have expressed there opinion in favor of choice. That is the right and part of their free will. I have done the same except I stated what I feel God has told us in his word the Bible. If that has offended you please take my deepest apology for the way I have expressed, but I have not learned any other way but honety from my heart. I though do not apologize for my opinion or my beliefs. I can only state what is in my heart and my concern according to my beliefs for others. If I "embrace" something I truly feel is wrong and against God as I personally and truly believe, then I would be a liar and a hypocrite and not truthful to my faith in my God.

Again please except my apologies ifI offended you with my expression, that is never my intention, nor anything that would enter my heart.

Thank you and have a good day.
Hope12

[J_9]

Hope, I do see your point here. Yet you continue to avoid the issue of my question. I asked if you believe that there may possibly be a medical need for abortion. Did you read that?

If not, please do, it's up there, and respond back, I would like to hear your thoughts on what you would do if you had that baby inside you.

[startover22]

J, how far along is that baby in the picture you posted..

[J_9]

Did you even read this before giving the reddie? Imagine if this was your baby.

Hope, you still have not answered this question. Is it murder if the child will be born dead? Don't you believe that in medical situations that it sometimes may be necessary?

See the baby in this picture? It is a real baby with absolutely NO chance for survival.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Let me ask if aborting a fetus with anecephaly is considered murder. Anecephaly is a cephalic disorder that results from a neural tube defect that occurs when the cephalic (head) end of the neural tube fails to close, usually between the 23rd and 26th day of pregnancy, resulting in the absence of a major portion of the brain, skull, and scalp. Infants with this disorder are born without a forebrain, the largest part of the brain consisting mainly of the cerebral hemispheres (which include the isocortex, which is responsible for higher level cognition. The remaining brain tissue is often exposed - not covered by bone or skin.

These children typically do not live one hour after birth, if they live this long.

Is this murder if the woman chooses abortion then?

Does no one believe there may be medical reasons for abortion?



Is it murder to have an abortion when you know that this baby will not live but a few hours at most?
__________________

[J_9]

J, how far along is that baby in the picture you posted...?

That baby is 24 weeks post conception and has absolutely no chance of survival if it even makes it as far as term.